Outcasts of Ionia: Shadows of Empire VIP 0.4b

[Falconhurst]

Of all civilized nations in VIP 0.4b, the lowest initial ranking belongs to the Ionian Islands, two tiny islands off the Greece mainland held as satellites of the United Kingdom. The Ionian Islands have minimal income, as the small population produces only a trickle of low-grade fish. The islands are backwards and have only two industrial technologies and no factories or clerks. As satellites of the United Kingdom, they can declare war only on the UK, which would likely lead to rapid annexation. Although the population is Greek, the Ionian Islands have no mainland cores.

This AAR will document an Ionian attempt to become the #1 world power. Unlike my prior AARs, I will attempt to avoid any major exploit. There will be no "beads for Manhattan" trades for land, for example. I consider an "exploit" to be any of the numerous tricks listed on the VickyWicky page on exploits. Expansion will be accomplished by old fashioned blood and steel and not across the bargaining table. While there may be some elements of my strategy that some players might not wish to personally adopt because of historical considerations or personal taste, I do not believe that they can be considered to be exploits. Some players are prone to label any strategy that seems unsuitable to their taste as an "exploit," but none of the 17 exploits officially recognized by VickyWiki will be used. Most will agree that this is a fairly comprehensive list.

You can expect a real and prolonged struggle in this AAR. Here are some of the features you can expect as Ionia struggles to escape the yoke of poverty, isolation, backwardness, and British hegemony, and strives to achieve world prominence:

- There will be no factory building until at least 1850
- No railroad building until at least 1852
- Negative prestige for 20+ years at some of the lowest values you may have ever seen
- A world rank at or below #200 (out of approx. 216 nations) for 15+ years
- Vast land and sea battles with the major European powers, with resounding defeats as well as victories
- Frequent rebellions and revolts
- A backwards military (only the starting 3 military techs with no military research for at least 15-20 years).
- No alliances for at least 15 years, and possibly much longer.
- This will all be done while keeping the badboy score at or less than five for at least twenty years, and less than two most of the time.

Sit back and enjoy the ride...to victory or defeat

 

[unmerged(32548)]

Falconhurst, you are so very good at winning. This is probably going to go the same as your other ones, just very slowly - which must be most tedious for you, as most of us barely have the patience to finish a regular game, Ionian Islands or no.

You have proven time and time again you can win. But how well can you lose?

Once you are done with this, I would like to see if you could take a country of immoderate size and potency - the British Empire, say, or Russia - and attempt to reduce it by concentrated incompetence so quickly and thoroughly as possible, falling to the very bottom of the heap without being annexed outright.

It would be something of a challenge, would it not?

EDIT: And don't the Greeks annex Ionia by event in the 80s anyway?

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

I would have said "good luck ,youll need it" but then i remember my own Ionian island game wich ended as quite the power.With so few pops it's easy to get a very high techspeed ,and from then you can trade tech for land.Brittian can be beaten with next generation ships.

And don't the Greeks annex Ionia by event in the 80s anyway?

Not if they don't exist.

Once you are done with this, I would like to see if you could take a country of immoderate size and potency - the British Empire, say, or Russia - and attempt to reduce it by concentrated incompetence so quickly and thoroughly as possible, falling to the very bottom of the heap without being annexed outright. It would be something of a challenge, would it not?

Killing youre own country is easy.As for a challange ,try a country that is on the brink of being invaded by a superior country ,like one of the step dummie's ,or Krakow (though that has potential) ,or Georgia (yet even more potential) Vietnam (unciv to) or finally Zulu. (poor unciv vs UK = pain)

 

[Falconhurst]

I would have said "good luck ,youll need it" but then i remember my own Ionian island game wich ended as quite the power.With so few pops it's easy to get a very high techspeed ,and from then you can trade tech for land.Brittian can be beaten with next generation ships.

As I already stated in the first post, there will be no tech for land trades, nor any other kind of exploits. Not so easy any more

As for a challange ,try a country that is on the brink of being invaded by a superior country ,like one of the step dummie's ,or Krakow (though that has potential) ,or Georgia (yet even more potential) Vietnam (unciv to) or finally Zulu.

I have played Krakow and Georgia extensively, and have a Krakow AAR here on the board. Georgia and Krakow are both very easy if you trade techs for land. Ionian Islands however is much harder if you do not trade tech for land, because as a satellite of the UK, you cannot DOW other countries and do not have the independence that Georgia and Krakow have to pursue their own foreign policy.

Wiping away all of the main exploits -- no tech for land, etc. - makes an Ionian Island game extremely tough indeed. And I will add one point to my above list of limitations: not only will there be no trades for land throughout the entire game, but there will be no trades for tech for a minimum of at least 18-20 years.

With all these limitations, what would your strategy be?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

The Ionian Islands, ah yes. They were the first country I played Victoria with. Which wasn't a real smart choice of course.

Good luck, I will be following this.

 

[unmerged(44784)]

I hope to see an Ionian empire soon.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

As I already stated in the first post, there will be no tech for land trades, nor any other kind of exploits. Not so easy any more

I have played Krakow and Georgia extensively, and have a Krakow AAR here on the board. Georgia and Krakow are both very easy if you trade techs for land. Ionian Islands however is much harder if you do not trade tech for land, because as a satellite of the UK, you cannot DOW other countries and do not have the independence that Georgia and Krakow have to pursue their own foreign policy.

Wiping away all of the main exploits -- no tech for land, etc. - makes an Ionian Island game extremely tough indeed. And I will add one point to my above list of limitations: not only will there be no trades for land throughout the entire game, but there will be no trades for tech for a minimum of at least 18-20 years.

With all these limitations, what would your strategy be?

Good ,that indeed makes it ,somewhat ,harder.

What would i do? convert my few pops very soon for fast tech. (meh clergy would do fine) Go all naval tech and genneraly make sure that you have a superior navy for atleast a few years (like being only one with ironclads or cruisers) scout for unoccupied islands of UK and block those when you go to war with them with youre navy (as well as home islands) ,let youre only devision capture numerous islands while ships keep the blockade ,capture its colonie buildings to.When finally independant and having superior navy the rest is easy.

That said ,i wonder where youll get the money to build those ships... Are you going to rely solely on income from the islands?

Btw ,doesn't sattelite status end when you have a revolution?

 

[Blodwen]

Btw ,doesn't sattelite status end when you have a revolution?

You've probably got his plan worked out there. Disband the army, get a revolution going, then start using superior teched forces to landgrab.

 

[Falconhurst]

You've probably got his plan worked out there. Disband the army, get a revolution going, then start using superior teched forces to landgrab.

And how would you suggest doing a landgrab while keeping BB always < 5 (and mostly <2) for over 20 years?

The revolution is a great idea, one that might have helped me. No, Ionia became independent the old-fashioned and recklessly stupid way: DOW'ing the United Kingdom.

I also learned something new in the early years of Ionia. Even for techs you have discovered, the inventions almost never occur unless you have positive prestige. Forget superior tech: Ionia is so far behind the rest of Europe even 15 years into my AAR that it is painful. Not only have no techs been acquired from other nations, but Ionia has received almost no benefit from the techs it has researched on its own because of negative prestige. A political assassination here or there, a diplomatic scandal, etc. and a tiny nation like Ionia gets into a crippling prestige hole. Negative prestige means, for the most part, no diplomacy and no inventions.

And I do not own a single combat vessel. Artillery is almost unattainable on the world market -- even 15 years into the game, I haven't seen it offered yet, at least not to nations of my low prestige.

Other guesses ?

 

[Lurken]

Other guesses ?

Console? ;P

 

[Akaki]

"Ooh, show me heaven..." or at least some screenies.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

And how would you suggest doing a landgrab while keeping BB always < 5 (and mostly <2) for over 20 years?

- uncivilized (but not annex)
- defensive war?

also learned something new in the early years of Ionia. Even for techs you have discovered, the inventions almost never occur unless you have positive prestige.

yup ,negative prestige = big bummer ,but then political assasinations are much less frequent given full crime spending ,something i know in such cases is crucial.

Well ,with negative prestige i would have a very hard time to

Forget superior tech: Ionia is so far behind the rest of Europe even 15 years into my AAR that it is painful. Not only have no techs been acquired from other nations, but Ionia has received almost no benefit from the techs it has researched on its own because of negative prestige. A political assassination here or there, a diplomatic scandal, etc. and a tiny nation like Ionia gets into a crippling prestige hole. Negative prestige means, for the most part, no diplomacy and no inventions.

Would have been a total different case if you had positive prestige... (next time try to avoid bad events ,if possible)

And I do not own a single combat vessel.

No combat vessels ... But i do not doubt that you have transports.And who needs ships if UK is youre fried ,or maybe some other country that offered you an aliance

Now if England offeres you an alliance and you cooperate lets say during the balkan conflict ,you might find yourself in war with Russia ,en England almost always invades in the Crimea ,and thats a nice coal producing area full of greeks ,now if you can only just land first and take control?

still probably lots of other possibilety's ,maybe immigration to a certain rich colony. Or just cross youre fingers and pray to Jebus?

 

[Falconhurst]

Or just cross your fingers and pray?

Yes, that's about right. And one of your guesses was warm.

Now it's time for the show to begin.

I'll let the pictures do the talking and fill in the details later.

 

[Falconhurst]

 

[Falconhurst]

 

[Falconhurst]

Brief Wrapup

This post is reserved for a strategy description to be filled in later.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

3 bankrupcy's ...... i see economy doesn't matter anymore in the bid to empire.

Ok youre just a lucky man UK didn't annex you there when you revolted.So Jebus exists afterall.

I see the Italian minor's are youre usual conquesting starting point.After that is pretty straitforward Unciv bashing.Still well done.But i still think beating them technologicly is possible.

 

[Falconhurst]

Economy does matter a great deal. Bankruptcy = -300 prestige for a standard or "small" bankruptcy, and -900 for the third or "major" bankruptcy. The hole of -2000 prestige was certainly not easy to climb out of and required two costly and extended wars with the German alliances. The twenty-year prestige hole that resulted in no inventions was a direct result of bankruptcy, in addition to being militarily too weak to take on major powers and thus climb out of the prestige hole. It becomes a bit of a vicious circle after a while: the lack of prestige limits options for development, while war requires high expenditures that perpetuate the bankruptcy cycle.

The invasion of uncivilized nations was all about economy, trying to accumulate a critical mass of productive provinces and income from taxes and tariffs to compete on the world stage.

 

[unmerged(44784)]

How did you conquer that much with so small population?! :wacko:

 

[Falconhurst]

7 cavalry divisions from Ionia (entire population) -> invade Italy and annex Lucca, Parma, Modena (would've annexed Tuscany also except that they did not honor the defense pact). These are POP-rich provinces.

Mobilize Italian soldiers and demobilize Greek POPs, convert to clergy (for research)

The Italian cavalry was the backbone of the invasion force for Morocco, Egypt, Japan, Korea, Persia, and Southeast Asia. I eventually got 35 cavalry divisions out of those few Italian provinces

I wanted regular quality troops (not native or colonial troops), so all divisions had to be Italian. Some soldiers among the Korean and Japanese POPS were used for reinforcements, but not for unit creation.

It's easy to conquer the world this way mobilizing POPs on a rolling basis, with POPs from conquered civs becoming your soldiers to invade their neighbors in turn, while protecting your national culture POPs. The Ionian army had no Ionians in it at all (except for leaders) after the Italian conquest.

The importance of leaders also cannot be underestimated. Good leaders offer so many substantial advantages. Especially in this case, where my troops were primitive, I had to have some good leaders going up against the Austrians and Germans. The use of cavalry instead of infantry (I NEVER use infantry, too slow) and the conversion of some large national pops to officers (for leaders) were absolutely critical to give the Ionians a chance against enemies that were technologically far superior. But you pay for it. Cavalry upkeep is very expensive, hence the 20+ years of destitution and abject poverty for all of Ionia.