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Out of Supply combat problem

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Under 1.06, while playing Japan, Everytime I attack into China, after the first day, my units get a -20 out of supply penalty. I am shipping plenty of supplies to the coast so they should be supplied. When my units are under attack, it says they are supplied. The same thing happens to the U.S. troops when attacking in France. They move to England first and then attack from there so as not to get a huge logistics distance penalty. After taking the first province, when attacking into another, I get the -20 out of supply penatly which I shouldnt since I am sending a ton of supplies to the provinces held in France. What is the deal? That -20 penalty is huge....Is there a way around it? Is it going to be fixed? The game is unplayable for several major nations as it is.
 
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Has anybody noticed that the -20 is only there when u attack? I just had a test game with Japan and it seems that the bug is only there when I attacked..

Furthermore I am really confused what causes it - I have a feeling that something messes up this the stockpiles ad transports..

F
 
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Fiendix said:
Has anybody noticed that the -20 is only there when u attack? I just had a test game with Japan and it seems that the bug is only there when I attacked..

F
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Er not exactly. Try seeing if the enemy attacks after moving 2game weeks into one of your provinces. Of course not Europe. It SHOULD work both ways.
 
I play them-Jap-very often and have never ever seen the -20% bug when i am on defence.
 
2Coats said:
Er not exactly. Try seeing if the enemy attacks after moving 2game weeks into one of your provinces. Of course not Europe. It SHOULD work both ways.
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I was testing for a couple of months with Jap and did not get it when i defended.

I also then tested with Germany in 41 in Sweden. It seemed to me that its corelated with convoys and the way the comp stocks the supplies in the main port in sweden. At time i had it even though I was supplying my troops 100% - then I canceled the convoys to 0 - waited till the supplys in the port I was sending supplies to got to 0 - started sending convoy and the supply -20 wasnt there.. However its really confusing.. and I cant seem to find whats the pattern..

F
 
bryanandpatti said:
The same thing happens to the U.S. troops when attacking in France. They move to England first and then attack from there so as not to get a huge logistics distance penalty. After taking the first province, when attacking into another, I get the -20 out of supply penatly which I shouldnt since I am sending a ton of supplies to the provinces held in France. What is the deal?
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I tried reproducing this in the 44 scenario and never experienced the out of supply penalty when attacking in France with the US. The AI Germans did get it when they were defending though. I reloaded the game to see why and discovered that their supply stockpile was exhausted - think they'd burnt it up rebuilding under strength units and the slider setting wasn't pumping out supplies fast enough to keep up.

My theory is that you get this penalty in bad terrain like China because your trrops take so long matching into battle that they use up the suuplies they carry with them. And they can't resupply because the province is enemy controlled. If you're getting the problems with the US in France it may be that you're just not pumping enough supplies into the beachhead and so some units don't get replenished. Set up bigger convoys perhaps?

So I'm not convinced that it's a bug yet. It must just be that the details of the supply chain are not suuficiently visibible so that we can understand what's going on. It would be good if there was a way to study the supply status of a unit, especially how much organic suuply it still has left. This would be a good tooltip detail on the supply icon for a unit. I'll try asking Johan for this - will help with deugging this game and HoI 2, like the tooltip combat stats which let us see the out of supply modifier for the first time.

Andrew
 
hopi said:
Tried with 100 convoy. didn't help. it seems that troops have more than enough supplies and sudently out of supply when i move troops to province next door.
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I'll confirm this report. There may be some "works as designed" going on here somewhere, but this issue behaves like a bug.
 
hopi said:
Tried with 100 convoy. didn't help. it seems that troops have more than enough supplies and sudently out of supply when i move troops to province next door.
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Can you upload your savegame (prior or near to the game situation where the 'bug' occurs) to webspace and post or PM me a link to it please?
 
I have the exact same problem with the U.S. fighting in Argentina (They turned Axis). Whenever I attack out of a province I captured I lose supply a few seconds into the battle. If I'm defending in a province I control I never loose supply. It makes zero difference how many convoys I have going into the beachead. The supply modifier combined with the logistics hit makes the campaign pretty much unfightable.

P.S. I really think the logistics hit is kinda bogus..... what does it matter if your fighting a million miles from home as long as you are getting adequite supplies & reinforcements.
 
3cengel3 said:
I have the exact same problem with the U.S. fighting in Argentina (They turned Axis). Whenever I attack out of a province I captured I lose supply a few seconds into the battle. If I'm defending in a province I control I never loose supply. It makes zero difference how many convoys I have going into the beachead. The supply modifier combined with the logistics hit makes the campaign pretty much unfightable.

P.S. I really think the logistics hit is kinda bogus..... what does it matter if your fighting a million miles from home as long as you are getting adequite supplies & reinforcements.
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Thx 3cengel3. The logistics problem is NOT a bug, but Im sure youve seen the amount of concerns from others about it.

Regarding the disappearing supplies and being out of supplies, how long are the troops taking to move from one province to the other? 2weeks or more? Can you provide the exact province to province movement and movetime for those units?

Cheers
2Cs
 
Nope there seems to be no correlation between the time it takes to move and going out of supply. It definately happens on moves of less then 2 weeks. For instance, I move from Mar Del Plata to Buenos Aries time is 7 days, when my troops arrive they are initialy in supply...one or two hours into the fight thier status goes to out of supply. It happens every time I'm on offense EXCEPT when I do an amnphibous invasion..... if my troops amphibiously invade they seem to stay in supply as normal.

It NEVER happens when I'm on defense..... so I'm pretty sure that I have enough supplies getting to the troops in Argentina.
 
I was playing Japan yesterday - 39 scenario, 1.06c. I was fighting deep in the interior of China, where it's hard going in the mountains. And I was never seeing the out-of-supply penalty for my attacks.

In a previous 1.06c game, I saw the penalty for a French army that I landed in the Netherlands in 39. I set up a convoy for them but the fighting was so hectic there that I'm not sure how that turned out. My impression was that the penalty was legitimate in that case - maybe 24 French divisions exhausted the supply production of the Netherlands.

I'd like a reliable test case for this if someone can suggest one. An example that you can reproduce near the start of a scenario.

Andrew
 
Well the bug never occurs when one is defending (at least I have never had it happen). From my test it seems that the error is linked to the fact that:
the "initial" stockpile that the units use is drained before 0:00 thus the units next day are -20%.

I havent noticed any time dependancies - ie. it doesnt matter if you are moveing 1 week or 2 month - it still happens.

F

EDIT: Well I did some more tests and here is a wierd result. Start the 1939 scen. as japan . Cancel the convoy from Hiroshima to Koshu (the stockpile place) and change the convoy from koshu to hiroshima so that it ships oil and supplies. After a while you should have 0 supplies left in koshu. Meanwhile order an attack from Wuhan to xiangfen. when the troops arrive they are still in supply. Furthermore although you have 0 supplies in Koshu and no convoy running to mainland China you can still resupply units... And suddenly all your troops are in supply. Create a new convoy with supplys to koshu and the bug is there again.

Creating a new convoy to shanghai with supplies does create the bug as the pool moves to the main supply depot (koshu). however it seems that if you set up a convoy to shanghai that transports supplies, but is smaller than the convoy that is russing from koshu the supply depot does not merge + you do not have the -20 penalty. However the convoy from koshu to Japan must also transport supplies. so in effect you are dumping the supplies in one territory and picking them up in another. None the less china is still in supply.

this leads to three thoughts:

1) either the map is mismapped.
2) the convoys are screwed.
3) or the convoys are calculated wrong

or maybe all three.

Anyways if you are playing japan the work around this bug is to:

(EDITED)

1) Cancel the convoy from Japan to Koshu
2) Add to the Koshu -- Japan convoy supplies
3) Make sure the supply depot in Koshu is drained of supplies
4) DO NOT set up any convoy with supplies to mainland China. They will still be in supply.

should work - if not let me know ;). mainland china seems to be somehow magically resupplied..

enjoy! :cool:

F
 
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Hmmm, bad bug

Fiendix said:
Well the bug never occurs when one is defending (at least I have never had it happen). From my test it seems that the error is linked to the fact that:
the "initial" stockpile that the units use is drained before 0:00 thus the units next day are -20%.

I havent noticed any time dependancies - ie. it doesnt matter if you are moveing 1 week or 2 month - it still happens.

F

EDIT: Well I did some more tests and here is a wierd result. Start the 1939 scen. as japan . Cancel the convoy from Hiroshima to Koshu (the stockpile place) and change the convoy from koshu to hiroshima so that it ships oil and supplies. After a while you should have 0 supplies left in koshu. Meanwhile order an attack from Wuhan to xiangfen. when the troops arrive they are still in supply. Furthermore although you have 0 supplies in Koshu and no convoy running to mainland China you can still resupply units... And suddenly all your troops are in supply. Create a new convoy with supplys to koshu and the bug is there again.

Creating a new convoy to shanghai with supplies does create the bug as the pool moves to the main supply depot (koshu). however it seems that if you set up a convoy to shanghai that transports supplies, but is smaller than the convoy that is russing from koshu the supply depot does not merge + you do not have the -20 penalty. However the convoy from koshu to Japan must also transport supplies. so in effect you are dumping the supplies in one territory and picking them up in another. None the less china is still in supply.

this leads to three thoughts:

1) either the map is mismapped.
2) the convoys are screwed.
3) or the convoys are calculated wrong

or maybe all three.

Anyways if you are playing japan the work around this bug is to:

1) Cancel the convoy to Koshu.
2) add to the convoy from Koshu supplies and oil so that the supply depot is drained to 0.
3) cancel the convoy from koshu to mainland japan so that it does not take supplies and oil
4) dont send convoys to and from one depot in the future..

should work - if not let me know ;). mainland china seems to be somehow magically resupplied..

enjoy! :cool:

F
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It did not work for me Fiendix. I'm playing Japan in a mp game (1.06b though) and I tried to do as you said: emptied the supply depot at Koshu, my trrops were still in supply, but I still had the 20% penalty. I tried to create a new, smaller convoy in Shangai, create one in Koshu, I tried just about everything but to no avail. I checked and when you create a convoy anywhere else than to Koshu, that convoy does not carry any supplies. Oil yes, but no supplies.

What I did not try is to cancel the convoy in Koshu as you suggested. I dont see how this is feasible anyway given the fact that you need to carry the ressources home. I did try to carry oil, steel, coal and rubber only, but it did not work - still had the -20%. I'll keep working on it, but this bug is pretty bad when you try to go agaisnt the russians :(

Let me know if you find anything else or if the method you described above works everytime in your game. If it does, I'll try to cancel the Koshu to Japan convoy and see what it does.

Thanks anyway.


Ghis
 
cancel all the convoys you have. Then set up a convoy from Koshu to Japan that ships everything out. I tried it on my second comp and it worked. Dont create the one to shanghai as the supplys appear in Koshu which creates the whole problem again. I am using 1.06c so maybe there was a change..

F

EDIT if anybody else could test this it would be great...
 
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