Ottomans in the protestant league

[Sunspawn]

I think that until the first League-involved war, the Leagues should be limited to the HRE member states only. Only afterwards should non-member states enter following their policies and allegiances. Say PLC joining the Protestant League due to an alliance with Protestant Brandenburg.

 

[Gwyn ap Nud]

Sunspawn's idea makes sense. Have the Leagues be locked to outside involvement at first, and then open them up once the war has begun. Maybe even give out special CBs during the period of war to neighbouring countries to encourage them to intervene?

 

[klinkvon13]

In my last two games, Ottomans and Muscowy were involved in Protestant leagues.

it really gives them an edge to destroy any unity within Europe for free. For the record, in my last game, the end result was to dismantle countries that participate in this war for territories outside of HRE. That does not make sense either.

Kind of funny in some way. Though I dont see the rationale. Even though there was a strong element of politics behind religious wars in Europe, I dont think the notion of Ottomans in a Catholic or Protestant league makes any sense.
I've on reddit several post about it though stating that Ottomans were historically part of the protestant league I've seen no reference about it. Ottomans are not listed in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmalkaldic_League for instance (even though there are mentioned in this page are stuff like :

At the time, the Thirty Years' War was raging across Europe. The Commonwealth was relatively uninvolved in this war but the Polish king, Zygmunt III Waza, sent an elite and ruthless mercenary unit, the Lisowczycy, to aid his Habsburg allies. They defeated the Transylvanian lord George I Rákóczi at the Battle of Humenné in 1619, and prince Gabriel Bethlen of Transylvania asked Sultan Osman II for aid.
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It seems quite clear to me that side involvement, being called as ally, as nothing to do as being part of the league. As said, even if politics were tied to religion, they were not completely disregarded to the point to make a Catholic league mostly with muslim or heretics or whatever.

And it is clearly a game changer, since I suspect the leagues go to war only when one side thinks we can actually win. And when you have Muscowy/whatever big the east/Ottomans plus one major HRE player in one league, obviously they can.
Why not even Ming and Timurids within the league?


Alternative history still is history. It has to make some sense. Otherwise let's call Protestant League a new happy meal at some fast food and put whatever weak or too stronge sauce within.

 

[klinkvon13]

It is quite sad that apparently not many people care about this. I was outraged. The game has sophisticated religious mecanism. And all of the sudden, we get a world war I with half of the belligerants not even related to protestant or catholics.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

It is quite sad that apparently not many people care about this. I was outraged. The game has sophisticated religious mecanism. And all of the sudden, we get a world war I with half of the belligerants not even related to protestant or catholics.

Except, of course, they are related. Much of the period is dominated by the Hapsburgs ongoing conflicts with both the Ottomans and the French, both of whom have a vested interest in preventing a united HRE.

I'd be more outraged if it was hardcoded that international politics was blocked by a game mesasge labelled: 'Nope, not allowed to do this because someone doesn't like it.'

 

[Woifee]

Oh, it's 2014 again already.

 

[klinkvon13]

Except, of course, they are related. Much of the period is dominated by the Hapsburgs ongoing conflicts with both the Ottomans and the French, both of whom have a vested interest in preventing a united HRE.

I'd be more outraged if it was hardcoded that international politics was blocked by a game mesasge labelled: 'Nope, not allowed to do this because someone doesn't like it.'

(not talking about France)
How Ottomans or Muscovy relates to Consubstantiation or Transubstantiation?

Obviously, these countries have an interest in what is going on in Europe. It does not mean that they were vocal guests at the Council of Trent. So basiscally, you want a right for any country to participate in religious war?
Why not have Ming and muslim Mamluks participating in Crusades then? Why not having christian England doing a djihad on Paris then?

That Ottomans, Muscovy or whatever would be called in a war because of Alliances, that is a thing. That, from the start, they belongs to a Christian purity league (Protestant or Catholic) and are, in fine, de facto leader of one of theses leagues, is damned nonsense.
Why not giving muslim Ottomans missionaries to convert territory to christianity at the same time? Why not giving Rome some patriarch autority, if you are so afraid of hardcoded politics?

Not to mention that it fires a word world war 1 instead of a league war in HRE.

 

[Sunspawn]

(not talking about France)
How Ottomans or Muscovy relates to Consubstantiation or Transubstantiation?

Obviously, these countries have an interest in what is going on in Europe. It does not mean that they were vocal guests at the Council of Trent. So basiscally, you want a right for any country to participate in religious war?
Why not have Ming and muslim Mamluks participating in Crusades then? Why not having christian England doing a djihad on Paris then?

That Ottomans, Muscovy or whatever would be called in a war because of Alliances, that is a thing. That, from the start, they belongs to a Christian purity league (Protestant or Catholic) and are, in fine, de facto leader of one of theses leagues, is damned nonsense.
Why not giving muslim Ottomans missionaries to convert territory to christianity at the same time? Why not giving Rome some patriarch autority, if you are so afraid of hardcoded politics?

Not to mention that it fires a word world war 1 instead of a league war in HRE.

TYW was pretty much WW1. EVERYONE west of Poland participated.

 

[A_Dane]

My biggest problem is that you can't really join after the war has started - that's silly, plenty of powers did so historically..

 

[Checco]

My biggest problem is that you can't really join after the war has started - that's silly, plenty of powers did so historically..

That is the main point imo.

The reason the war was prolonged was France paying outstandings sums to recruit everyone who moved to prevent a Habsburg victory, until in the end they were forced to join directly due to lack of results.
It should be the opposite implementaion...
-first the religious league war (composed of few core members) starts, then
-everyone outside who is interested joins, with game mechanics to accomodate a discontinued partecipation.

 

[klinkvon13]

TYW was pretty much WW1. EVERYONE west of Poland participated.

WW1 without GB and Russia? Ahem.

Still does not change my point. How come Muslim and Orthodox get part of CATHOLIC or PROTESTANT league. Getting involved in a war by play of alliances, that is ok. But PART of the league, that's something else. Especially when them participating implies that the war will start earlier because one side will feel powerful enough.