Ottomans can't beat Byzantium or even Albania

[Palatinus Germanicus]

I took advantage of the sales, and got caught up on all the DLCs & latest patch. Having fun playing in the new Persia playground (just formed PER in 1465). I managed to ally the Ottomans early on. We haven't fought together yet, but I've had a front-row seat to their incompetence. I understand the Ottomans were slightly nerfed as of late, but is this what was intended?

They white-peaced w/ Byzantium. And also against Albania. Byzantium is actually growing, thanks to Venice getting destroyed (by other Christians, and them returning cores). Anyway, this just isn't the Ottomans I used to know. Not really complaining per se, just wasn't expecting anything like this.

Can't figure out how to siege Constantinople:

Spoiler

End of war against Albania:

Spoiler

I could easily switch to having the Mamluks in my corner. Kinda wondering if I chose the right ally...

edit: I really have absolutely no idea how this wound up in the suggestions sub-forum... I posted it in the main forum.

 

[Rocketskates]

its only 1459 and theres a 30 stack rebel army with some separatists while most of the turkish minors are gone, The Otto Man havent been nerfed at all, in fact its trashing everything around itself and rocks first place in every game of mine if it can do its thing for a hundred years undisturbed by the player. Just you wait.

 

[RagingMonkey]

As reply above, also a single game's experience isn't enough to really judge if the Ottos have been overnerfed or not.

 

[Palatinus Germanicus]

As reply above, also a single game's experience isn't enough to really judge if the Ottos have been overnerfed or not.

Absolutely, but I've never seen their A.I. simply not know how to siege down a capital fort... or prevent the 10k Byzantine army from running wild in Anatolia. -Or be totally oblivious about how to beat Albania, and some Venetian landings in Greece.

Taking away those cores (which I never understood why they had them, since EU3) is one thing, but I swear their A.I. is just not the same, somehow. I've been watching them closely, between my own wars... and I've never seen them look so inept.

 

[Ironside121]

I too have seen the Ottomans get thrashed early on.

They do make a comeback though. I allied them as the Great Horde and they were losing to Venice early on- but made a comeback once they dealt with the smaller nations around them.

 

[HydroAC]

The Ottos are still powerful, but I have seen them stumble badly in 1.23/1.24.

In my game as the (new) Mamluks the Ottos got devastated when they attacked Albania, drawing in Hungary, Venice (and vassals), Byzantium and Serbia. They might have recovered, but I swooped in and grabbed a bunch of Anatolia when they were weak.

In other games they make some progress, but it does seem slower. In many games the Ottos ignore Byzantium for way too long. The best they did was in a recent game as Spain when they vassalized and then integrated Crimea, allying Muscovy (!!) and then expanded east and south into Mamluk territory.

 

[I_am_Nemo]

The AI in general has been struggling as of the last few patches, and seems to struggle more so with multiple fronts and numerous allies.

That said, I've seen the Ottos completely fail in precisely one of. . . probably several dozen starts since 1.23. That time, they got run over by 'luks. Other than that, they've been doing just fine - even in the Persia game where I bottled them up in Anatolia, they were formidable enough when I finally went after them. In fact, if they don't stumble in the first few years by declaring into a Serb/Ven/Hungry mess, I'd say they're stronger than ever - combo if Janissary spam off Mehmet's 6/4/6 and the AI actually showing some competence in building its econ.

 

[hitchens]

The AI in general has been struggling as of the last few patches, and seems to struggle more so with multiple fronts and numerous allies.

Yeah, it can be pretty bad at times. I was going to CB France in a recent Castile game, but didn't see any of her armies. Turned out she had a stack of 59k troops down in a one core province colony in Africa. We really shouldnt judge the patch yet, as when they get these things fixed things might look completely different.

 

[I_am_Nemo]

Turned out she had a stack of 59k troops down in a one core province colony in Africa.

Yeah. They made the AI better about getting its armies overseas to fight - great - but now it struggles to get them back.

We really shouldnt judge the patch yet, as when they get these things fixed things might look completely different.

But fixing will, by definition, require a new patch. . .

 

[makaramus]

yea yea sometimes they die early yea yea ok we get it
but %85 of time they are super power of tthe region

 

[darthxeion]

The AI cant handle the changes with the ottomans, no one is denying that they are strong, especially as a players faction, but the AI cant handle them at all. In my experience the devs should just remove the core in Albania, and give them the conquer of constantinople mission as highest priority to take.
I find it quite disturbing that castille is conquering Granada most likely in the 1440th's and the ottos conquer constaninople far later. In my campaigns for most of their time they waste the entire first time with useless attacks on albania, the knights or trebizond, which is ultimatly the reason why they fail so often.

 

[GundamMerc]

The AI cant handle the changes with the ottomans, no one is denying that they are strong, especially as a players faction, but the AI cant handle them at all. In my experience the devs should just remove the core in Albania, and give them the conquer of constantinople mission as highest priority to take.
I find it quite disturbing that castille is conquering Granada most likely in the 1440th's and the ottos conquer constaninople far later. In my campaigns for most of their time they waste the entire first time with useless attacks on albania, the knights or trebizond, which is ultimatly the reason why they fail so often.

This is especially true now that Albania is guaranteed by Venice, virtually assuring that they have some form of protection even if they aren't allied with anyone.

 

[Rikissa]

yea yea sometimes they die early yea yea ok we get it
but %85 of time they are super power of tthe region

I think 85% is way too low, I've yet to see them fail. Despite all the pre-release hype about the Mamluks killing the Ottomans "every time".

 

[makaramus]

I think 85% is way too low, I've yet to see them fail. Despite all the pre-release hype about the Mamluks killing the Ottomans "every time".

I must agree I wrote %85 only because there are people who claiming ottomans nerfed too much

 

[Rikissa]

The Ottomans are so big that they can still make a comeback even in the (unlikely) scenario that they lose some battles and territory early on. There are loads of other tags which basically live and die by their first war, the Ottomans aren't one of them.

 

[raikaria]

9 times out of 10; any growth in Byzantium is due to Ottomans over-reaching against Albania.

- Ottomans thinks it is stronger than Albania and their allies; and indeed, is.
- However; Ottomans fails to realize it's navy loses so it cannot easily force out Venice and [usually] Aragon; and fails to account for two very important land modifiers which swing things in Albania's favour:

1: Skanderbeg.
2: They have to seige Albania to win the war; a mountains province

Put simply; in 1444; when combat width is ~20 and Army Tradition is low... it's next to impossible to beat an enemy with combat width; a 5/5/5 general on a defensive mountain fort. Ottos get worn down by Venice+Skanderbeg and then Aragon and Naples arrive and with Skanderbeg's help; it's just too much.

Also sometimes Albania and Byz ally. Or Byz declares on Ottos during this due to relative strength.

tl;dr: Venice has enough troops to reach combat width; and Mountains+Skanderbeg actually having troops to lead is something no-one can beat in 1444. Even the Ottomans.

 

[makaramus]

9 times out of 10; any growth in Byzantium is due to Ottomans over-reaching against Albania.

- Ottomans thinks it is stronger than Albania and their allies; and indeed, is.
- However; Ottomans fails to realize it's navy loses so it cannot easily force out Venice and [usually] Aragon; and fails to account for two very important land modifiers which swing things in Albania's favour:

1: Skanderbeg.
2: They have to seige Albania to win the war; a mountains province

Put simply; in 1444; when combat width is ~20 and Army Tradition is low... it's next to impossible to beat an enemy with combat width; a 5/5/5 general on a defensive mountain fort. Ottos get worn down by Venice+Skanderbeg and then Aragon and Naples arrive and with Skanderbeg's help; it's just too much.

Also sometimes Albania and Byz ally. Or Byz declares on Ottos during this due to relative strength.

tl;dr: Venice has enough troops to reach combat width; and Mountains+Skanderbeg actually having troops to lead is something no-one can beat in 1444. Even the Ottomans.

and this is ok... I mean this is how player shines aganist big nations too

 

[tip001]

AI in 1.24 is just utter shit. Simple as that.

 

[tip001]

You want a list of things? I am ok to deliver but its just not helping anyone. Lets hope PDX gets it together next patches

 

[GundamMerc]

AI in 1.24 is just utter shit. Simple as that.

Not surprising considering the sheer amount of variables it has to take into consideration. I'm honestly amazed that there is even an AI that can manage these, let alone being good at it. Too many people vastly underestimate all the moving parts that the UI hides that the AI needs to compute for a single nation. Then repeat that for every single country in the game.