Ottomans Nerfed? - The Superthread

[Rider_of_Doom]

Ottomans are still fine. Paradox only needs to fix the missions setup, so they take out Byzantium before Albania.

The only new thing is, that they can finally fall apart, if the circumstances are right (started three games with CoC, in none of these games they we're beaten), like every other major in the game. And that's a good step, because EUIV is a sandbox game, based on history and not a straight simulation.

 

[Ratanka]

So far the biggest Ottoman nerf seem to be the AI army movement changes. 127k army vs 42k QQ and friends army, Ottomans haven't been fighting anyone else for the duration of the war. Even so, all but 3 regiments are hanging around deep in Ottoman territory while they haven't even sieged down the war goal. 80 years into the game and I have seen this behaviour in several AI vs AI wars already.

View attachment 314118

A bit more than 2 years later and the Ottomans prefers to take attrition in their own territory instead of getting their 10 to 1 stackwipes or sieging down provinces.

View attachment 314125

yes thats so anoying, they sit with 60k in moldawia getting sieged down by 10k in mainland ...
wtf they did to the ai movements ....

 

[Ratanka]

Yup

And I think they want more, I think the ottomans are going to be wiped out before 1550 at this rate. This is glorious, never seen anything like it in this game before.

and still everyone in this thread is like "they are fine they are still stronk ..." ... no they not this here is common ...

 

[PhoenixG]

(Based upon a single, anecdotical, game as Mamluks)
I don't see Ottomans being weaker with the new patch.
They still ate their minor neighbours, kicked around Venice, etc. The only reason stuff like Karaman still exists is because I allied them (as Mamluks) straight away, and then proceeded to eat and diploannex most of Arabia.
At some point, I noticed Ottomans were figting the Ao's, with ~40k troops and ZERO manpower remaining. Figuring I had a slight edge on drill/professionalism and good generals, alongside 48k troops, I 1on1 DoW'd the Ottos (plusminus a few vassals of mine, but their 16k (total) barely moved or contributed).
Troop composition should have favored me (I was running a very cavalry-heavy army around tech level 7-8), professionalism/drill favored me, they were running 20k mercs and out of manpower, generals were equal, they had a 5% discipline advantage.
They nearly wiped my 48k troops with a 12k regiment of infantry (no terrain advantages).
Despite me getting several hundred ducats of presents from Otto rivals, I had to peace out after running out of manpower and money, and barely managed to sacrifice one 24k stack and my fleet in order to rush down the wargoal, to minimize losses to 19% of low value North-Arabic provinces.
Shortly after the Ottomans Independence'd the Ao's (my key opportunity to expand and cut off the Ottoman east expansion), then DoW'd the Ao's (I still have no fucking idea how they managed to do that despite guarantueeing them)...

For the time being, I'm now trying to eat through Persia in an attempt to block off the Ottomans from India in a second line, whilst having completed my own conquest of Arabia and workign my way down East Africa. I'm now the #1 Greatest Power (Dev just 50 short of Ming), got Muscovy (bordering Ottomans on the Black Sea) as ally, and hope I can somehow deal with the Ottos later on.

Pretty much my experience in my first war against Ottoman. Although I had 5 vassals and Ottoman was allied to Crimea. While I didn't drill much, but I had a 3 to 4 mil tech advantage and a 2/6/0/1 leader. Every battles with equal numbers I lost. Mostly due their inf got 10% combat and janissaries. The war drag for 10 years. It was also kinda my fault, that I withheld the merc spam for too long.

The only reason I see how I can beat ottoman on mil tech with his 6 vs my 4 in mil is he was burning his mil points on janissaries.

 

[Ratanka]

so Trin i like u but saying "i never see it happen" and the first youtube AI only here shows them die twice is hilarious xD

 

[Sfan]

and still everyone in this thread is like "they are fine they are still stronk ..." ... no they not this here is common ...

Noone says that they are still as strong. But we say that this is fine. And we say that people ranting and repeatedly posting the same screenshots while ignoring every other game is ridiculous. Look at that thread. We got people who saw them lose, and others who say "they are doing fine in my game, they conquered this or that", and you repeatedly quote only the times where they fail. Noone pretends that they succeed as often. But some people either like it, or are sensible enough to understand that complaining after one day of experience is irrational.

 

[Ratanka]

dont even try. .. so many ottomans hater here will tell u its all fine and we need more ottoman nerfs ... totaly bs

 

[fksahin]

Also I forgot that during first game Albania won the war against Ottomans when they were one to one after Venice signed white peace with Ottomans and got Albanian lands from Ottomans. Isn't it great?

 

[Arkhis]

I did a hands of observer run yesterday evening and the Ottomans were the top world power in 1750.

They took the balkan areas (except the lands held by Hungary) and took the caucasus area, northern Iran, Mesopotamia & the Levant, all of Egypt & Tunisia.

Also, Sevres Syndrome much?

 

[Sfan]

We who make rational arguments and try to explain what "statistic" means and which bias should be avoided are probably the hating ones, people who disagree with you can't do it in a reasonable way, is it?

 

[raikaria]

yes thats true and i understand the changing who wants to play Karaman, it makes easier but what about Candar's core? Is it gameplay decision? what about third ottoman core changing. I see just unstablity for decisionmakers in paradox.

@schondetta i dont know you tell me patch or expansion pack. also i dont guees you play as an ottoman with the new contents. I mean if you play both of them, there is no ottoman's power. thats all.

Candar also has an achievement; Turkish Delight [Start as Candar and own 20 Sugar provinces between you and your subjects.]

It also was probobly done to intentionally slow the Ottomans down. With the greater amount to development in the Middle-East; the Ottomans could snowball even harder than before and become a completely unstoppable juggernaut without some sort of nerf. As it was it was not unusual to see Ottomans reaching from the Horn of Africa to Russia and the Baltic; and from Austria's borders to India.

Aside from their habit of allying Tunis instead of eating North Africa; AI Ottomans last patch usually outperformed Historical Ottomans quite significantly [Often devouring most of the PLC and Russia as well as fully annexing the Persian region]

 

[szmik]

That event does not kill anyone, it happens on ruler death, it does not cause it.

so 14-20 year old ruler is dying way too often...

 

[Arkhis]

Much better than the Stockholm Syndrome you got from Paradox.
It keeps us awake and sharp.

No, its what drives the constant fascist tendencies in Turkey since the founding of the republic.

Stockholm syndrome my ass.

 

[dunyayi kurtaran adam]

so 14-20 year old ruler is dying way too often...

This is why Ottomans shouldn't appoint their GODLIKE 6-4-6 ruler as a general. Before Coc they weren't doing this mostly but now. Coc brakes a lot of things.

 

[Ninaran]

And in my second game with new dlc, Ottomans lost even against knights in a one to one war, wtf?

Also half of Anatolia is belongs to White Sheep and Mameluks.

Knights winning against the Ottomans? Seems historical.

 

[dunyayi kurtaran adam]

Knights conquering İzmir from the Ottomans? Seems pretty unhistorical.

 

[dunyayi kurtaran adam]

They’ve been periodically removing most of the starting cores from various powers, Ottomans being the latest of these, and certainly a nerf a long time coming. Ottomans are still a beast, you just have to actually be awake for some of the game time to win now.

no ottoman empire will not get missions for anatolia. here the funny thing;

- austria gets permanent claims on royal hungary
- russia gets permanent claims on half of eastern europe including crimea
- ottoman empire doesn't have any permanent or normal claim on anatolia.

what a joke...

 

[TenshiN]

Don't worry guys! There will be a hotfix released tomorrow that returns us Byzantium players to banging our heads against the wall and restarting every two minutes.

I don't think they will ever disappear anywhere, even if in some future version they will insta-inherit Ottoman territory

 

[Ninaran]

Knights conquering İzmir from the Ottomans? Seems pretty unhistorical.

Fair enough, but them winning the war isn't. Maybe we should have it like CK2, where a winning defender can't take any land? I'd rather not want that.

Tell me one reason that why the Paradox removes all cores of Ottomans except one: the one in Albania. Then suddenly adds a guarantee on Albania from Venice after 82173674294 patches out since the release.

If you see this as innocent act then ok i am a conspiracy theorist.

The core remains because technically they were at war at game start due to them declaring independence, but PDX removed all wars at the start of the game. The core is there to push them into that war however. Venice guarantees them because the league of lezhe was under their patronage.

 

[dunyayi kurtaran adam]

The quesition is why now? Venice started to guarantee Albania after bazillions of patches out? They could do that long before now but they didn't. This whole shitstorm can be avoided either removing core or not adding the guarantee if you can't manage the Ai's war calculations against trade unions and hre members.