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Out of Supply combat problem

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Jun 30, 2004
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Under 1.06, while playing Japan, Everytime I attack into China, after the first day, my units get a -20 out of supply penalty. I am shipping plenty of supplies to the coast so they should be supplied. When my units are under attack, it says they are supplied. The same thing happens to the U.S. troops when attacking in France. They move to England first and then attack from there so as not to get a huge logistics distance penalty. After taking the first province, when attacking into another, I get the -20 out of supply penatly which I shouldnt since I am sending a ton of supplies to the provinces held in France. What is the deal? That -20 penalty is huge....Is there a way around it? Is it going to be fixed? The game is unplayable for several major nations as it is.
 
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Fiendix said:
cancel all the convoys you have. Then set up a convoy from Koshu to Japan that ships everything out. I tried it on my second comp and it worked. Dont create the one to shanghai as the supplys appear in Koshu which creates the whole problem again. I am using 1.06c so maybe there was a change..

F

EDIT if anybody else could test this it would be great...
Click to expand...

I will check this out when I get home tonight. I am dying to play Japan on the hardest level but cringe on having all the convoy related problems including this one.
 
Just take all supplies from Koshou, cancel convoy Hiroshima-Koshou and DO NOT send any supplies with convoys from Japan to China/Korea. Your units will be in supply you can reinforce them and they dont have -20% lack of supplies penalty.

Still if you really like chalengous games play with lack of supplies.

So i checked and Fiendix conclusion is working properly.
 
Sounds like there is a problem with the convoys then. That's great that there is a workaround for the Japan situation. However there are similar situations elsewhere that don't have any work around. I hope Paradox makes fixing this bug one of thier top priorties, since (IMO) it is one of the most significant ones in the current version of the game.
 
3cengel3 said:
However there are similar situations elsewhere that don't have any work around. I
Click to expand...

I really dont think so - I have been trying to make the bug appear in various scenarios and have not managed to get it to appear unless I did not send enough supplies. Of course I did not play with ever nation and every scenario (sorry guys dont have the time) so if somebody does get it to appear - and cant figure why it happens - I would be happy to check on it - just pm and send me the save.

I think a lot of people forget that:
1) The more troops you have the more supplies/convoys you need to send.
2) If you reinforce you may use up your supplies so that you have 0 by 23:00 which causes the error to appear.
3) If you run out of supplies in the depot the whole area will be out of supply.

Just have to be more carefull.


F
 
Yeah, I have confirmed this Japan thing too. It matters on whethers supplies are in koshu on the day of the attack. If no supplies exist, there is penalty. Allowing supplies to flow the day after the first attack will not change the lack of penalty and the vice versa. This will not work on the islands in the Pacific though. No convoy means death for the island garrisons. It is a decent work around that I will use now. Thanks for the incite Fiendix
 
M@drox said:
This will not work on the islands in the Pacific though. No convoy means death for the island garrisons. It is a decent work around that I will use now. Thanks for the incite Fiendix
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That's true i also found that on some pacific islands i lack supplies.
 
Just to make it clear as it seems that some people were creating convoys to china thus creating the problem again:

1) Cancel the convoy from Japan to Koshu
2) Add to the Koshu -- Japan convoy supplies
3) Make sure the supply depot in Koshu is drained of supplies
4) DO NOT set up any convoy with supplies to mainland China. They will still be in supply.

The -20 should not be there anymore.

cheers

F

PS EDITED THE ORIGINAL POST
 
Fiendix said:
Just to make it clear as it seems that some people were creating convoys to china thus creating the problem again:

1) Cancel the convoy from Japan to Koshu
2) Add to the Koshu -- Japan convoy supplies
3) Make sure the supply depot in Koshu is drained of supplies
4) DO NOT set up any convoy with supplies to mainland China. They will still be in supply.

The -20 should not be there anymore.
Click to expand...
Your workround sounds like an exploit to me. And will it survive a save/reload cycle - maybe it's like happens with encirclements?

I was playing the 41 scenario as Japan last night. The depot in China is a different province in that scenario. I was having trouble keeping that full of supplies but kept increasing supply production and the convoy size and seemed to be getting there. I'm going to keep playing the game straight as the out-of-supply issue doesn't happen much when I do that.

Andrew
 
Colonel Warden said:
Your workround sounds like an exploit to me. And will it survive a save/reload cycle - maybe it's like happens with encirclements?

I was playing the 41 scenario as Japan last night. The depot in China is a different province in that scenario. I was having trouble keeping that full of supplies but kept increasing supply production and the convoy size and seemed to be getting there. I'm going to keep playing the game straight as the out-of-supply issue doesn't happen much when I do that.

Andrew
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exploit - hmm - if Koshu was not bugged in the first place that would be an exploit - getting rid of the -20% bug is not an exploit in my book. And yes it does survive a save/reload cycle.

F
 
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Colonel Warden said:
I was playing the 41 scenario as Japan last night. The depot in China is a different province in that scenario. I was having trouble keeping that full of supplies but kept increasing supply production and the convoy size and seemed to be getting there. I'm going to keep playing the game straight as the out-of-supply issue doesn't happen much when I do that.

Andrew
Click to expand...


Actually I just tried the 41 scenario - the bug is still there unless you ship the supplies out of the province you are refering to (the one above shanghai).
When you defend the bug is never there.

F
 
Japan supply

I did not have time to post this earlier, but after subsequent testing, your fix works quite well Fiendix.

Note that it is also valid for oil.


Thanks!

Camrik
 
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I have not tested this, so this is just an observation which is not confirmed. But what I observe is that your FIRST convoy to a beachhead is the "benchmark" which determines if there is enough supplies available or not. If you increase your convoy size because you landed more units, they will get the "out of supply" penalty, even if there are enough convoys to avoid the problem since your first convoy is used for the calculations. What I have done which works for me is to create a very large convoy, much more than needed, and let it run for a day or so. Then I reduce it to a more resonable size. This prevents the out of supply penalty. If your first convoy is too small, then prehaps you can cancel it and receate it much larger, and that might clear the penalty.
 
A continuation of this problem is the appearance of the -20% issue this time in Normandy. I did a dday on the germans with my british troops (39 sc) and had the -20% when I attacked. However i loaded up an old game (36 sc) and the bug was not there in exactly the same attack and the same situation... confusing :confused:.

If anybody minds please see if they do have it appear in the 1936 scenario (just make sure you are supplied correctly) with the brits or USA as I would love to get to the bottom of this....

F
 
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Fiendix,

There definately are other situations where this problem manifests itself where your workaround will not work. For instance, I was playing USA in the 36 scenerio. Argentina goes Axis, after USA joined the allies I successfully invaded Argentina from a base in San Juan. Now I had a ton of convoys going into both San Juan and one of the provinces I captured in Argentina. Yet every time I attack a province in Argentina I suffer the -20 out of supply penalty. When I defend a captured province in Argentina my forces are ALWAYS.

Your solution ONLY works if a force is able to trace a land route to a freindly OWNED (not just controled) province. Yet there will be many situations, like the one I just described where an attacker won't be able to do that and must rely on convoys for supplies..... and it is quite obvious that there is something broken in how convoys calculate and deliver supplies to units that are on the attack.
 
Fiendix said:
I am not really sure that that is the cause - I have had ddays without the penalty in europe as the USA/UK and I was not linked to any friendly owned prowinces..

F
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I don't experience the problem when doing an amphibous attack....but that's only because units who do an Amphib attack are automaticaly assumed to be in supply for 1 week. I ALWAYS seem to get it when attacking out of a beachead if I'm not linked by land to a freindly owned province (never on defense though).

In your D-day scenerios you were still in supply after attacking out of the beachead? And you weren't linked to any liberated provinces by Land? (i.e you were invading Italy or some other axis owned territory exclusively)

What was different about your '39 scenerio then your '36 one?

Have you ever experienced the problem when you weren't relying on a convoy/beachead as a supply source?

There definately seems to me something buggy about how supply lines are traced from convoy/beachead supply sources.

As you said yourself, in your Japan situation if you reestablish a supply convoy to any controled province in China, the problem returns again. If you have no supply convoys to China then the problem does not occur (which means your troops in China MUST be drawing supply from some freindly owned province on the mainland, else they would be out of supply)

Anyway that's the only consistancies I can identify.

Is it possible that when being supplied out of a beachead troops will only draw 1 days (or hours) supply at a time and that when troops enter an enemy province to attack, they consider the province they are in as part of thier supply route to the beachead (and thus blocked because it is enemy territory)? That would explain why it occurs only on offense and never on defense. It would also explain why we might not see it on units that are supplied only from freindly land sources (because they always draw full supplies, and battles don't last longer then thier 2 week max supply capacity so we never see them run out). Anyway, just a thought.
 
I had a dday (denmark) and moved inland towards berlin with the US and the -20% bug was not there. I will have to sit down and do some tests this week to come up with my consistencies..

the japan situation may be a little different - if you noticed in the previous patches manpower was not recovered during battles by the Japs - now in 1.06/c it is. Thus the supply issue may be linked to that.

UK and USA dont recover loses in europe - so I think the error is somewhere there.. although only Johan can answer that question.

F
 
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