Ottomans: Conquest of the Old World

[calvinhobbeslik]

The Ottoman Empire is one of the best nations if you want to conquer a lot, and it's also considered to be one of the easiest nations. My goal is to conquer as much of the Old World as possible (no silly colonization): Unify Islam(literally if possible, including West & East Africa, the Steppes, India, and SE Asia), the Sultan of Rum, and perhaps even the entire Mediterranean coast. Is this even close to feasible? If so, how would I go about it?

 

[unmerged(815621)]

This is relatively easy to do by the 1600s.

Start out by sieging Albania. Detach all but siege troops. Attack Byzantium, detach all but siege troops. Use your remaining troops for reconquista CBs. Do not draw the Mamaluks into fighting until you get all your land back (as you will be fighting ~8 countries at this point and do not want the Mamluks to be one of them). Use missions to get free claims.

During your first fight with the Timurids. Take Persian lands. Release Persia as your vassal. Feed Persian Timurid land in subsequent wars. Once you get enough land, you should be able to diplo vassal Tripoli, Tunisia, smaller east african states and some middle eastern states. Do so. You may be able to diplo vassal indian states as well, if not you can always military vassal or just straight conquer. You may or may not have Wallachia, Bosnia, and/or Serbia. You may also have other horde lands as well. You should be in and out of various coalitions at this point. Just attack your neighbors that are not in coalitions against you, letting your other neighbors cool down. Of course integrate your vassals.

Essentially branch out in every direction, and you will become an unstoppable blob.

I also let my tech drop below western countries, allowing me to westernize. Janissary bonuses and military focused ideas will keep your military above most people during this time (its generally easier to drop below in admin and diplo tech to help westernize, using DIP to convert culture and ADM to bypass vassal feeding, plus you should have ample land to build improvements on).

After westernization you should be able to take on Russia + all of Europe + all of India with no problems. I got the 90 Naval and Army achievement just by being in coalition wars. I essentially depleted the man and sea power of every major European country with no effort. I did not care about conquering at this point, just the 90 achievement.

 

[durvas]

Asia and Africa plus uniting Islam is definitely possible. You probably couldn't do it at the same time as trying to do the entire Mediterranean coast unless you use the release nation trick for AE. You also could try converting to Orthodox then Catholicism to expand into Europe, if you don't care about staying Muslim. As for going about it, it's mostly normal conquest (vassal feeding, Overseas Conquest CB, etc.). I only have a few general tips specific to Ottomans. The Timurids have an old ruler AND heir at start. RM them early and you can possibly get them in a PU by 1465 which would save a ton of fighting. Also, when fighting the Mamluks, in the first war, take Gaza and Sinai to cut off their Asian provinces. This makes them count as overseas colonies to them and thus reduces their manpower/tax to the Mamluks as well as making them dirt cheap in war score cost and able to take with the colonialism CB (25% AE). Finally, if you can't get that PU with the Timurids, take one of the Persian provinces from Qara Qoyunlu and release it so that all the Persian rebels will turn the provinces to your vassal.

 

[Xara]

It's certainly doable. Do you have the Stars and Crescent dlc? Because that gives an actual "Unify Islam" ability.

You can tussle with the eastern tech groups relatively early (I pushed hard into Poland and Lithuania, now that cores survive much longer, Ukraine and several minors hidden inside Lithuania are excellent to capture / release / feed), you can obliterate the other Muslims easily, and with westernization you can push into Europe.

For god's sake, do not enact the devshirne or especially the provincial government decisions. The last thing you want on a continent-spanning empire is higher revolt risk, unless you enjoy having your force limits eaten by rebel crushers

just an example of my otto game, I'm thinking about doing the Mediterranean thing. No active vassal feeding (beyond returning cores of restored-to-life or force-vassalized nations) or exploiting the reduce-AE thing, I got unification done, could do Rum easily except I already have it. Just barely got Morocco and Timurids as diplo-vassals.

The Timurids have an old ruler AND heir at start. RM them early and you can possibly get them in a PU by 1465 which would save a ton of fighting.

that woulda helped!

Also I wouldn't ally with Crimea. They just drag you into dumb wars. I used my slots on Tunisia, Tripoli, Athens (forced to take due to killing Byz), and force-vassalizing serbia/bosnia/wallachia/etc

 

[SuperSFX]

I did a run like this not too long ago. Here's some basic steps to get you going in the right direction.

To start, you are going to want to vassalize Byzantium. Whether that takes 1 or 2 wars, it doesn't matter as long as you vassalize them. After that, use the diplomacy screen to see where the remaining byzantium cores are. Venice has a few, so your next major target is Venice. Ideally, they call in the knights. Peace the knights out first and demand annexation and then sell the province to the Byzantines. Have Venice return its 3 (I believe) cores to the Byzantines. Next, trebizond return cores to the Byzantines. Then, look for your own cores and take back all of those. Annex the Byzantines. Take the mission to conquer the Mamluks. Take a few provinces in the Sinai peninsula and at least 1 province that is a syrian core. Release syria as a vassal. Keep eating the Mamluks until you have fully annexed them.

At this point, you can go in several directions. Since you want to unify Islam and expand East... Diplovassalize your way across the north of Africa and into the Arabian Peninsula. In the mean time, DOW Qara and take 1 province from Persia core and 1 from Iraq core. Persia is going to be the key to taking down the Timurids. If Persia gets released before you can release it, it is going to be significantly more difficult to take down the Timurids and Persia itself. The Timurids are going to be your first real challenge. Just bait them into attacking you in the mountains and you should be fine. Take 2 Provinces (1 for Khorsan and 1 for Baluchistan) and then proceed to feed vassals. In the mean time, you should have been able to vassalize and annex Tripoli and possibly Tunisia.

Ideas: Start with expansion. The extra diplo relations is good, but the permanent CB in Asia is where its really at. You don't even have to border countries you want to attack. Next, either Offensive or Religious. Eventually, military points will be burning a hole in your pocket so it may be a good idea to take Military first and Religious later. Religious is necessary for expanding into Europe reliably later as well as reducing AE when complete.

One final note: for getting Sultan of Rum achievement, as soon as you can diplo-vassalize Crimea, do it and integrate. Attack Muscovy while they are still weak or you may find yourself in a difficult situation.

Hope this helps!

Here's an SS of what I managed to achieve using this method. I abandoned the game when 1.3 came out due to issues with vassal integration overseas. I never picked it up again when it got patched.

This was before Ottomans got overseas Expansion CB. I know I could do this much faster now.

 

[Korashy]

Trying Ottoman WC right now. I immediately declared war on everything that had a core. Then allied Granada, waited for Spain to come knocking, took Andalusia. Waited for Truce, attack Castile again, took Murcia and Cardiz, fed to Granada after diplo vassalizing them. Took Galicia, release them, gave them Porto and the province next to it. Spent the next few years knocking out Portugal, and Castile.

It's 1520 ish right now, Portugal is dead, Castile is a 3OPM, I took a bunch of England, but they fiendishly started colonizing, so I'm gonna have to burn a few colonies. Gonna Work on breaking France next, and on we go.

 

[bleakie]

This is a screenshot for my Ottoman Empire in 1706, intended for my AAR:

I have to admit that my first 20 years is sub-optimal for an WC attempt under the conditions of the current patch. Going for Mamluks first and ignoring Central Europe. And then I did not go for Russia fast enough, and let Russia colonize 10 provinces before I can finally contain it. The one thing that I did right was to kill Portugal and England in time, and managed to contain colonization eventually, even though the process is a bit ugly.

If you are only going for an Ottoman version of the Jihad achievement, then you should definitely begin the game by taking Istria from Venice and snatch Styria from Austria by taking one province, releasing the vassal and returning cores to it. This will give you some very rich provinces in the middle of Europe, and then you can conquer Europe from its very heart starting from there. I also recommend Religious over Expansion as the first idea, as the Holy War CB is the most handy thing that you can get for conquering in Europe as the Ottomans. You can unlock the first idea to get the CB first, and then fill the rest of the ideas later on.

 

[lordelenath]

It's very important to go east early in my opinion. If you manage to arrive in China while it's still united, you can easily fight Ming twice, make them release Shun and Zhou, fight them again, vassalize Ming, attack Shun and Zhou and return all of Mings cores. You don't really have to bother with Africa militarily, you can basicly diplo-vassalize every single nation (Sunni ofc) once you've grown a bit. The same is true for the Arabian Peninsula, depending how the nations evolve over there. My main problem with the Ottomans is that I'm starving for dip points. I am above relations limit all the time and those peace deals are very expensive.

Try to get the Expansion CB as early as possible, that will greatly help in your Asian campaigns (I think I took it first actually, because the diplo boosts are very helpful too).

 

[PedroVargas]

If you manage to arrive in China while it's still united, you can easily fight Ming twice, make them release Shun and Zhou, fight them again, vassalize Ming, attack Shun and Zhou and return all of Mings cores.

Might be a little off topic, but does that still work? In my current Russia game I made Ming release Shun and Zhou but Ming still has about 20 provinces. That's just too big to vassalize even with my huge country (I have Russia plus all the territories of the Ottomans, Timurids, Lithuania and half of India). So to make Ming small enough, I need at least two to thee wars more, amassing Aggressive Expansion :/

 

[bleakie]

Might be a little off topic, but does that still work? In my current Russia game I made Ming release Shun and Zhou but Ming still has about 20 provinces. That's just too big to vassalize even with my huge country (I have Russia plus all the territories of the Ottomans, Timurids, Lithuania and half of India). So to make Ming small enough, I need at least two to thee wars more, amassing Aggressive Expansion :/

You can leave China for a few decades, and make sure that Ming loses wars to Shun and Zhou. Then you do not need to conquer so many provinces to have Ming vassalized.
Or alternatively, take a couple of provinces from Ming first, release Shun as your vassal, and fight more wars to return the cores to Shun. This plan can streamline the use of diplomatic monarch points.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

Thanks, everyone! That's a bunch of very impressive empires!

Just to clarify, I don't particularly want to conquer that much of Europe...just the Mediterranean coast (or even just Italy+Southern Spain for the achievement) is fine with me. I'm certainly not going to try a WC as that would be way too tedious for me.

Should I have piety low or high? Since most of my enemies will be non-Muslim(especially if I diplovasallize most of the Muslims), I guess it will be high by default, which will help with conversions. Do you guys try to westernize to get rid of the tech malus/get better units? Also, if I complete the religious idea group and get the +2 tolerance to Shiites, will I get the annoying "Ulema concerned" event?

Speaking of diplovassalization, will I really be able to diplovassalize the Arabian peninsula(including the heretics), Algeria, and Morocco? Are the last 2 small enough to accept diplovassalization even when I get really large? What about Crimea? Don't they have too high of a base tax to diplovassalize?

How do I prevent the Europeans from colonizing Africa/conquering Mali etc. Do I just let them and fight them back for those provinces later?

Can the Byzantines be vassalized in 1 war(while also taking Constantinople)?

Should I be allying with anyone, in Europe or otherwise?

 

[lordelenath]

I diplo-vassalized every Sunni African nation in my Ottoman game except Mali (because of border distance, didn't bother to get close enough, it would've been possible otherwise). But obviously these things can change if some nations conquer a lot - the same is true for the Arabian Peninsula.

I managed to PU Crimea, but it would've been possible to diplo-vassalize them, especially since they tend to get beaten up if you don't help them, which will reduce their base tax. You can diplo-vassalize most of the sunni hordes too, you might have to cut them down to size if one expands a lot.

Regarding Byzantium I would recommend to vassalize them, because it will give you the chance to return them their missing cores (I think they have about half a dozen small provinces and islands which neither they nor you own at the beginning). All you lose is 10 prestige for not taking Constantinople. This can be done in one war.

In general, always watch out for big nations which are destroyed or almost dead, vassalize them (or take a province and release) and return their cores. If you want to go for the Mediterranean Aragon and Croatia ware probably good candidates, as well as Granada.

 

[durvas]

You can leave China for a few decades, and make sure that Ming loses wars to Shun and Zhou. Then you do not need to conquer so many provinces to have Ming vassalized.
Or alternatively, take a couple of provinces from Ming first, release Shun as your vassal, and fight more wars to return the cores to Shun. This plan can streamline the use of diplomatic monarch points.

That's a bit dangerous, though, as the AI tends to ask for revoking cores in peace deals and you may be left having to feed a bunch and getting a lot more AE. Also, the releasable countries start to lose cores by events in the early 1600s, the timer doesn't truly represent when you need to do it by. It's easier just to release all 3 countries then just take 1 province and release the Ming. As the Ottomans, you should be able to cross the Steppes or go in through Chagatai or the Oirat Horde to get there early enough.

 

[bleakie]

To diplo-vassalize large Sunni countries like Morocco, Algiers, Swahili and Mali, you need to get very high trust to offset their base tax modifier. I only got about +25, so I could barely manage to diplo-vassalize most of them. If you want an easier time, aim at getting +40 trust to every country. To achieve this, you need to get allies and respond to their call to arms. Your task is to find an ally that would not drag you into trouble. I achieve this by allying Austria and later Brandenburg.

For Byzantium, you can actually choose to take Constantinople and vassalize Byzantium in one war. Although this will generate 11.2 extra AE, you can instantly fail the mission and get a new one immediately. The early game missions of the Ottomans gives a lot of claims, including the entire Levant and the entire Egypt (though I think that relying on the DHE for one-war annexation may be a better choice), so getting a new mission 5 years earlier has its uses.

Picking expansion as the first idea group and getting fleet basing rights from Morocco are enough to colonize West Africa. Otherwise, there is the risk of Castile, Portugal and later France colonizing the region.

High piety is the only way to go for an expanding Ottoman Empire. The piety gain for declaring war on anyone but fellow Sunnis will kill any plan to getting deep in negative piety. And you will most likely use diplo-vassalization to get the majority of the Sunni provinces anyway.

 

[bleakie]

That's a bit dangerous, though, as the AI tends to ask for revoking cores in peace deals and you may be left having to feed a bunch and getting a lot more AE. Also, the releasable countries start to lose cores by events in the early 1600s, the timer doesn't truly represent when you need to do it by. It's easier just to release all 3 countries then just take 1 province and release the Ming. As the Ottomans, you should be able to cross the Steppes or go in through Chagatai or the Oirat Horde to get there early enough.

There are events that removes releasable cores? This is news to me. In my game, Ming collapsed in waves of revolts between 1600-1650, resulting in Zhou breaking free and conquering a few more provinces. There were only 4-5 Ming provinces that were not the cores of Shun at the same time.

 

[grisamentum]

Ugh. I was doing pretty well in my Ottoman game but I'm a little screwed now because I can't unify Islam because I can't integrate my PU over Granada. For no reason.

 

[bleakie]

Ugh. I was doing pretty well in my Ottoman game (as big as some of the screenshots but in 1550) but I'm a little screwed now because I can't unify Islam because I can't integrate my PU over Granada. For no reason.

It suffices for Cordoba to be owned by one of your subjects (Granada in your case), if what you have in mind is the "Unify Islam" decision.

 

[grisamentum]

It suffices for Cordoba to be owned by one of your subjects (Granada in your case), if what you have in mind is the "Unify Islam" decision.

Unfortunately they went Catholic so I'm not sure if it counts.

 

[Xara]

Unfortunately they went Catholic so I'm not sure if it counts.

It still counts. I unified Islam after having forced Spain to release a Catholic Granada, who I CTW-ed for an unrelated war and force-vassalized them when they refused
Only the provinces you personally own must be Sunni for it

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

Is the 1 colonist from Expansion sufficient to colonize Africa and (perhaps) Siberia?