Overextension, Governing Capacity, WC and my France run

[ProfCC]

Just as a quick note:
The Spanish mission reward is a Force Union causi belli; this lets you get them in an union for 60% warscore. The Polish mission reward is forced vasselage causi belli; this makes them a vassal, at 50% province cost for them. So as long as you have enough absolutism/warscore cost reduction that their total annexation cost isn't above 200%, you can vassalize them in one war. Do note that in doing so Lithuania becomes an independent nation (PUs of a PU target become your PU, subjects of a vassal peace deal break free).

I did my catholic One Faith starting as France and then forming other nations for mission rewards. Notables for WC/One Faith are Sardinia-Piedemont, Austria, and Prussia (+4 total missionary conversion strength, +10 administrative efficiency, and diplomatic annexation cost reduction), ending on Rome for coring cost reduction. Of course, a One Faith is possible without any culture/tag shifting shenanigans. It just takes a bit more effort.

And I just read about your recent run too! As with Bokor, well done!! Sounded like you had some challenges that you effectively overcame.

I've seen those missions, and wondered about them. So, with Poland (maybe the Spain one?...or perhaps it was Russia?), you declare on them using that specific cb? Then you win (obviously) and then in the peace deal, you choose vassal? In other wars, I feel like every time I've look at that option, its greyed out due to being more than 100%. Is that due to the size of the target country, or is that due to me not having "enough absolutism/warscore cost reduction"? Maybe both?

 

[bokorthedust]

And I just read about your recent run too! As with Bokor, well done!! Sounded like you had some challenges that you effectively overcame.

I've seen those missions, and wondered about them. So, with Poland (maybe the Spain one?...or perhaps it was Russia?), you declare on them using that specific cb? Then you win (obviously) and then in the peace deal, you choose vassal? In other wars, I feel like every time I've look at that option, its greyed out due to being more than 100%. Is that due to the size of the target country, or is that due to me not having "enough absolutism/warscore cost reduction"? Maybe both?

It's mostly because of the country's size, but mission given Subjugation CBs have a capped warscore cost of 90% as of the 1.32 patch, so you'll be able to vassalize Poland in the war no matter their size.

The PU CBs have similarly a fixed warscore cost, the ones from mission trees are 60%, and those gained from the more traditional Claim Throne interaction are capped at 84%.

 

[BladvakRO]

Oh, no I've played almost every game till the end. I'm more of a "completist" in that regard with games, one of the reasons I find rpg games tough because I get stuck in the side quests. LOL.

But with EU4 I've not done that many, so please go on about the end game. I do remember the Imperialism cb (but not so much about the colonialism cb others mentioned). But that's not till the 1700s, right? So, someone can adequately conquer....well, how much? Can you be less than 1/2 finished with a cb, and still conquer the rest in 121 years?

Read this for the info on the CBs. This wiki is pretty much the go-to if you have any questions about mechanics of the game, or countries, trade, etc.

Casus belli - Europa Universalis 4 Wiki

eu4.paradoxwikis.com

Colonialism CB is quite strong for ceding provinces covered by it in the Colonial regions , or for Ceding Colonial Zones altogether (so as Castille if you fight Portugal with Brazil as a colonial nation, you can ask Portugal to cede Brazil Colonial Region to you, and you get a lot of land for a big discount).

Force Union CB and Vassalization CB are also quite powerful because they are (now) capped, at 90% for Vassalization and at 60% for Personal Union. As France, you have a mission to vassalize Poland or Commonwealth, so if you ally them earl game, you can vassalize them midgame with no worries, when they would require a lot of wars if you would be using the Conquest CB.

Picking the CB is sometimes even more important than the war by itself. In a Developer stream, an alliance of players picked a Superiority CB against the Ottomans or against Prussia. Needless to say, you don't do that, especially against a player with a militarized or powerful country. Superiority CB works wonders against Ming at low mandate, but using Superiority CB against France or Prussia is just asking for troubles.

 

[MatthewP]

I have two things to add to this discussion:

1) 100%, historical play and imagining you’re actually a real nation goes out the window for a WC. I’ve played most of my EU4 in the “reasonable historically plausible decisions” mode, and I think it’s the most fun way to play the game. But everything gets boring, and trying the gamey resource management WC style has extended the fun of the game for me.

2) For fun and learning, an example of silly tag switching I’m doing in my current game:

-I started as Majapahit. Their mission tree gives a vassalization cb on the whole world, so I can make Ming my vassal in one war if I want.

-I religion flipped to Sunni.

-I used my magic cb to vassalize delhi, which controlled 3-4 normal wars worth of northern India, even though I didn’t border them at the time.

-I’m going to conquer some land from the Timurids, make it a state, and flip to afghani culture, or maybe some other in the same group.

-meanwhile I’ll diplo annex Delhi.

-at this point, I can form Mughals, who are probably the strongest WC formable. I’m hoping (though haven’t tested) that I’ll keep my super vassalization cb.

-as Mughals, I’ll make all the Delhi land states (already full cores) and make my old states in Indonesia trade companies. This should keep my economy intact, especially once I lock down some India trade nodes.

-then I will religion flip to Hindu. I can do this because I’ll be plurality Hindu after annexing Delhi, which is Hindu. I had to be plurality Muslim originally to convert.

-because I was majapahit, I can get a special Hindu deity that lets me access all Hindu and Buddhist wonders. (I’m also crossing my fingers this stays after the religion flipping).

Now I’m Mughals with way more wonders than they’re supposed to have, a whacky powerful cb and like a billion missionaries. I’m going to try and do a Hindu one faith.

anyway, none of this makes sense but it can be a lot of fun to plan and execute.

 

[ProfCC]

I promise I do read the wiki, but so often it feels too sparse in its explanation. Eve

I have two things to add to this discussion:

1) 100%, historical play and imagining you’re actually a real nation goes out the window for a WC. I’ve played most of my EU4 in the “reasonable historically plausible decisions” mode, and I think it’s the most fun way to play the game. But everything gets boring, and trying the gamey resource management WC style has extended the fun of the game for me.

2) For fun and learning, an example of silly tag switching I’m doing in my current game:

-I started as Majapahit. Their mission tree gives a vassalization cb on the whole world, so I can make Ming my vassal in one war if I want.

-I religion flipped to Sunni.

-I used my magic cb to vassalize delhi, which controlled 3-4 normal wars worth of northern India, even though I didn’t border them at the time.

-I’m going to conquer some land from the Timurids, make it a state, and flip to afghani culture, or maybe some other in the same group.

-meanwhile I’ll diplo annex Delhi.

-at this point, I can form Mughals, who are probably the strongest WC formable. I’m hoping (though haven’t tested) that I’ll keep my super vassalization cb.

-as Mughals, I’ll make all the Delhi land states (already full cores) and make my old states in Indonesia trade companies. This should keep my economy intact, especially once I lock down some India trade nodes.

-then I will religion flip to Hindu. I can do this because I’ll be plurality Hindu after annexing Delhi, which is Hindu. I had to be plurality Muslim originally to convert.

-because I was majapahit, I can get a special Hindu deity that lets me access all Hindu and Buddhist wonders. (I’m also crossing my fingers this stays after the religion flipping).

Now I’m Mughals with way more wonders than they’re supposed to have, a whacky powerful cb and like a billion missionaries. I’m going to try and do a Hindu one faith.

anyway, none of this makes sense but it can be a lot of fun to plan and execute.

I hope you more about this in a separate thread. I wish I could just sit alongside you and watch, asking a million questions. You know I appreciate your insights and thoughts, so would be so interested to see you do all this. And yes, it’s certainly gamey, but like you said, it’s a new thing to try. I still think you should be allowed to try, but not given any bonuses from a previous culture or nation that you were.

The culture stuff….that’s an entirely new college class I suppose I need to learn more about. I know in all of my runs so far, I didn’t even promote the number of cultures I was given to do. Always forgot about it, and except for noting that I could not promote advisors from the wrong culture, I could see nothing obvious that I needed. Now I’m reading about taking provinces within a culture, taking a single province in some far distant land of a certain culture to then grab those provinces simply because they are the same culture….yikes, my head is exploding.

 

[ProfCC]

Read this for the info on the CBs. This wiki is pretty much the go-to if you have any questions about mechanics of the game, or countries, trade, etc.

Casus belli - Europa Universalis 4 Wiki

eu4.paradoxwikis.com

Colonialism CB is quite strong for ceding provinces covered by it in the Colonial regions , or for Ceding Colonial Zones altogether (so as Castille if you fight Portugal with Brazil as a colonial nation, you can ask Portugal to cede Brazil Colonial Region to you, and you get a lot of land for a big discount).

Force Union CB and Vassalization CB are also quite powerful because they are (now) capped, at 90% for Vassalization and at 60% for Personal Union. As France, you have a mission to vassalize Poland or Commonwealth, so if you ally them earl game, you can vassalize them midgame with no worries, when they would require a lot of wars if you would be using the Conquest CB.

Picking the CB is sometimes even more important than the war by itself. In a Developer stream, an alliance of players picked a Superiority CB against the Ottomans or against Prussia. Needless to say, you don't do that, especially against a player with a militarized or powerful country. Superiority CB works wonders against Ming at low mandate, but using Superiority CB against France or Prussia is just asking for troubles.

I promise that I do consult the wiki, but the explanations there are always so sparse. I just wish it would have more explanation and verbiage to fully develop whatever it is they are trying to tell you. The CB wiki? Man, I had no idea there were that many choices. What does it mean though to be at that 60% level? Does that mean once the ticking warscore gets to 60% I can assume that I will be able to get whatever the cb was about?

see…it just doesn’t fully make sense to me. I’m just used to thinking in terms of taking all of the target’s lands, getting the score to a very high position, and then getting out of the war picking from whatever options it gets me. I am sure that I’m missing options. And after perusing the wiki, I KNOW there’s more options than I was aware of.

 

[BladvakRO]

I promise that I do consult the wiki, but the explanations there are always so sparse. I just wish it would have more explanation and verbiage to fully develop whatever it is they are trying to tell you. The CB wiki? Man, I had no idea there were that many choices. What does it mean though to be at that 60% level? Does that mean once the ticking warscore gets to 60% I can assume that I will be able to get whatever the cb was about?

see…it just doesn’t fully make sense to me. I’m just used to thinking in terms of taking all of the target’s lands, getting the score to a very high position, and then getting out of the war picking from whatever options it gets me. I am sure that I’m missing options. And after perusing the wiki, I KNOW there’s more options than I was aware of.

60% warscore is the cost that will need to be "paid" to get what you want during the peace negotiations.
Reparations' warscore cost is a flat 10%.
Vassalization warscore cost, if the CB was Vassalization CB, is capped at 60%. If the size if the country is small, the vassalization warscore cost can be actually lower than 60%.

Form Union warscore cost, if the CB was Form Union CB, is capped at 60% (I think). (You can get this CB through missions)
Restore Union warscore cost, if the CB was Restore Union, is capped at 85%. (You get this CB if the junior partner stopped being a junior partner)


Now, if the things are going your way (the rebels are spawned in enemy lands - the desire for peace associated with this type of event varies depending on the number of provinces controlled by the rebels, the enemy no longer has control of their capital - static 5% positive desire for peace, low manpower - dynamic desire for peace, someone is making gains - positive or negative desire for peace, etc), you can look to either achieve your 60% Vassalization warscore goal at lower or higher than 60% actual warscore.
Do you have the DLC where you can actually see all these little things when you hover your mouse over the Red "x" or Green "V" that appears during the peace offer?

The ticking warscore is capped between -25% to +25%, depending on who actually accomplished the wargoal.

-at this point, I can form Mughals, who are probably the strongest WC formable. I’m hoping (though haven’t tested) that I’ll keep my super vassalization cb.

-as Mughals, I’ll make all the Delhi land states (already full cores) and make my old states in Indonesia trade companies. This should keep my economy intact, especially once I lock down some India trade nodes.

-then I will religion flip to Hindu. I can do this because I’ll be plurality Hindu after annexing Delhi, which is Hindu. I had to be plurality Muslim originally to convert.


Now I’m Mughals with way more wonders than they’re supposed to have, a whacky powerful cb and like a billion missionaries. I’m going to try and do a Hindu one faith.

Changing the RELIGION GROUP - Muslim (not sure if religion altogether or not, I know you can be Ibadi Mughals, which is how you easily do One-Faith) or the GOVERNMENT FORM - Monarchy - disables the Mughal Diwan (2nd tier godlike reform unique to the Mughals).
So I WOULD NOT change the religion if playing as Mughals as you so describe.

 

[MatthewP]

I hope you more about this in a separate thread. I wish I could just sit alongside you and watch, asking a million questions. You know I appreciate your insights and thoughts, so would be so interested to see you do all this. And yes, it’s certainly gamey, but like you said, it’s a new thing to try. I still think you should be allowed to try, but not given any bonuses from a previous culture or nation that you were.

Maybe I will at some point. I've thought a lot about doing an AAR (reading them is how I learned the game) and I've even started writing a couple times, but I just haven't managed to get going with it. Life gets busy and it takes a lot longer than playing and commenting on the forum.

The culture stuff….that’s an entirely new college class I suppose I need to learn more about. I know in all of my runs so far, I didn’t even promote the number of cultures I was given to do. Always forgot about it, and except for noting that I could not promote advisors from the wrong culture, I could see nothing obvious that I needed. Now I’m reading about taking provinces within a culture, taking a single province in some far distant land of a certain culture to then grab those provinces simply because they are the same culture….yikes, my head is exploding.

Honestly I think culture is fairly peripheral most of the time. It matters for manpower but in single player it's just never the best use of resources to try and max it out IMO. I forget to promote cultures too, though I remember advisors and do check for right culture if I need to (~= can afford to) promote them.

But for forming nations it suddenly matters a lot simply because the requirements in most cases are to be a certain culture and control certain provinces.

Changing the RELIGION GROUP - Muslim (not sure if religion altogether or not, I know you can be Ibadi Mughals, which is how you easily do One-Faith) or the GOVERNMENT FORM - Monarchy - disables the Mughal Diwan (2nd tier godlike reform unique to the Mughals).
So I WOULD NOT change the religion if playing as Mughals as you so describe.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong, unless there's some subtlety I'm missing. Here is another run where I did it (not the whole thing, just Mughals -> Hindu):

Maybe it changed at some point? This was only a few weeks ago so I think it's current.

 

[Orkonkel]

It's mostly because of the country's size, but mission given Subjugation CBs have a capped warscore cost of 90% as of the 1.32 patch, so you'll be able to vassalize Poland in the war no matter their size.

The PU CBs have similarly a fixed warscore cost, the ones from mission trees are 60%, and those gained from the more traditional Claim Throne interaction are capped at 84%.

There are two different PU causi bellis.

Force union, which is at 84% (and I think also at higher AE). You gain this by using the Claim Throne political interaction on someone with your own dynasty and a weak heir or no heir.

Restoration of union, which you get on any nation breaking off a personal union relationship (they having a negative opinion of you or high liberty desire).

You gain restoration of unity CB from mission, which is not the same as forcing an union. It has the 60% warscore and lower AE.

 

[ProfCC]

Maybe I will at some point. I've thought a lot about doing an AAR (reading them is how I learned the game) and I've even started writing a couple times, but I just haven't managed to get going with it. Life gets busy and it takes a lot longer than playing and commenting on the forum.


Honestly I think culture is fairly peripheral most of the time. It matters for manpower but in single player it's just never the best use of resources to try and max it out IMO. I forget to promote cultures too, though I remember advisors and do check for right culture if I need to (~= can afford to) promote them.

But for forming nations it suddenly matters a lot simply because the requirements in most cases are to be a certain culture and control certain provinces.


I'm pretty sure this is wrong, unless there's some subtlety I'm missing. Here is another run where I did it (not the whole thing, just Mughals -> Hindu):

View attachment 796988View attachment 796989

Maybe it changed at some point? This was only a few weeks ago so I think it's current.

Totally understand the effort needed for an AAR. I did a few back with EU2, and you not only have to take time to write it up, but you need to take solid notes, and pictures, often. And the more involved it is, like what you are doing, the more your mind focuses on the game, not on writing some report. LOL

Anyway, good luck and at least maybe give a large-scale overview when you are done.

 

[ProfCC]

Started to write a new thread, but thought better to give an update here. It’s the 1670s, and I suddenly have a problem with my heir…in that I don’t have one. The king is 72, so don’t have long now. And my current king and queen have terrible numbers, LOL. So, their son was also terrible, so about 20 years back I dropped him. Had tried once before and that time I got an heir. Not this time….

So, while I was fighting one war, suddenly the game announced that the king had died, but then I had a new monarch…and the Spanish alliance ended. No warning, no suggestion of it. I have no idea what happened. As I looked at his stats, which were good, I noticed that it appeared that he was of a Russian family. So…does that mean that since my monarch died with no heir, the rng just gave the throne to Russia…and in doing so, Spain was dropped?

Well, I saved it, but reloaded the last January, finished the war…and now am not sure what to do. I mean, I know I can used the button to basically “buy” an heir. So, I am trying that but when I do, I see the obvious low legitimacy percentage.

My question, then, is what is better to do? Or, what other step should I take at this point?

I got here because I was tired of having a 0 or 1 in admin points with the monarch. I feel the clock ticking down and still have so much territory in central Europe to take. I sure thought I’d be done with this part of my plan by now; still, it is what it is…and I remain aware that it takes admin points to core lands to avoid the Oe. So…I want a better monarch.

thoughts?

 

[MatthewP]

Your diplomatic relations should show if you’re in a PU with Russia. You also wouldn’t be allowed to declare war. But I don’t think you are, because it shouldn’t be possible if you are at war.

As to the Spanish alliance, various things could have happened. Maybe they have the same Russian dynasty and were able to claim your throne. Or maybe they had low relations, and ending your (I’m assuming) royal marriage dropped them below zero causing the alliance to break. Probably there are other possibilities.

As to what to do, it depends how much you need the Spanish alliance. If you don’t need it (and you’re not somehow in a PU), keep the new ruler. Having Russia’s dynasty could also let you claim their throne down the road and get them as a junior partner, which would almost certainly be better than having Spain as an ally.

 

[Dominion]

lategame you should be maxed out at prestige at all times anyways. Prestigefarming is not an issue. You get a good heir/ruler by constantly killing heirs until you hit a good one.

So, I am trying that but when I do, I see the obvious low legitimacy percentage

You don't care.

Lategame mil points are the least valuable resource and the impact of low legitimacy is negligible so you can either completely ignore it or pump it up until you're satisfied.

 

[BladvakRO]

Having a Russian Heir is better than any minimal drop in whatever points it might take to get back on track.
The true question is: can you take on Russia & allies and enforce a PU with Russia if it comes to that?
Because we are probably talking about a country anywhere between 1000-2000 dev at this point, probably on the higher end.
Lategame, getting a PU over Russia is like the holy grail of Christian countries, since it would cost so much otherwise to conquer Russia (read - a lot of wars of conquest).

 

[ProfCC]

So much continues to escape me, at least on the aspect of being able to plan ahead (kind of the point of strategy); I used to think I was good at these games. LOL

So I took some screenshots because I know you experts see far more than I. I don't understand why the Russian noble house is next in line for me. But I also don't understand the PU missions like the one I could get with Spain once I complete the Naples mission. I'm close on that, but I had been waiting to make sure ae didn't get too high (so sort of bouncing all around the map). That Spanish mission talks about getting the PU...so I assume that means that cb you all talked about where I could beat them in a war and then, through peace, force the PU? And it would only be like 70% war score...regardless of their development?

I'm asking because if I start with the Russian on the throne, and for whatever reason Spain dropped out of my alliance (and I was at war, as you can see...I'm fighting a reconquest war in the north, mostly so I could hopefully then continue the fight with the Two Sicilies in the south later)...well, in that scenario, I could choose to allow Spain to stay out, rival them, and go ahead with the major conquest of Iberia into a PU. My worry with that is that I've never really been able to pull that off long-term. LOL I'm sure that because I don't understand, somehow after I have the PU, I am doing something wrong whereby the union never happens. Or maybe I don't understand union...I thought what it meant was upon the Junior partner's current monarch's death, the land would just switch colors and become mine. I was watching a video of someone playing France, and they had Burgundy in a PU and that's what happened there...but maybe I misunderstood and it only means....well, I don't know what it would mean if it didn't mean that country just becomes your country (your color).

Anyway, traveling this weekend so wanted to throw up these pictures so you saw what I saw...and then maybe could help me understand first what happened, and then the better choice. Sounds like, from you kind folks already replying, I can do whatever I want (as usual--LOL). I don't really have any plans, nor think there is time, to try and go to war with Russia or make them into a PU. Heck, what it all really sounded like to me when it first happened was that somehow I WAS THE JUNIOR partner. And that I didn't want; made me think I had really messed up by not going ahead to just force-add a new heir.


Here is the current king

Here is the Russian on the throne--the years are different only because the first screenshot was after I finished the northern war. In the shot below, you'll see I am still in the war.

Then these next shots are the Russian's diplo screen (that may not be important to you) and the country comparison screen. Thanks as always for your thoughts and insights.

 

[bokorthedust]

Whenever your ruler dies without an heir, 3 things can happen, depending on your prestige, royal marriages and diplomacy:

1) If you are a less prestigious country, and have a royal marriage with another country, you might straight up fall under a PU with that country, regardless of the two of you sharing a dynasty or not. If you have a PU yourself, this cannot happen.

2) If you have high prestige, or you already have a PU, and have a royal marriage/multiple royal marriages with countries, the royal house from the biggest of your marriage partners (based on development), will spread to your country. This is what is happening in your game, Russia has the most development out of your marriage partners, so the Russian dynasty will spread to your country. You won't be under a PU, there's an alert you'd get for that if that were the case. Note that a royal marriage is also required, so if you don't want the Russian on your throne, you can break the RM before your ruler dies. However, that would mean in your case, that instead the Spanish dynasty will spread to you, so you'd have to break that marriage too if you don't want that either. If you have no sovereign marriage partner, a local nobel would become the new ruler.

3) If you already share a dynasty with one of your marriage partners, you might fall under a PU if your prestige is low. If they decide to claim your throne, and you die heirless, you'll definitely fall under a PU in that case, and one of your would be overlord's rivals will get an opportunity to contest the PU and take you for themselves.

Before you reloaded, you lost Spain most probably because your royal marriage broke when your ruler died (they break upon the death of the party who offered it), and their relations with you dipped into the negative, which instantly breaks any alliance.

Regarding your mission tree PU CB, the warscore cost will be 60%, and there will be a 'Force Union' peace deal option you can take, which will make then your junior partner regardless of their size. Keep in mind that in order to keep the union, you'll need to have positive relations with them by the time your ruler dies, otherwise they'll break free upon your ruler's death. They'll get a -100 modifier when you force them into an union, but that ticks away relatively quickly, the bigger hurdle would be the negative relations they'll get from the AE cost of forcing the union. But you can improve relations to 200 once they are a subject, can use great power influence on them and give them a gift, and also subsidies, plus you'll get some positive modifiers for being the same dynasty. You went Protestant in this game, I presume they stayed Catholic, so you might get negatives from differing religion and depending on what Council of Trent modifiers were chosen that might get aggravated or eased a little. All in all I think you can keep them, if you time the war with a fairly young ruler (though RNG can always troll you), and making sure they don't have too much additional AE with you before you declare the war, the amount you get from forcing the union will be enough to overcome. But they are pretty far away from your direction of conquest, and you are/were allies for the most of the game, so you shouldn't have too much AE accumulated with them anyways.

Finally, regarding Burgundy, and PU integrations: the Burgundian Inheritance is a special mechanic and doesn't work like normal PUs do. Basically if upon Charles the Bold's death they'll either remain independent (unlikely in the case of the AI), or choose one of 3 possibilities to 'protect' them, i.e become their junior partner: 1) the HRE emperor, if they like him, and hate France; 2) France, if they like him and hate the HRE emperor; 3) someone they have a royal marriage with, provided Burgundy hates both France and the HRE emperor. After they become a PU, there's an event that will fire, representing the real life death of Marie of Burgundy, Charles' heir, and the country that got the inheritance will instantly integrate Burgundy. Normal PUs don't work that way, in order to properly integrate them into your country, first at least 50 years have to pass after they've become a junior partner. After 50 years passed with the union being continuous (they never declared an independence war or became free upon a ruler death with negative relations), you can either inherit them when your ruler dies (only true for small(ish) PUs, because the chance of inheriting them depends on your diplomatic reputation, which raises your chance, and their size, with every province they have lowering the chance by a flat -1%), or integrate them like you integrate a vassal. Given Spain's enormous geographic size, you'll never be able to inherit them, and you'd have to diplo annex them if you want their lands to be directly under your control.

 

[ProfCC]

“their relations with you dipped into the negative, which instantly breaks any alliance.” Well that makes sense….I suppose this is noted somewhere by the game, but goodness seems like the game could warn a guy. And your assessment is right. When I reloaded, I went to their diplo screen to see if I could figure something out and relations had gotten down to single digits. That’s on me for not checking, but we had just been a war together and I even gave them a province in the war conclusion.

Guess I need to figure out what I want to do. I can’t do the force-Union mission till I complete the Two Sicilies, and I wonder if that would suddenly kick up their ae with Spain. And I‘m not sure I want to go that way anyway as the OE is looming in the near future. Again I had assumed I’d be done with Central Europe already and could then pick and choose my path, but that’s not going to happen. I am pretty sure that OE and I are our only rivals, but I kind of doubt that they’d declare on me. Still, they are coming up and will probably eat the rest of the Balkans unless I intervene with alliances and such.

Not complaining…I like the mental challenge. Just not sure in this new setting what would be best…to just stick with the Russian lineage (love the admin points) or try to rng my own ruler? If I do the Russian, then I do lose Spain which will set me on a path of probable conflict. I certainly don’t want the OE and Spain allying against me. And a war with Spain already seems daunting due to the fact that 80% of the new world are their colonial nations. I feel confident that I could take them, but just trying to imagine the best way to allocate armies over that vast size, and thinking about how certainly long it would take…makes me flummoxed a bit. And especially with enemies that would be in my back door in Europe and the OE….

 

[Guibou]

Just not sure in this new setting what would be best…

Why not both ? Even if you go with the Rurikovitch you can still claim Spain afterward. With the mission tree, you don't need to share dynasty. You will get a special CB no matter what.... well i guess not if you convert to Sunni lol.

And a war with Spain already seems daunting due to the fact that 80% of the new world are their colonial nations. I feel confident that I could take them, but just trying to imagine the best way to allocate armies over that vast size, and thinking about how certainly long it would take…makes me flummoxed a bit. And especially with enemies that would be in my back door in Europe and the OE….

You can just ignore the new world, if you still only have 10-20 provinces in Colombia they will get like 5% warscore of it. The war goal will be to take their capital. So full occupy mainland and wait for the ticking warscore to go up. You will get the 60% and low anthusiasm easily. If they have small allies that you can 100% occupy, keep them in the war, it will drive the score even higher.

 

[ProfCC]

“Why not both ? Even if you go with the Rurikovitch you can still claim Spain afterward. With the mission tree, you don't need to share dynasty. You will get a special CB no matter what.... well i guess not if you convert to Sunni lol.” You are right @Guibou , but if I keep the Russian lineage, then I have to accept the loss of Spain as my ally because I had failed to pay attention to my relations. ‍

When I restarted, I was at war, so I kept expecting at any moment to have the same thing happen. I immediately improved relations with Spain in hopes I could keep them. The war ended in a year and still my old monarch was still living. So, I suppose I could just go on from this point with no heir, assuming that when the monarch dies I’ll still get the Russian heir but hopefully I would not lose Spain since the relations had improved.

So my question wasn’t about whether or not to pursue the Spain claim, but whether I want to go ahead without them which, I feel like, would change my assumed course of action. Of course, life is like that, so maybe it’s the right thing to confront….not what I planned but what fate brought my way. Maybe I won’t actually complete the reinstatement of Charlemagne’s Empire, but instead I will have a more successful “war of Spanish succession” than Louis XIV did. Just not sure yet….

 

[MatthewP]

“Why not both ? Even if you go with the Rurikovitch you can still claim Spain afterward. With the mission tree, you don't need to share dynasty. You will get a special CB no matter what.... well i guess not if you convert to Sunni lol.” You are right @Guibou , but if I keep the Russian lineage, then I have to accept the loss of Spain as my ally because I had failed to pay attention to my relations. ‍

When I restarted, I was at war, so I kept expecting at any moment to have the same thing happen. I immediately improved relations with Spain in hopes I could keep them. The war ended in a year and still my old monarch was still living. So, I suppose I could just go on from this point with no heir, assuming that when the monarch dies I’ll still get the Russian heir but hopefully I would not lose Spain since the relations had improved.

So my question wasn’t about whether or not to pursue the Spain claim, but whether I want to go ahead without them which, I feel like, would change my assumed course of action. Of course, life is like that, so maybe it’s the right thing to confront….not what I planned but what fate brought my way. Maybe I won’t actually complete the reinstatement of Charlemagne’s Empire, but instead I will have a more successful “war of Spanish succession” than Louis XIV did. Just not sure yet….

I wouldn’t underestimate your ability to conquer the rest of Central Europe with Spain and Russia as junior partners fighting in all your wars. So long as you’ve been working on your absolutism that is. Given your goals, getting those PUs seems pretty perfect. You don’t need to ever annex them and can just have probably the two strongest non-ottoman countries helping you the rest of the game (once you spend a few years improving relations etc. to get them loyal).

edit: honestly, the game breaking the spanish alliance for you is probably a nudge in the right direction. I’d lean into it, assuming you can get the PU cb reasonably soon. As someone else said, you should be able to enforce the cb just from taking their European holdings, and even if not, just do that first and plan your colonial invasions at your leisure.