I'm going to start a series of threads for the Ottomans, one for each century. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed or modeled and I figure it's easier to break the Ottomans down into specific centuries in order to tackle them. I'd like to keep it from the period of Mehmed I to Selim I, so despite the fact that Suleyman ascends the throne in 1520, let's just stop with Selim.
Please feel free to add problems I've forgotten (I'll add them to the following list). I will also list some related problems which might affect other countries.
Pink = To be debated
Pale Green = Proposed for 1.37
Plum = Doesn't involve Ottoman's until later, but needs to be fixed now
orange = Settled, rejected.
Light Blue = Settled, accepted.
Wheat = Accepted, in the AGCEEP.
*** Added later.
I. SET-UP
Please feel free to add problems I've forgotten (I'll add them to the following list). I will also list some related problems which might affect other countries.
Pink = To be debated
Pale Green = Proposed for 1.37
Plum = Doesn't involve Ottoman's until later, but needs to be fixed now
orange = Settled, rejected.
Light Blue = Settled, accepted.
Wheat = Accepted, in the AGCEEP.
*** Added later.
I. SET-UP
a. Cultures
II. Murad II.i. Rumelia's starting religion should be Sunni, starting culture should be Turkish.
ii. Macedonia's starting culture should be Turkish, religion should be Sunni. Make an event for the Fall of Salonika instead.
iii. *** Smyrna's starting culture should be Turkish, religion should be Sunni.
iv. *** Sivas should be Turkish
v. *** Hamadan should be Kurdish
vi. *** Thrace's starting culture should be Turkish.
b. National Provinces (Cores)ii. Macedonia's starting culture should be Turkish, religion should be Sunni. Make an event for the Fall of Salonika instead.
iii. *** Smyrna's starting culture should be Turkish, religion should be Sunni.
iv. *** Sivas should be Turkish
v. *** Hamadan should be Kurdish
vi. *** Thrace's starting culture should be Turkish.
i. Remove Ottoman's starting core on Thrace. It should be received in the City of Men's Desire event or the Conquest of Mehmet II, whichever comes first.
ii. Remove starting core on province of Serbia.
iii. Remove Ottoman's starting cores on Smyrna and Antalya.
c. Relations, Alliances, etc.ii. Remove starting core on province of Serbia.
iii. Remove Ottoman's starting cores on Smyrna and Antalya.
i. The Ottoman's starting alliance needs better relations in order to keep from fragmenting too early.
ii. Make Byzantium a starting vassal of the Ottomans. Remove military access.
iii. Ak Koyunlu's starting relations with Ottomans is too high, considering the Ottoman's tried to conquer them less than 20 years ago.
iv. The Ghazi (Teke) and Karaman should be in a starting alliance with each other.
v. *** Candar represents the Ottoman vassals in Kastamonu.
vi. *** Ghazi (Teke) and Karaman should be vassals of the Ottomans and have poor starting relations with them. Remove military access from OE through Ghazi.
d. Events.ii. Make Byzantium a starting vassal of the Ottomans. Remove military access.
iii. Ak Koyunlu's starting relations with Ottomans is too high, considering the Ottoman's tried to conquer them less than 20 years ago.
iv. The Ghazi (Teke) and Karaman should be in a starting alliance with each other.
v. *** Candar represents the Ottoman vassals in Kastamonu.
vi. *** Ghazi (Teke) and Karaman should be vassals of the Ottomans and have poor starting relations with them. Remove military access from OE through Ghazi.
i. Create an event that gives Ottomans a core on Walachia if Walachia is not owned by Walachia.
ii. The City of Men's Desire event should change Smyrna for Macedonia. Smyrna was majority Greek and Orthodox up to 1922. Macedonia was largely settled by Turks as it was conquered in the 14th Century and when Salonika fell in 1430, the Greeks largely abandoned it.
iii. The Patriarch event needs fixing. The first option currently is not the historical one, the second option is. Propose doing away with the first option altogether and looking at the second option for tweaking.
iv. Need events adding population to Thrace after it becomes part of OE.
v. Need event for the Fall of Rhodes, giving Ottomans choice whether or not to slaughter the Knights after promising them safe passage. If slaughtered, they don't get to reappear.
vi. ***Events that create Persia have wrong province as starting capital. Should be 487, Azerbaijan, which now has Tabriz as the city, not 530.
vii. *** Should Dobruja start out in rebellion or with a revolt risk? Sheik Bedrettin's revolt started in 1415-16, but was finally defeated in 1420. Perhaps a starting event?
viii. *** Need events for for Fall of Constanstinople.
x. *** Create an event for the Fall of Salonika. In 1430, change the culture and religion of Macedonia to Turkish and Sunni.
xi. *** Create an ai-only event giving the Ottomans a navy.
xii. *** Create an ai-only event that grants all 15th Century cores to the OE and sleeps the monarch events.
e. Misc.ii. The City of Men's Desire event should change Smyrna for Macedonia. Smyrna was majority Greek and Orthodox up to 1922. Macedonia was largely settled by Turks as it was conquered in the 14th Century and when Salonika fell in 1430, the Greeks largely abandoned it.
iii. The Patriarch event needs fixing. The first option currently is not the historical one, the second option is. Propose doing away with the first option altogether and looking at the second option for tweaking.
iv. Need events adding population to Thrace after it becomes part of OE.
v. Need event for the Fall of Rhodes, giving Ottomans choice whether or not to slaughter the Knights after promising them safe passage. If slaughtered, they don't get to reappear.
vi. ***Events that create Persia have wrong province as starting capital. Should be 487, Azerbaijan, which now has Tabriz as the city, not 530.
vii. *** Should Dobruja start out in rebellion or with a revolt risk? Sheik Bedrettin's revolt started in 1415-16, but was finally defeated in 1420. Perhaps a starting event?
viii. *** Need events for for Fall of Constanstinople.
A. *** Certain European countries should recieve -1 stab. Which ones?
B. *** Moslem (or Arab) countries should recieve +1 stab and better relations with Ottomans.
ix. *** Create parallel set of events for players to gain cores by successes, rather than timed.B. *** Moslem (or Arab) countries should recieve +1 stab and better relations with Ottomans.
x. *** Create an event for the Fall of Salonika. In 1430, change the culture and religion of Macedonia to Turkish and Sunni.
xi. *** Create an ai-only event giving the Ottomans a navy.
xii. *** Create an ai-only event that grants all 15th Century cores to the OE and sleeps the monarch events.
i. Ottoman starting centralization needs to be revisited.
ii. ***Ottoman flag should be green, not red. The red was only adopted in the late 18th Century.
iii. Dofar should be moved from Oman to Mahra.
iv. Socotara should be a Yemeni colonial city, but Orthodox.
v.Population of Thrace should be tripled at start (to 30,000).
vi. Thrace fortifications should probably be raised. Constantinople managed to hold out for years when seiged until they were cut off by sea.
vii. *** Ghazi needs fixing. Half the territory represented by this country was Ottoman territory. Return Smyrna to Ottomans and change Gahzi back to Teke.
viii. *** Capital of Karaman needs to move to Konya.
ix. *** Move Ramazan revolter province to Taurus.
x. *** Move Dulkadir revolter province to Adana.
xi. *** City in Morea should be Mistra, not Nafplion.
xii. *** Ragusa province should be changed to Cattaro and made Slavonic, instead of Durrazo and Albanian.
xiii. *** Should Hejaz be removed as a country and made part of the Mamelukes?
xiv. *** Turkish spellings or English pronounciations?
xv. *** Restore Cyrenaica as a revolter. It was independent from 1517 to 1521 and from 1710 onwards.
xvi. *** Start the OE at infra level 1.
xvii. *** Remove initial cannon from OE.
ii. ***Ottoman flag should be green, not red. The red was only adopted in the late 18th Century.
iii. Dofar should be moved from Oman to Mahra.
iv. Socotara should be a Yemeni colonial city, but Orthodox.
v.Population of Thrace should be tripled at start (to 30,000).
vi. Thrace fortifications should probably be raised. Constantinople managed to hold out for years when seiged until they were cut off by sea.
vii. *** Ghazi needs fixing. Half the territory represented by this country was Ottoman territory. Return Smyrna to Ottomans and change Gahzi back to Teke.
viii. *** Capital of Karaman needs to move to Konya.
ix. *** Move Ramazan revolter province to Taurus.
x. *** Move Dulkadir revolter province to Adana.
xi. *** City in Morea should be Mistra, not Nafplion.
xii. *** Ragusa province should be changed to Cattaro and made Slavonic, instead of Durrazo and Albanian.
xiii. *** Should Hejaz be removed as a country and made part of the Mamelukes?
xiv. *** Turkish spellings or English pronounciations?
xv. *** Restore Cyrenaica as a revolter. It was independent from 1517 to 1521 and from 1710 onwards.
xvi. *** Start the OE at infra level 1.
xvii. *** Remove initial cannon from OE.
a. Stats.
III. Mehmet II i. Murad II is a vanilla monarch. Lord Kinross' history, The Ottoman Centuries, suggests he was a very able administrator. Make his Admin stats “Good.”
b. National Provinces (Cores).i. Remove Ottoman cores on Albania and Bosnia from Murad II's conquest events.
ii. Add Smyrna to Murad II’s conquests.
iii. Add Antalya to Murad II’s conquests.
c. Events.ii. Add Smyrna to Murad II’s conquests.
iii. Add Antalya to Murad II’s conquests.
i. Absorption of Ghazi events need to be removed, assuming the removal of Ghazi and restoation of Teke. Event annexing Teke should remain.
ii. Rebellion of Iskander Bey should have a bigger offset. Right now an Ottoman player knows that Albania will break away in 1444, so why bother improving it or conquering it?
iii. *** Need a Hexemilion event. Choice A, smash the Heximilion and vassalize Morea, gain 12 month CB on Byzantines. Choice B, let the Byzantines annex Morea. This will require Events for the Byzantines as well.
iv. *** Need events for Mustafa's (Murad II's brother) 1423 revolt, and DoW by Ghazi (Teke) and Karaman.
v. *** Pretender to the Throne (Murad II's uncle, Mustafa) event should grant Ottomans a 24 month CB on Byzantines.
vi. *** Text for Mustafa's revolt needs fixing. It's very inaccurate.
ii. Rebellion of Iskander Bey should have a bigger offset. Right now an Ottoman player knows that Albania will break away in 1444, so why bother improving it or conquering it?
iii. *** Need a Hexemilion event. Choice A, smash the Heximilion and vassalize Morea, gain 12 month CB on Byzantines. Choice B, let the Byzantines annex Morea. This will require Events for the Byzantines as well.
iv. *** Need events for Mustafa's (Murad II's brother) 1423 revolt, and DoW by Ghazi (Teke) and Karaman.
v. *** Pretender to the Throne (Murad II's uncle, Mustafa) event should grant Ottomans a 24 month CB on Byzantines.
vi. *** Text for Mustafa's revolt needs fixing. It's very inaccurate.
a. Stats.
IV. Beyezid IIi. Mehmed II's stats for his first reign should be revised downward. His first reign was a disaster.
b. National Provinces (Cores).i. Add Bosnia core to Mehmet II's conquests.
ii. Add Serbia core to Mehmet II's conquests.
iii. Add Durazzo (Ragusa) core to Mehmet II's conquests, unless Ragusa province is changed to represent Cattaro. If Ragusa remains Durrazo, this should be in Beyezid II's conquests. If it becomes Cattaro, it should be removed al together.
iv. Remove core on Tarsus from Mehmet II's conquests.
v. Core on Albania should be given in a Death of Skanderbeg event.
c. Eventsii. Add Serbia core to Mehmet II's conquests.
iii. Add Durazzo (Ragusa) core to Mehmet II's conquests, unless Ragusa province is changed to represent Cattaro. If Ragusa remains Durrazo, this should be in Beyezid II's conquests. If it becomes Cattaro, it should be removed al together.
iv. Remove core on Tarsus from Mehmet II's conquests.
v. Core on Albania should be given in a Death of Skanderbeg event.
i. Mehmed II needs a fratricide event.
ii. *** Tweak Serbian refugee events. They are too harsh.
iii. Need an event vassalizing Crimea to Ottomans and bringing them into the Ottoman alliance, around 1475 or the conquest of Theodoro, whichever comes first.
iv. Need a Fall of Karaman event.
vi. *** Need event for the overthow of Mehmed II and the restoration of Murad II in 1446. If no European crusade, Mehmet should not be overthrown.
vii. *** Murad II should be lost as a leader at his retirement in 1444, and brought back if crusade happens.
viii. *** Need event breaking Morean vassalage.
ii. *** Tweak Serbian refugee events. They are too harsh.
iii. Need an event vassalizing Crimea to Ottomans and bringing them into the Ottoman alliance, around 1475 or the conquest of Theodoro, whichever comes first.
iv. Need a Fall of Karaman event.
A. *** When Konya fell, Cilia became independent. Model this by Konya granting independence to Ramazan in Taurus when Konya falls to Mehmet II.
v. *** Fiscal Policies of Mehmet II should also increase the Ottoman's innovativeness. Mehmet II was a major patron of the arts and humanities, and many Byzantine Greeks and Italians began moving back to the Empire during his rule. *** Use individual flavor events instead.vi. *** Need event for the overthow of Mehmed II and the restoration of Murad II in 1446. If no European crusade, Mehmet should not be overthrown.
vii. *** Murad II should be lost as a leader at his retirement in 1444, and brought back if crusade happens.
viii. *** Need event breaking Morean vassalage.
a. National Provinces (Cores).
V. Selim Ii. Add core to Adana in conquests of Beyzid II.
ii. Add core to Taurus in conquests of Beyzid II.
iii. Create an event that gives Ottomans a core on Moldavia if Moldavia is not owned by Moldavia after the Beyezid II conquest event.
b. Events.ii. Add core to Taurus in conquests of Beyzid II.
iii. Create an event that gives Ottomans a core on Moldavia if Moldavia is not owned by Moldavia after the Beyezid II conquest event.
i. *** Events for the Jewish refugees from Spain who settle in the Ottoman Empire. Look at Moroccan and Algerian events for modeling.
ii. Earthquake in 1509 in Istanbul.
iii. *** Cem's Revolt needs to be fixed.
v. *** Need an event for the destruction of Tabriz after the Ismailis take over Persia. If the Ottomans control Azerbaijan province (city of Tabriz): Establish CoT in Isfahan and remove CoT from Azerbaijan.
vi. *** Morisco's event needs to be redone. Historically, Ottoman fleet raided Spanish coast during the invasion of Grenada.
ii. Earthquake in 1509 in Istanbul.
iii. *** Cem's Revolt needs to be fixed.
A. *** It's Jem, not Cem.
B. *** Jem led two seperate revolts. So add a revolt risk for 12 months.
C. *** Option B. in the event unhistorical. Jem's terms were to divide the Empire, with Beyezid getting Europe and Jem getting Anatolia. In pracitce this would mean ceding all of the Ottomans Anatolian provinces to Karaman.
D. *** The event text needs to be changed. Jem did not spend the rest of his life with the Knights of St. Johns, but was "sold" to France, then the Pope, and then Naples.
iv. *** Navy and Administative Reforms of Beyezid II should also reduce Innovativeness and inflation. Beyezid wasn't as interested in the arts and sciences as his father (though he was tolerant, and interesed in the Shi'ite faith, he also began its persecution). He also counteracted some of the devaluation of the currency that happened under his father.B. *** Jem led two seperate revolts. So add a revolt risk for 12 months.
C. *** Option B. in the event unhistorical. Jem's terms were to divide the Empire, with Beyezid getting Europe and Jem getting Anatolia. In pracitce this would mean ceding all of the Ottomans Anatolian provinces to Karaman.
D. *** The event text needs to be changed. Jem did not spend the rest of his life with the Knights of St. Johns, but was "sold" to France, then the Pope, and then Naples.
v. *** Need an event for the destruction of Tabriz after the Ismailis take over Persia. If the Ottomans control Azerbaijan province (city of Tabriz): Establish CoT in Isfahan and remove CoT from Azerbaijan.
vi. *** Morisco's event needs to be redone. Historically, Ottoman fleet raided Spanish coast during the invasion of Grenada.
a. National Provinces (Cores).
i. *** Remove core from Cyrenaica from Conquests of Selim I.
ii. *** Remove core from Tabriz from Conquests of Selim I.
iii. *** Remove core from Hamadan from Conquests of Selim I.
iv. *** Add core on Kirkuk to Conquests of Selim I.
v. *** Add core on Batn al-Hajar to Conquests of Selim I.
vi. *** Add core on Medina to Conquests of Selim I.
vii. *** Add core on Mekkah to Conquests of Selim I.
viii. *** Add core on Orania to Conquests of Selim I.
ix. *** Add core on Atlas to Conquests of Selim I.
x. *** Add core on Aures to Conquests of Selim I.
xi. *** Add core on Al-Djazair to Conquests of Selim I.
xii. *** Add core on Kabylia to Conquests of Selim I.
b. Events.ii. *** Remove core from Tabriz from Conquests of Selim I.
iii. *** Remove core from Hamadan from Conquests of Selim I.
iv. *** Add core on Kirkuk to Conquests of Selim I.
v. *** Add core on Batn al-Hajar to Conquests of Selim I.
vi. *** Add core on Medina to Conquests of Selim I.
vii. *** Add core on Mekkah to Conquests of Selim I.
viii. *** Add core on Orania to Conquests of Selim I.
ix. *** Add core on Atlas to Conquests of Selim I.
x. *** Add core on Aures to Conquests of Selim I.
xi. *** Add core on Al-Djazair to Conquests of Selim I.
xii. *** Add core on Kabylia to Conquests of Selim I.
i. Need an event for converting the Christians of Anatolia under Selim I. Historic choice is no, but it almost happened.
ii. Player events for the fall of the Mamelukes.
ii. Player events for the fall of the Mamelukes.
A. *** Mamelukes should release Cyrenaica as vassal when conquered. Instead cede Cyrenaica to either Tripoli or Tunisia, whomever is bordering Cyrenaica.
B. *** Yemen should release Aden, Hadramaut, etc. as vassals. (The province of Yemen was seized by Mamelukes fleeing from the Hedjaz). If South Arabian countries are created at start, this will be an unneccessary event.
C. *** Event should allow Mamelukes to cede "Syria" (everything north of Sinai) and become vassal of Ottomans in exchange for not being annexed. Historical choice is no.
D. *** Mamelukes should be annexed by Ottomans, ala inhertences of Burgundy and Hungary.
B. *** Yemen should release Aden, Hadramaut, etc. as vassals. (The province of Yemen was seized by Mamelukes fleeing from the Hedjaz). If South Arabian countries are created at start, this will be an unneccessary event.
C. *** Event should allow Mamelukes to cede "Syria" (everything north of Sinai) and become vassal of Ottomans in exchange for not being annexed. Historical choice is no.
D. *** Mamelukes should be annexed by Ottomans, ala inhertences of Burgundy and Hungary.
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