• Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Paradox Space Exploration Sale has arrived! Up to 75% off

    How's the space on your hard drive? Paradox wants to challenge your galaxy brain with a great selection of space exploration games - and they're all on sale for some very down-to-earth prices! The sale runs from May 4th until May 10th at 17:00 CEST / 08:00 PDT.


    May 4th - May 10th
  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

chegitz guevara

Lord of the Horizons
60 Badges
May 14, 2001
3.297
91
www.absynthe.biz
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
I'm going to start a series of threads for the Ottomans, one for each century. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed or modeled and I figure it's easier to break the Ottomans down into specific centuries in order to tackle them. I'd like to keep it from the period of Mehmed I to Selim I, so despite the fact that Suleyman ascends the throne in 1520, let's just stop with Selim.

Please feel free to add problems I've forgotten (I'll add them to the following list). I will also list some related problems which might affect other countries.

Pink = To be debated
Pale Green = Proposed for 1.37
Plum = Doesn't involve Ottoman's until later, but needs to be fixed now
orange = Settled, rejected.
Light Blue = Settled, accepted.
Wheat = Accepted, in the AGCEEP.
*** Added later.

I. SET-UP
a. Cultures
i. Rumelia's starting religion should be Sunni, starting culture should be Turkish.
ii. Macedonia's starting culture should be Turkish, religion should be Sunni. Make an event for the Fall of Salonika instead.
iii. *** Smyrna's starting culture should be Turkish, religion should be Sunni.
iv. *** Sivas should be Turkish
v. *** Hamadan should be Kurdish
vi. *** Thrace's starting culture should be Turkish.
b. National Provinces (Cores)
i. Remove Ottoman's starting core on Thrace. It should be received in the City of Men's Desire event or the Conquest of Mehmet II, whichever comes first.
ii. Remove starting core on province of Serbia.
iii. Remove Ottoman's starting cores on Smyrna and Antalya.​
c. Relations, Alliances, etc.
i. The Ottoman's starting alliance needs better relations in order to keep from fragmenting too early.
ii. Make Byzantium a starting vassal of the Ottomans. Remove military access.
iii. Ak Koyunlu's starting relations with Ottomans is too high, considering the Ottoman's tried to conquer them less than 20 years ago.
iv. The Ghazi (Teke) and Karaman should be in a starting alliance with each other.

v. *** Candar represents the Ottoman vassals in Kastamonu.
vi. *** Ghazi (Teke) and Karaman should be vassals of the Ottomans and have poor starting relations with them. Remove military access from OE through Ghazi.​
d. Events.
i. Create an event that gives Ottomans a core on Walachia if Walachia is not owned by Walachia.
ii. The City of Men's Desire event should change Smyrna for Macedonia. Smyrna was majority Greek and Orthodox up to 1922. Macedonia was largely settled by Turks as it was conquered in the 14th Century and when Salonika fell in 1430, the Greeks largely abandoned it.
iii. The Patriarch event needs fixing. The first option currently is not the historical one, the second option is. Propose doing away with the first option altogether and looking at the second option for tweaking.
iv. Need events adding population to Thrace after it becomes part of OE.
v. Need event for the Fall of Rhodes, giving Ottomans choice whether or not to slaughter the Knights after promising them safe passage. If slaughtered, they don't get to reappear.
vi. ***Events that create Persia have wrong province as starting capital. Should be 487, Azerbaijan, which now has Tabriz as the city, not 530.
vii. *** Should Dobruja start out in rebellion or with a revolt risk? Sheik Bedrettin's revolt started in 1415-16, but was finally defeated in 1420. Perhaps a starting event?
viii. *** Need events for for Fall of Constanstinople.
A. *** Certain European countries should recieve -1 stab. Which ones?
B. *** Moslem (or Arab) countries should recieve +1 stab and better relations with Ottomans.​
ix. *** Create parallel set of events for players to gain cores by successes, rather than timed.
x. *** Create an event for the Fall of Salonika. In 1430, change the culture and religion of Macedonia to Turkish and Sunni.
xi. *** Create an ai-only event giving the Ottomans a navy.
xii. *** Create an ai-only event that grants all 15th Century cores to the OE and sleeps the monarch events.​
e. Misc.
i. Ottoman starting centralization needs to be revisited.
ii. ***Ottoman flag should be green, not red. The red was only adopted in the late 18th Century.
iii. Dofar should be moved from Oman to Mahra.
iv. Socotara should be a Yemeni colonial city, but Orthodox.

v.Population of Thrace should be tripled at start (to 30,000).
vi. Thrace fortifications should probably be raised. Constantinople managed to hold out for years when seiged until they were cut off by sea.

vii. *** Ghazi needs fixing. Half the territory represented by this country was Ottoman territory. Return Smyrna to Ottomans and change Gahzi back to Teke.
viii. *** Capital of Karaman needs to move to Konya.
ix. *** Move Ramazan revolter province to Taurus.
x. *** Move Dulkadir revolter province to Adana.

xi. *** City in Morea should be Mistra, not Nafplion.
xii. *** Ragusa province should be changed to Cattaro and made Slavonic, instead of Durrazo and Albanian.

xiii. *** Should Hejaz be removed as a country and made part of the Mamelukes?
xiv. *** Turkish spellings or English pronounciations?
xv. *** Restore Cyrenaica as a revolter. It was independent from 1517 to 1521 and from 1710 onwards.
xvi. *** Start the OE at infra level 1.
xvii. *** Remove initial cannon from OE.​
II. Murad II.
a. Stats.
i. Murad II is a vanilla monarch. Lord Kinross' history, The Ottoman Centuries, suggests he was a very able administrator. Make his Admin stats “Good.”
b. National Provinces (Cores).
i. Remove Ottoman cores on Albania and Bosnia from Murad II's conquest events.
ii. Add Smyrna to Murad II’s conquests.
iii. Add Antalya to Murad II’s conquests.​
c. Events.
i. Absorption of Ghazi events need to be removed, assuming the removal of Ghazi and restoation of Teke. Event annexing Teke should remain.
ii. Rebellion of Iskander Bey should have a bigger offset. Right now an Ottoman player knows that Albania will break away in 1444, so why bother improving it or conquering it?
iii. *** Need a Hexemilion event. Choice A, smash the Heximilion and vassalize Morea, gain 12 month CB on Byzantines. Choice B, let the Byzantines annex Morea. This will require Events for the Byzantines as well.

iv. *** Need events for Mustafa's (Murad II's brother) 1423 revolt, and DoW by Ghazi (Teke) and Karaman.
v. *** Pretender to the Throne (Murad II's uncle, Mustafa) event should grant Ottomans a 24 month CB on Byzantines.
vi. *** Text for Mustafa's revolt needs fixing. It's very inaccurate.​
III. Mehmet II
a. Stats.
i. Mehmed II's stats for his first reign should be revised downward. His first reign was a disaster.
b. National Provinces (Cores).
i. Add Bosnia core to Mehmet II's conquests.
ii. Add Serbia core to Mehmet II's conquests.
iii. Add Durazzo (Ragusa) core to Mehmet II's conquests, unless Ragusa province is changed to represent Cattaro. If Ragusa remains Durrazo, this should be in Beyezid II's conquests. If it becomes Cattaro, it should be removed al together.
iv. Remove core on Tarsus from Mehmet II's conquests.
v. Core on Albania should be given in a Death of Skanderbeg event.​
c. Events
i. Mehmed II needs a fratricide event.
ii. *** Tweak Serbian refugee events. They are too harsh.
iii. Need an event vassalizing Crimea to Ottomans and bringing them into the Ottoman alliance, around 1475 or the conquest of Theodoro, whichever comes first.

iv. Need a Fall of Karaman event.
A. *** When Konya fell, Cilia became independent. Model this by Konya granting independence to Ramazan in Taurus when Konya falls to Mehmet II.​
v. *** Fiscal Policies of Mehmet II should also increase the Ottoman's innovativeness. Mehmet II was a major patron of the arts and humanities, and many Byzantine Greeks and Italians began moving back to the Empire during his rule.
*** Use individual flavor events instead.
vi. *** Need event for the overthow of Mehmed II and the restoration of Murad II in 1446. If no European crusade, Mehmet should not be overthrown.
vii. *** Murad II should be lost as a leader at his retirement in 1444, and brought back if crusade happens.
viii. *** Need event breaking Morean vassalage.
IV. Beyezid II
a. National Provinces (Cores).
i. Add core to Adana in conquests of Beyzid II.
ii. Add core to Taurus in conquests of Beyzid II.

iii. Create an event that gives Ottomans a core on Moldavia if Moldavia is not owned by Moldavia after the Beyezid II conquest event.​
b. Events.
i. *** Events for the Jewish refugees from Spain who settle in the Ottoman Empire. Look at Moroccan and Algerian events for modeling.
ii. Earthquake in 1509 in Istanbul.
iii. *** Cem's Revolt needs to be fixed.
A. *** It's Jem, not Cem.
B. *** Jem led two seperate revolts. So add a revolt risk for 12 months.
C. *** Option B. in the event unhistorical. Jem's terms were to divide the Empire, with Beyezid getting Europe and Jem getting Anatolia. In pracitce this would mean ceding all of the Ottomans Anatolian provinces to Karaman.
D. *** The event text needs to be changed. Jem did not spend the rest of his life with the Knights of St. Johns, but was "sold" to France, then the Pope, and then Naples.​
iv. *** Navy and Administative Reforms of Beyezid II should also reduce Innovativeness and inflation. Beyezid wasn't as interested in the arts and sciences as his father (though he was tolerant, and interesed in the Shi'ite faith, he also began its persecution). He also counteracted some of the devaluation of the currency that happened under his father.
v. *** Need an event for the destruction of Tabriz after the Ismailis take over Persia. If the Ottomans control Azerbaijan province (city of Tabriz): Establish CoT in Isfahan and remove CoT from Azerbaijan.
vi. *** Morisco's event needs to be redone. Historically, Ottoman fleet raided Spanish coast during the invasion of Grenada.​
V. Selim I
a. National Provinces (Cores).
i. *** Remove core from Cyrenaica from Conquests of Selim I.
ii. *** Remove core from Tabriz from Conquests of Selim I.
iii. *** Remove core from Hamadan from Conquests of Selim I.

iv. *** Add core on Kirkuk to Conquests of Selim I.
v. *** Add core on Batn al-Hajar to Conquests of Selim I.
vi. *** Add core on Medina to Conquests of Selim I.
vii. *** Add core on Mekkah to Conquests of Selim I.
viii. *** Add core on Orania to Conquests of Selim I.
ix. *** Add core on Atlas to Conquests of Selim I.
x. *** Add core on Aures to Conquests of Selim I.
xi. *** Add core on Al-Djazair to Conquests of Selim I.
xii. *** Add core on Kabylia to Conquests of Selim I.
b. Events.
i. Need an event for converting the Christians of Anatolia under Selim I. Historic choice is no, but it almost happened.
ii. Player events for the fall of the Mamelukes.
A. *** Mamelukes should release Cyrenaica as vassal when conquered. Instead cede Cyrenaica to either Tripoli or Tunisia, whomever is bordering Cyrenaica.
B. *** Yemen should release Aden, Hadramaut, etc. as vassals. (The province of Yemen was seized by Mamelukes fleeing from the Hedjaz). If South Arabian countries are created at start, this will be an unneccessary event.
C. *** Event should allow Mamelukes to cede "Syria" (everything north of Sinai) and become vassal of Ottomans in exchange for not being annexed. Historical choice is no.
D. *** Mamelukes should be annexed by Ottomans, ala inhertences of Burgundy and Hungary.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(6159)

Field Marshal
Oct 23, 2001
9.458
0
Visit site
OK, I'll bite

chegitz guevara said:
* Rumelia's starting religion should be Sunni.
And Slavonic (or Rumanian)? What's the basis for this?
* Macedonia's starting culture should be Slavonic.
Greek seems pretty reasonable to me.
* Remove Ottoman's starting core on Thrace. It should be received in the City of Men's Desire event.
Will they get a CB so as to keep BB down? BB management is their biggest problem

* Give Mamelukes their own alliance: This is slated to be in 1.29, but I'd like us to take a look at it anyway.
unless this turns out very badly in game I think it should be kept.
* Rebellion of Iskander Bey should have a bigger offset. Right now an Ottoman player knows that Albania will break away in 1444, so why bother improving it or conquering it?
definitely agree
* The City of Men's Desire event should change Smyrna for Macedonia. Smyrna was majority Greek and Orthodox up to 1922. Macedonia was largely settled by Turks as it was conquered in the 14th Century and when Salonika fell in 1430, the Greeks largely abandoned it.
The city may have been (was) Greek, but that's an awfully large province we're talking about. Doesn't matter much though.

* Core on Albania should be given in a Death of Skanderbeg event.
* Add Durazzo (Ragusa) core to Mehmet II's conquests, unless Ragusa province is changed to represent Cattaro.
sure

* Player events for the fall of the Mamelukes.
I suspect there may be disagreement about this...
 

chegitz guevara

Lord of the Horizons
60 Badges
May 14, 2001
3.297
91
www.absynthe.biz
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
Isaac Brock said:
OK, I'll bite
And Slavonic (or Rumanian)? What's the basis for this?

Large numbers of Turks settled around Varna and large numbers of Bulgarians converted to Islam as well. I think together, the two should be enough to make the province Sunni.

Isaac Brock said:
Will they get a CB so as to keep BB down? BB management is their biggest problem

Yes. They should get a CB with the Pretender to the Throne event and in 1451 when the Ottomans will get the core again.

Isaac Brock said:
unless this turns out very badly in game I think it should be kept.

I just want to make sure it works. I'm not suggesting any changes at this point.

Isaac Brock said:
The city may have been (was) Greek, but that's an awfully large province we're talking about. Doesn't matter much though.

It would matter to the Venetians, who seem to try and take both Smyrna and Macedonia. Macedonia was largely Slavic and Turkish until the transfer of population following the Greco-Turk war after WWI. As for the City of Men's Desire event, that can occur before the Absoption of Ghazi events, in which case it will stay Greek and Orthodox anyway.For historical and game play reasons, I think's it's good to switch both.

Isaac Brock said:
I suspect there may be disagreement about this...

I'm sure there will be, but we have similar events for the fall of Hungary and Burgundy. It took two battles to bring down the Mamelukes, the first giving the Ottomans all of Syria down to Gaza, and the second one the rest of the empire.
 
Last edited:

doktarr

Wet Blanket
16 Badges
Aug 3, 2003
2.071
33
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
Isaac Brock said:
chegitz guevara said:
Remove Ottoman's starting core on Thrace. It should be received in the City of Men's Desire event.
Will they get a CB so as to keep BB down? BB management is their biggest problem
They could either get the core sometime before 1453, or they could get a BB reduction in the CoMD event (or one of the related events, like the one where they let the Patriarch be).
 

unmerged(7090)

Patrician
Jan 1, 2002
691
0
Visit site
On culture...

I'm with Isaac Brock on Smyrna. The 'Greek' portion was the IRL region of Smyrna, i.e. a patch of land around the city much smaller than the EUII territory. I think it's also important to keep in mind that many of the 'Greeks' of Smyrna were Turkish-speaking Greek Orthodox of Greek/Anatolian descent. These people were 'Greek' to the Byzantine/Ottoman mind and to the Balkan mind of the early 20th Century, but under the system we use in EUII, I think that they're better defined as Orthodox Turks (despite the fact that they would have called themselves 'Greek').

I'm with Chegitz on Macedonia. In the Early modern period, the Greek coast/peninsula in general had a much bigger Slavic-speaking population than it does today, yet in AGCEEP all of it (IIRC) is Greek. I think that making one of the provinces Slavic would be a good way to represent the large Slavic population that lived in the area in general.
 

chegitz guevara

Lord of the Horizons
60 Badges
May 14, 2001
3.297
91
www.absynthe.biz
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
Well, over in the V.I.P. forums, they have a 1911 census showing that region of the OE being slightly over half Greek and Orthodox. I realize that the EU2 regions of Smyrna also includes Mentese, Aydin, Germiyan, Hamit, and another area. If the number of Turks in the area was so great so early on, then it should be Turkish at start. If it happens later, we should add an event later.

Like I mentioned to IB though, if Smyrna is still a part of Ghazi when the City of Men's Desire event fires, Smyrna remains Greek and Orthodox.
 

Yakman

City of Washington, District of Columbia
26 Badges
Jan 5, 2004
6.197
4.421
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Deus Vult
  • For The Glory
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • 500k Club
chegitz guevara said:
* Socotara should be a Yemeni colonial city, but Orthodox

I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious as to this... I looked through the thread and didn't see a reason, but it sounds interesting to me....
 

Kaigon

Cake or Death?
48 Badges
Mar 15, 2002
4.216
0
kaigon.ripperdoc.net
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Sengoku
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Yakman said:
I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious as to this... I looked through the thread and didn't see a reason, but it sounds interesting to me....
It's something about Nestorians living on that island...
the portuguese seemed to have problems with them too...
 

unmerged(7090)

Patrician
Jan 1, 2002
691
0
Visit site
chegitz guevara said:
Well, over in the V.I.P. forums, they have a 1911 census showing that region of the OE being slightly over half Greek and Orthodox.

I wonder how many of those were Greek in the sense that we would use the term, though. I'd be surprised if more than half of them were Greek-speaking.

chegitz guevara said:
Like I mentioned to IB though, if Smyrna is still a part of Ghazi when the City of Men's Desire event fires, Smyrna remains Greek and Orthodox.

Ideally, I think it should be fairly easy for the controlling power (whoever it is) to switch the 'culture' between Greek & Turkish. I'm not sure that the religion should be changed, however: although I doubt that the previously mentioned 1911 census says much about nationality as we would understand it, I bet it does say a lot about religion (the yardstick Greeks and Turks would have used in 1911 to establish nationality).

EDIT: typo ('syas' instead of 'says')
 
Last edited:

Sokullu_Mehmet

Sergeant
77 Badges
Sep 19, 2003
69
23
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Iron Cross
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Empire of Sin
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
Firstly I am sorry beacuese of all grammer, spelling, using of right word and other mistakes, because My english isn't very good.

*After the City of Men's Desire Macedonia should be Moslem Greek and Smynra should be Orthodox Turkish. So Macedonia start greek and City of Men's Desire changed Macedonia to Moslem and Smynra into Turkish. Most of Ottoman sources splitted ethnic groups based on religion like Ottomans did so I think that culture should be based on the language that they spoke in that period.

*Ottomans tried to conquer and sieged Thrace before 1453 too so I think that they had claims on Thrace in 1419 so they should have core on Thrace.

*If core on Serbia will be removed, add casus belli for x years in the start.

*I don't know that is it a good idea that remove cores on Smynra and Antalya.

*1.c is generally good. Vassalizaton of Byzantium can cause problems in gameplay.

*I agreed in nearly all points of 1.d, I said in up my idea about Macedonia/Smynra issue. Population of Thrace should increased not a little bit it should increase very much.

*About 1.e, Ragusa was a a vassal of Ottomans as far as I know. In which way we should change centralization? Ottoman flag should be definetly green. Thrace was a dead city in the hand Byzantium Empire, but it was a dead city that had best fortifactions in the Europe probably. I can't comment others bacuase I don't have enough information about them to comment.

* About II.a,I agreed with you the economic skills of him should increased.

* About II.b, again I think that they had claims on albania and Bosnia like I said for Thrace.

* About II.c, good ideas. However I knew that before Mehmed II conquered Morea, there was a despot government which is like the remnant of Byzantine.

*About III.a, I oppose Bosnia and Albania cores :(. About Ragusa Ottomans can have a choice between vasalize or direct control of Raguse that gives core on Ragusa. I don't know much about Taurus issue.

*About III.b, Yasko and I prepeared events of Crimea and they are %99 completed I or he will post them in near. we can use them at least as a base. In Serbia we can add population to Thrace, because always Ottoman Monarchs wanted Thrace as only big city in the Empire. I agreed on others. Fall of Karaman is good. Also I think we need an event for the asasination of Veziriazam Candarli by Mehmed II, because after that all of Veziriazam were chosen among the devshirmes and this even shall increase centralaziton because in the history this increased power of palace.

*About IV.a, generally good. There can be a event to vassalize Moldovia (if there is I am sorry because I didn't saw it any time.)

* About Cem issue I had another and really different idea that is a litle like a fantasy event propsation. I think that firstly there should be event that we can choice between Bayezid and Cem. If Bayezid was chosen there should only choice a of the main event. If cem was chosen, revolts in Thrace and balkans, stabily should hit like -3 and revoltrisk for 60 months and higher revolt risks risks than choosing Bayezid. Also the death of Armies, because Cem would took throne against Ulema and Janniserries with support of onlt some but powerful devshirme politicans and some generals like Gedik Ahmed Pasha. However the event increase the innovativeness, centralization and quality, because most of historian claimed that Cem is more like Mehmed Ii and probably would a better King/Padishah than Bayezid. So also Cem should more good monarch stats and cores on Italy, because like Mehmed II he wanted to be like Roman Empire either. Also Bayezid should be historical chouce of course. About name issue, In Turkish history we learned him as Cem, but I don't about his name in English.

*About V. I agreed completely.
 

Norrefeldt

Porphyrogenitus
Aug 1, 2001
7.433
0
Visit site
C. *** Event should allow Mamelukes to cede "Syria" (everything north of Sinai) and become vassal of Ottomans in exchange for not being annexed. Historical choice is no.
This sounds like event 219001 in the Mameluke event file.

Need an event for converting the Christians of Anatolia under Selim I. Historic choice is no, but it almost happened.
Why should this be an event? Unless there were a dramatic historical expulsion or something extraodrinary this should be covered by the use of missionaries. At least that's my opinion.
 

unmerged(7090)

Patrician
Jan 1, 2002
691
0
Visit site
Hey Sokullu or Chegitz,

On a related note, do you know when the term 'Ghazi' started to be used with positive connotations to denote Ottoman soldiers? Was it pre-Mehmet II?

(I need the info for an event text.)
 

Yasko

Colonel
14 Badges
Feb 13, 2001
829
5
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Semper Fi
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
I. SET-UP
a. Cultures
i. Rumelia's starting religion should be Sunni.
ii. Macedonia's starting culture should be Slavonic.​

I agree....

b. National Provinces (Cores)
i. Remove Ottoman's starting core on Thrace. It should be received in the City of Men's Desire event or the Conquest of Mehmet II, whichever comes first.

Bad idea, Istanbul was allways a target for the Ottomans. They sieged the city as early as during Murad I(or was it Beyazid I?).

ii. Remove starting core on province of Serbia.

Why? Serbia was a Ottoman vassal before the Battle of Angora, they should still have a claim on it. Hungary and Ottomans fought constantly for the area. Hungary should also get a CB on Serbia.

iii. Remove Ottoman's starting cores on Smyrna and Antalya.​

Why? It did not take them too long to get those places.

c. Relations, Alliances, etc.
i. The Ottoman's starting alliance needs better relations in order to keep from fragmenting too early.
ii. Make Byzantium a starting vassal of the Ottomans. Remove military access.

Agree...

iii. Ak Koyunlu's starting relations with Ottomans is too high, considering the Ottoman's tried to conquer them less than 20 years ago.

Yeah, they did not have good relations IRL. They also had a huge battle at Otlukbeli between Uzun Hasan and Mehmed II.

iv. The Ghazi and Karaman should be in a starting alliance with each other. Both should be vassals of the Ottomans and have poor starting relations with them. Remove military access from OE through Ghazi.
v. ***What does Candar represent, the Ottoman vassals in Kastamonu or the Jandarid's in Sinope, their enemies?
vi. Lower starting relations with Mamelukes: This is slated to be in 1.29, but I'd like us to take a look at it anyway.

Well, their relation was not bad until the first war between them late 1400s, even before the conquest of Egypt, during Beyazid II, Ottomans asisted the Mamlukes to improve their navy. Also note that during the huge "BB" war Mehmed found itself after the Conquest of Istanbul, Memlukes were few of the powerful neighbours that were neutral.


vii. Give Mamelukes their own alliance: This is slated to be in 1.29, but I'd like us to take a look at it anyway.
d. Events.
i. Create an event that gives Ottomans a core on Walachia if Walachia is not owned by Walachia.

i agree.

ii. The City of Men's Desire event should change Smyrna for Macedonia. Smyrna was majority Greek and Orthodox up to 1922. Macedonia was largely settled by Turks as it was conquered in the 14th Century and when Salonika fell in 1430, the Greeks largely abandoned it.

Smyrna may have been pre-dominatly greek, but the area the province represents were not...

iii. The Patriarch event needs fixing. The first option currently is not the historical one, the second option is. Propose doing away with the first option altogether and looking at the second option for tweaking.
iv. Need events adding population to Thrace after it becomes part of OE.
v. Need event for the Fall of Rhodes, giving Ottomans choice whether or not to slaughter the Knights after promising them safe passage. If slaughtered, they don't get to reappear.​

I agree with all of the above.

e. Misc.
i. Ottoman starting centralization needs to be revisited.
ii. ***Ottoman flag should be green, not red. The red was only adopted in the late 18th Century.

The red did not appear untill 1800s i think. The green was better.

iii. Dofar should be moved from Oman to Yemen.
iv. Socotara should be a Yemeni colonial city, but Orthodox
v.Population of Thrace should be tripled at start.

What about Ottoman cores for North Africa and East afrika all the way down to Somalia? They did conquer these areas IRL.


vi. Thrace fortifications should probably be raised. Constantinople managed to hold out for years when seiged until they were cut off by sea.


Yeppp..
vii. Ghazi needs fixing. Half the territory represented by this country was Ottoman territory.

AGC was better simulating this. Just remove Ghazi state and put in the old events.

viii. *** Capital of Karaman needs to move to Konya.
ix. *** Move Ramazan revolter province to Taurus.
x. *** Move Dulkadir revolter province to Adana.
xi. *** City in Morea should be Mistra, not Nafplion.
xii. *** Ragusa province should be changed to Cattaro and made Slavonic, instead of Durrazo and Albanian.
II. Murad II.
a. Stats.
i. Murad II is a vanilla monarch. Lord Kinross' history, The Ottoman Centuries, suggests he was a very able administrator. Do his stats need tweaking? Make his Admin stats “Good?”​
b. National Provinces (Cores).

I agree on all the above.

i. Remove Ottoman cores on Albania and Bosnia from Murad II's conquest events.
ii. Add Smyrna to Murad II’s conquests.
iii. Add Antalya to Murad II’s conquests.​
c. Events.
i. Absorption of Ghazi events need fixing: This is slated to be in 1.29, but I'd like us to take a look at it anyway.
ii. Rebellion of Iskander Bey should have a bigger offset. Right now an Ottoman player knows that Albania will break away in 1444, so why bother improving it or conquering it?
iii. *** Need a Hexemilion event. Choice A, smash the Heximilion and vassalize Morea. Choice B, let the Byzantines annex Morea. This will require Events for the Byzantines as well.
iv. *** Need events for Mustafa's 1423 revolt, and DoW by Ghazi and Karaman.​
III. Mehmet II
a. National Provinces (Cores).

I dont like the way cores are handled with current setup. Its too deterministic. Either give large chunks of CBs or make trigger events so that once you manage to get some/all of the cores, an event gives the next level. You start with the 1492 cores, if you get them, then you get the Cores of Egypt, if you conquer Egypt, you get Hungary Cores etc. We could at least get the cores of 1402 borders at the start....

i. Add Bosnia core to Mehmet II's conquests.
ii. Add Serbia core to Mehmet II's conquests.
iii. Add Durazzo (Ragusa) core to Mehmet II's conquests, unless Ragusa province is changed to represent Cattaro.
iv. Remove core on Tarsus from Mehmet II's conquests.
v. Core on Albania should be given in a Death of Skanderbeg event.​
b. Events
i. Mehmed II needs a fratricide event.
ii. *** Tweak Serbian refugee events. They are too harsh.
iii. Need an event vassalizing Crimea to Ottomans and bringing them into the Ottoman alliance, around 1475 or the conquest of Theodoro, whichever comes first.

Sokullu Mehmed makes one, i hope that he can post it here soon.

iv. Need a Fall of Karaman event.
A. *** When Konya fell, Cilia became independent. Model this by Konya granting independence to Ramazan in Taurus when Konya falls to Mehmet II.​
IV. Beyezid II
a. National Provinces (Cores).
i. Add core to Adana in conquests of Beyzid II.
ii. Add core to Taurus in conquests of Beyzid II.
iii. Create an event that gives Ottomans a core on Moldavia if Moldavia is not owned by Moldavia after the Beyezid II conquest event.​
b. Events.
i. *** Events for the Jewish refugees from Spain who settle in the Ottoman Empire. Look at Moroccan and Algerian events for modeling.
ii. Earthquake in 1509 in Istanbul.
iii. *** Cem's Revolt needs to be fixed.
A. *** It's Jem, not Cem (sometimes Cjem).
B. *** Jem led two seperate revolts. So add a revolt risk for 12 months.
C. *** Option B. in the event unhistorical. Jem's terms were to divide the Empire, with Beyezid getting Europe and Jem getting Anatolia. In pracitce this would mean ceding all of the Ottomans Anatolian provinces to Karaman.
D. *** The event text needs to be changed. Jem did not spend the rest of his life with the Knights of St. Johns, but was "sold" to France, then the Pope, and then Naples.​
V. Selim I
a. National Provinces (Cores).
i. *** Remove core from Cyrenaica from Conquests of Selim I.
ii. *** Remove core from Tabriz from Conquests of Selim I.
iii. *** Remove core from Hamadan from Conquests of Selim I.
iv. *** Add core on Kirkuk to Conquests of Selim I.
v. *** Add core on Batn al-Hajar to Conquests of Selim I.​
b. Events.
i. Need an event for converting the Christians of Anatolia under Selim I. Historic choice is no, but it almost happened.
ii. Player events for the fall of the Mamelukes.
A. *** Mamelukes should release Cyrenaica as vassal when conquered.
B. *** Yemen should release Aden, Hadramaut, etc. as vassals. (The province of Yemen was seized by Mamelukes fleeing from the Hedjaz). If South Arabian countries are created at start, this will be an unneccessary event.
C. *** Event should allow Mamelukes to cede "Syria" (everything north of Sinai) and become vassal of Ottomans in exchange for not being annexed. Historical choice is no.
D. *** Mamelukes should be annexed by Ottomans, ala inhertences of Burgundy and Hungary.​
[/QUOTE]

Nice ideas about the mamlukes and Sultan Cem... I would also like to see an event about Piri Reis and his famous map.
 

Arilou

Irken Tallest
99 Badges
Aug 24, 2002
8.122
429
Visit site
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • King Arthur II
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
Norrefeldt said:
This sounds like event 219001 in the Mameluke event file.

Why should this be an event? Unless there were a dramatic historical expulsion or something extraodrinary this should be covered by the use of missionaries. At least that's my opinion.

I think the point is that he INTENDED a dramatic expulsion of christians but was overruled by his Sheik-ul-Islam (or whatever the highest official bigwig in koranic law was called) Basically he declared that forcing People of the Book to convert that way contradicted koranic law.
 

chegitz guevara

Lord of the Horizons
60 Badges
May 14, 2001
3.297
91
www.absynthe.biz
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
Loseth,
Ghazi's were holy warriors. The term was used before the Ottomans.

Norrefeldt,
1. I wasn't sure whether that event made the transition from AGC or not. Guess I shoulda have checked first.
2. Selim was planning on doing something akin to what the Spanish did, convert, execute, and expell. He just decicded not to.

Sokullu_Mehmet,
According to Lord Kinross's Ottoman history, the peasantry of Anatolia was mostly Greek and Christian, and they would constitute the majority of the population. Macedonia, up until less than a hundred years ago, was more Slavic and Turkish than Greek.

While the Ottomans did lay seige to Constantinople twice before 1453 (and at least two other times as allies of one Byzantine faction or another), they only did so when they had a CB.

The Ottomans will still have a core on Kosovo, so there will still be fighting between the two countries.

In AGCEEP, Ragusa doesn't represent Ragusa. They didn't do anything during the game period except during the Napolionic Wars, when they got captured. In AGCEEP, the map province of Ragusa currently represents the Venetian holding of Durrazo (Albanian Durres). I'm advocating a change to Cattaro, which was an important part of the Venetian Republic, threatened by the Ottomans, but never captured.

IIb. They did have claims on Albania and Bosnia, but for most of Murad II's reign, they were vassals, and not integral parts of the Empire.

IIc. In 1444, the Byzantines seized the rest of Morea from the Latins (who were paying tribute to the Ottomans, and thus considered by them, vassals). Murad II sent his army down and smashed through the Heximilion, restored the Latins and made the Byzantines in Morea his vassals.

IViii. I generally see the name written Jem, but if you learned Cem, I would take your word for it. As for the sequence of events, while Cem would be a better leader than Beyezid, it would mean a new set of fantasy options, since Selim and his son Suleiman would have been strangled.
 

chegitz guevara

Lord of the Horizons
60 Badges
May 14, 2001
3.297
91
www.absynthe.biz
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
iii. Remove Ottoman's starting cores on Smyrna and Antalya.

Yasko said:
Why? It did not take them too long to get those places.

They'll get them in 1421, with Murad II. It makes the acquisition of cores a little more consistant. I know you dislike this method of gaining cores, but I think it's better for the ai, because it drives it in a more historical direction. It is also more consisten with the rest of the game, where Russian and couple other countries get progressive cores.


vi. Lower starting relations with Mamelukes: This is slated to be in 1.29, but I'd like us to take a look at it anyway.


Yasko said:
Well, their relation was not bad until the first war between them late 1400s, even before the conquest of Egypt, during Beyazid II, Ottomans asisted the Mamlukes to improve their navy. Also note that during the huge "BB" war Mehmed found itself after the Conquest of Istanbul, Memlukes were few of the powerful neighbours that were neutral.

How would you suggest handling this? The problem we are attempting to solve is with Ottoman/Mameluke alliances.

ii. The City of Men's Desire event should change Smyrna for Macedonia. Smyrna was majority Greek and Orthodox up to 1922.

Yasko said:
Smyrna may have been pre-dominatly greek, but the area the province represents were not...

Again, as noted, the majority of the peasanty, which would be the majority of the population, were Greek and Orthodox throughout Anatolia.

Yasko said:
What about Ottoman cores for North Africa and East afrika all the way down to Somalia? They did conquer these areas IRL.

Most of those conquests occured after the period we are discussing, Under Suleiman and Selim II. I agree they should be added. I proposed adding them in EEP, but nott all of the cores were added by the powers-that-be.

vii. Ghazi needs fixing. Half the territory represented by this country was Ottoman territory.

Yasko said:
AGC was better simulating this. Just remove Ghazi state and put in the old events.

I'd leave it as Ghazi, or give it a better name, but turn Antalya over to the Ottomans (in which case it should be considered a national province from the start).

iii. Need an event vassalizing Crimea to Ottomans and bringing them into the Ottoman alliance, around 1475 or the conquest of Theodoro, whichever comes first.

Yasko said:
Sokullu Mehmed makes one, i hope that he can post it here soon.

Great, I hope to see it.

Yasko said:
I would also like to see an event about Piri Reis and his famous map.

As would I, unfortunately, we can't grant maps via event.
 

Sokullu_Mehmet

Sergeant
77 Badges
Sep 19, 2003
69
23
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Iron Cross
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Empire of Sin
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
"According to Lord Kinross's Ottoman history, the peasantry of Anatolia was mostly Greek and Christian, and they would constitute the majority of the population. Macedonia, up until less than a hundred years ago, was more Slavic and Turkish than Greek."

*I accepted that most of the Smynra people were Orthodox even including that provinces. However the problem about the cultures is, most of historical sources considered all people who are Orthodox is greek and people who are Moslem is Turkish because Ottomans considedered and taxed them like that. I mean that the people in Smynra were Orthodox but spoke Turkish. So Smynra should be orthodox Turkish after the City of Men's Desire and the people in Macedonia were Moslem but don't speak Turkish so they should be Moslem Greek/Slavonic. About greek/slavonic issue I knew that they are greek but I am not sure if you are sure about that they are Slavonic and most of people agreed, make them Slavonic.

"While the Ottomans did lay seige to Constantinople twice before 1453 (and at least two other times as allies of one Byzantine faction or another), they only did so when they had a CB."

*I think that Thrace was always a claim for Ottomans. I didn't mean only the speech of Mohammed that targeted Thrace, but Byzantine was always a problem and thrace was always was a need for Ottomans. So I think they should have core on Thrace from start.

"The Ottomans will still have a core on Kosovo, so there will still be fighting between the two countries."

*Ok

"In AGCEEP, Ragusa doesn't represent Ragusa. They didn't do anything during the game period except during the Napolionic Wars, when they got captured. In AGCEEP, the map province of Ragusa currently represents the Venetian holding of Durrazo (Albanian Durres). I'm advocating a change to Cattaro, which was an important part of the Venetian Republic, threatened by the Ottomans, but never captured."

*I didn't knew about Durazzo, so I couldn't comment. However as far as I understood from your words Ottomans had claims on it so we need a core on there either.

"IIb. They did have claims on Albania and Bosnia, but for most of Murad II's reign, they were vassals, and not integral parts of the Empire."

*However they had claims. Even they were vassals we knew that it wasn't a vassal relation like Ottomans had with Crimea. So I think that they should have.

"IIc. In 1444, the Byzantines seized the rest of Morea from the Latins (who were paying tribute to the Ottomans, and thus considered by them, vassals). Murad II sent his army down and smashed through the Heximilion, restored the Latins and made the Byzantines in Morea his vassals."

*However after the conquest of Istanbul Mehemd II conquered Morea and took control of it directly. So we need an event that broke or inhreit the vassal between 1444-conquest of Thrace if we vassalize them.

"IViii. I generally see the name written Jem, but if you learned Cem, I would take your word for it. As for the sequence of events, while Cem would be a better leader than Beyezid, it would mean a new set of fantasy options, since Selim and his son Suleiman would have been strangled."

* About Jem/Cem I dont know his name in English because I didn't saw his name in English before, In Turkish it is Cem, I know that. So if it is in english turned into Jem ofr we can write Cem (Jem) Sultan. Names aren't importnant either. About the heirs issue, I didn't think like that we should change than all sultans till the end, not only those two. I think there was other monarch chaenges events for other countries too. This event give more flexibility and more chance to change like fantasy to Ottoman players that they hadn't with those events. Actually I think that Ottomans are the country that had less fantasy choices in AGCEEP in major powers.
 

Sokullu_Mehmet

Sergeant
77 Badges
Sep 19, 2003
69
23
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Iron Cross
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Empire of Sin
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
Crimean Events

event = {
id = 301031
trigger = {
exists = TUR
NOT = {
control = { province = 464 data = CRI } #Kaffa controlled by Crimea Khanate
}

}
random = no
country = CRI
name = "We need help"
desc = "In 1461, Ottomans already controlled the south coasts of Black Sea. In 1475, they found a chance to control the north coasts of Black Sea. There were Genoese trade colonies in Kaffa like in the coasts of Anatolia. During this time, there was also a khanate that was founded by family of Giray after the disintegration of Golden Horde. As early as 1454 Ottomans had diplomatic relation with Crimea Khanate, they fought in an alliance against Genoa in Kaffa and Ottomans sent a fleet to Crimea. After twenty years, when the domestic politics of Crimea Khanate was disorganized and the relations between Kaffa and Crimea were uncertain, the Ottoman fleets opened a campaign to Kaffa again. At the end of this campaign, Ottomans took control of all Genoese colonies including Kaffa and Azov and the Crimean Khan submitted to the Sublime Port as a vassal. In the coasts of Black Sea only Moldavia could resist to the Ottoman invasion with the support of Poland-Lithuania."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 1 month = may year = 1500 }

action_a ={
name = "We need help of great Turks"
command = { type = trigger which = 301032 }
}
action_b ={
name = "Giraj family is strong enough"
command = { type = sleepevent which = 301032 }
command = { type = land value = 1000 }
command = { type = naval value = 1000 }
}
}

event = {
id = 301032
trigger = {
exists = CRI
owned = { province = 1609 data = -1 } #Kastamonu
owned = { province = 357 data = -1 } #Thrace
owned = { province = 475 data = -1 } #Trabzon
owned = { province = 477 data = -1 } #Anatolia
owned = { province = 321 data = -1 } #Rumelia
owned = { province = 464 data = -1 } #Kaffa
event = 301031
}
random = no
country = TUR
name = "Crimea submitted to us Sir"
desc = "In 1461, Ottomans already controlled the south coasts of Black Sea. In 1475, they found a chance to control the north coasts of Black Sea. There were Genoese trade colonies in Kaffa like in the coasts of Anatolia. During this time, there was also a khanate that was founded by family of Giray after the disintegration of Golden Horde. As early as 1454 Ottomans had diplomatic relation with Crimea Khanate, they fought in an alliance against Genoa in Kaffa and Ottomans sent a fleet to Crimea. After twenty years, when the domestic politics of Crimea Khanate was disorganized and the relations between Kaffa and Crimea were uncertain, the Ottoman fleets opened a campaign to Kaffa again. At the end of this campaign, Ottomans took control of all Genoese colonies including Kaffa and Azov and the Crimean Khan submitted to the Sublime Port as a vassal. In the coasts of Black Sea only Moldavia could resist to the Ottoman invasion with the support of Poland-Lithuania."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 1 month = may year = 1500 }

action_a ={
name = "We accept their submission and continue to Turkish Black Sea project with our vassal"
command = { type = vassal which = CRI }
command = { type = relation which = CRI value = 400 }
command = { type = alliance which = CRI }
command = { type = addcore which = 470 } #Georgia
command = { type = removecore which = 464 } #Kaffa
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 464 } #Kaffa
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 463 } #Crimea
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 296 } #Jedisan
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 465 } #Kerch
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 462 } #Kremntjung
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 459 } #Lugansk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 460 } #Donetsk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 467 } #Kalmuk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 468 } #Kouban
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 469 } #Sochi
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 466 } #Azow
command = { type = trigger which = 301033 }
}
action_b ={
name = "Leave those mongol rebels alone"
command = { type = relation which = CRI value = -50 }
command = { type = badboy value = -2 }
command = { type = relation which = STE value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = MOS value = 50 }
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 301033 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 301040 }
}
action_c ={
name = "We will control the north coasts directly too"
command = { type = addcore which = 463 } #Crimea
command = { type = addcore which = 296 } #Jedisan
command = { type = addcore which = 464 } #Kaffa
command = { type = addcore which = 465 } #Kerch
command = { type = addcore which = 462 } #Kremntjung
command = { type = addcore which = 466 } #Azow
command = { type = addcore which = 469 } #Sochi
command = { type = addcore which = 470 } #Georgia
command = { type = stability value = -3 }
command = { type = relation which = CRI value = -150 }
command = { type = relation which = STE value = -100 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = MOS value = -50 }
command = { type = casusbelli which = CRI value = 240 }
command = { type = casusbelli which = STE value = 180 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 301033 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 301040 }
}
}

event = {
id = 301033
trigger = {
event = 301032
}
random = no
country = CRI
name = "They accepted our submission"
desc = "Mehmed II wanted to control Black Sea. So he accepted the submission of Crimea Khanate."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 2 month = may year = 1820 }

action_a ={
name = "From now on, we have a big support."
command = { type = religion which = sunni }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = turkish }
command = { type = provincemanpower which = -2 value = 3 }
command = { type = land value = 3000 }
command = { type = naval value = 5000 }
command = { type = cash value = 500 }
command = { type = domestic which = quality value = 1 }
command = { type = stability value = 2 }
command = { type = fortress which = -2 value = 1 }
command = { type = conversion which = -2 }
command = { type = conversion which = -1 }
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 2 }
command = { type = addcore which = 463 } #Crimea
command = { type = addcore which = 296 } #Jedisan
command = { type = addcore which = 464 } #Kaffa
command = { type = addcore which = 465 } #Kerch
command = { type = addcore which = 462 } #Kremntjung
command = { type = addcore which = 459 } #Lugansk
command = { type = addcore which = 460 } #Donetsk
command = { type = addcore which = 467 } #Kalmuk
command = { type = addcore which = 468 } #Kouban
command = { type = addcore which = 469 } #Sochi
command = { type = addcore which = 466 } #Azow
}
}

event = {
id = 301034
trigger = {
event = 301033
OR = {
owned = { province = 463 data = -1 } #Crimea
owned = { province = 296 data = -1 } #Jedisan
owned = { province = 464 data = -1 } #Kaffa
owned = { province = 465 data = -1 } #Kerch
owned = { province = 462 data = -1 } #Kremntjung
owned = { province = 459 data = -1 } #Lugansk
owned = { province = 460 data = -1 } #Donetsk
owned = { province = 467 data = -1 } #Kalmuk
owned = { province = 468 data = -1 } #Kouban
owned = { province = 469 data = -1 } #Sochi
owned = { province = 466 data = -1 } #Azow
}

}
random = no
country = STE
name = "Sir! The Crimeans wants our lands with the support of powerful Ottomans."
desc = "After the acception of submission, the Crimea Khanate used Ottomans' strength and influence to grow their khanate and threatened their enemies with the power of Ottomans."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 2 month = may year = 1500 }

action_a ={
name = "Give the lands they want"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 463 } #Crimea
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 296 } #Jedisan
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 464 } #Kaffa
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 465 } #Kerch
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 462 } #Kremntjung
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 459 } #Lugansk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 460 } #Donetsk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 467 } #Kalmuk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 468 } #Kouban
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 469 } #Sochi
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 466 } #Azow
}
action_b ={
name = "Declare a war"
command = { type = stability value = -6 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -2 value = 10000 }
command = { type = war which = CRI }
command = { type = war which = TUR }
}
}

event = {
id = 301035
trigger = {
event = 301033
OR = {
owned = { province = 463 data = -1 } #Crimea
owned = { province = 296 data = -1 } #Jedisan
owned = { province = 464 data = -1 } #Kaffa
owned = { province = 465 data = -1 } #Kerch
owned = { province = 462 data = -1 } #Kremntjung
owned = { province = 459 data = -1 } #Lugansk
owned = { province = 460 data = -1 } #Donetsk
owned = { province = 467 data = -1 } #Kalmuk
owned = { province = 468 data = -1 } #Kouban
owned = { province = 469 data = -1 } #Sochi
owned = { province = 466 data = -1 } #Azow
}

}
random = no
country = POL
name = "Sir! The Crimeans wants our lands with the support of powerful Ottomans."
desc = "After the acception of submission, the Crimea Khanate used Ottomans' strength and influence to grow their khanate and threatened their enemies with the power of Ottomans."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 2 month = may year = 1500 }

action_a ={
name = "Give the lands they want"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 463 } #Crimea
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 296 } #Jedisan
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 464 } #Kaffa
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 465 } #Kerch
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 462 } #Kremntjung
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 459 } #Lugansk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 460 } #Donetsk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 467 } #Kalmuk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 468 } #Kouban
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 469 } #Sochi
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 466 } #Azow
}
action_b ={
name = "Declare a war"
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -2 value = 10000 }
command = { type = war which = CRI }
command = { type = war which = TUR }
}
}

event = {
id = 301036
trigger = {
event = 301033
OR = {
owned = { province = 463 data = -1 } #Crimea
owned = { province = 296 data = -1 } #Jedisan
owned = { province = 464 data = -1 } #Kaffa
owned = { province = 465 data = -1 } #Kerch
owned = { province = 462 data = -1 } #Kremntjung
owned = { province = 459 data = -1 } #Lugansk
owned = { province = 460 data = -1 } #Donetsk
owned = { province = 467 data = -1 } #Kalmuk
owned = { province = 468 data = -1 } #Kouban
owned = { province = 469 data = -1 } #Sochi
owned = { province = 466 data = -1 } #Azow
}

}
random = no
country = GEN
name = "Sir! The Crimeans wants our lands with the support of powerful Ottomans."
desc = "After the acception of submission, the Crimea Khanate used Ottomans' strength and influence to grow their khanate and threatened their enemies with the power of Ottomans."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 2 month = may year = 1500 }

action_a ={
name = "Give the lands they want"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 463 } #Crimea
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 296 } #Jedisan
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 464 } #Kaffa
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 465 } #Kerch
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 462 } #Kremntjung
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 459 } #Lugansk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 460 } #Donetsk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 467 } #Kalmuk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 468 } #Kouban
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 469 } #Sochi
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 466 } #Azow
}
action_b ={
name = "Declare a war"
command = { type = stability value = -4 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -2 value = 10000 }
command = { type = war which = CRI }
command = { type = war which = TUR }
}
}

event = {
id = 301037
trigger = {
event = 301033
OR = {
owned = { province = 463 data = -1 } #Crimea
owned = { province = 296 data = -1 } #Jedisan
owned = { province = 464 data = -1 } #Kaffa
owned = { province = 465 data = -1 } #Kerch
owned = { province = 462 data = -1 } #Kremntjung
owned = { province = 459 data = -1 } #Lugansk
owned = { province = 460 data = -1 } #Donetsk
owned = { province = 467 data = -1 } #Kalmuk
owned = { province = 468 data = -1 } #Kouban
owned = { province = 469 data = -1 } #Sochi
owned = { province = 466 data = -1 } #Azow
}

}
random = no
country = GEO
name = "Sir! The Crimeans wants our lands with the support of powerful Ottomans."
desc = "After the acception of submission, the Crimea Khanate used Ottomans' strength and influence to grow their khanate and threatened their enemies with the power of Ottomans."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 2 month = may year = 1500 }

action_a ={
name = "Give the lands they want"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 463 } #Crimea
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 296 } #Jedisan
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 464 } #Kaffa
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 465 } #Kerch
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 462 } #Kremntjung
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 459 } #Lugansk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 460 } #Donetsk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 467 } #Kalmuk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 468 } #Kouban
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 469 } #Sochi
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 466 } #Azow
}
action_b ={
name = "Declare a war"
command = { type = stability value = -4 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -2 value = 10000 }
command = { type = war which = CRI }
command = { type = war which = TUR }
}
}

event = {
id = 301038
trigger = {
event = 301033
OR = {
owned = { province = 463 data = -1 } #Crimea
owned = { province = 296 data = -1 } #Jedisan
owned = { province = 464 data = -1 } #Kaffa
owned = { province = 465 data = -1 } #Kerch
owned = { province = 462 data = -1 } #Kremntjung
owned = { province = 459 data = -1 } #Lugansk
owned = { province = 460 data = -1 } #Donetsk
owned = { province = 467 data = -1 } #Kalmuk
owned = { province = 468 data = -1 } #Kouban
owned = { province = 469 data = -1 } #Sochi
owned = { province = 466 data = -1 } #Azow
}

}
random = no
country = LIT
name = "Sir! The Crimeans wants our lands with the support of powerful Ottomans."
desc = "After the acception of submission, the Crimea Khanate used Ottomans' strength and influence to grow their khanate and threatened their enemies with the power of Ottomans."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 2 month = may year = 1500 }

action_a ={
name = "Give the lands they want"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 463 } #Crimea
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 296 } #Jedisan
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 464 } #Kaffa
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 465 } #Kerch
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 462 } #Kremntjung
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 459 } #Lugansk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 460 } #Donetsk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 467 } #Kalmuk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 468 } #Kouban
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 469 } #Sochi
command = { type = secedeprovince which = CRI value = 466 } #Azow
}
action_b ={
name = "Declare a war"
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -2 value = 10000 }
command = { type = war which = CRI }
command = { type = war which = TUR }
}
}

event = {
id = 301039
trigger = {
control = { province = 464 data = TUR } #Kaffa controlled by Ottoman Empire
NOT = {
owned = { province = 464 data = TUR } #Kaffa owned by Ottoman Empire
}
}
random = no
province= 464
name = "Kaffa was conquered by Ottomans."
desc = "Mehemd II wanted to conquer Kaffa, because it is one of most importnant trade cities in the north coasts of Black Sea. He sent Ottoman fleet to Kaffa to control that wealthy city."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 2 month = may year = 1500 }

action_a ={
name = "Kaffa is lost."
command = { type = secedeprovince which = TUR value = 464 } #Kaffa
}
action_b ={
name = "Continue to war"
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
}
}

event = {
id = 301040
trigger = {
AND = {
OR = {
owned = { province = 463 data = TUR } #Crimea
owned = { province = 463 data = CRI } #Crimea
}
OR = {
owned = { province = 296 data = TUR } #Jedisan
owned = { province = 296 data = CRI } #Jedisan
}
OR = {
owned = { province = 464 data = TUR } #Kaffa
owned = { province = 464 data = CRI } #Kaffa
}
OR = {
owned = { province = 465 data = TUR } #Kerch
owned = { province = 465 data = CRI } #Kerch
}
OR = {
owned = { province = 462 data = TUR } #Kremtjung
owned = { province = 462 data = CRI } #Kremtjung
}
OR = {
owned = { province = 466 data = TUR } #Azow
owned = { province = 466 data = CRI } #Azow
}
OR = {
owned = { province = 469 data = TUR } #Sochi
owned = { province = 469 data = CRI } #Sochi
}
OR = {
owned = { province = 470 data = TUR } #Georgia
owned = { province = 470 data = CRI } #Georgia
}
OR = {
owned = { province = 319 data = TUR } #Bujak
owned = { province = 319 data = CRI } #Bujak
}
owned = { province = 1609 data = TUR } #Kastamonu
owned = { province = 357 data = TUR } #Thrace
owned = { province = 475 data = TUR } #Trabzon
owned = { province = 477 data = TUR } #Anatolia
owned = { province = 321 data = TUR } #Rumelia
}

}
random = no
country = TUR
name = "After that day, Black Sea is a only Turkish Sea. "
desc = "After Bujak was conquered by Ottomans in the period of Beyazid II, the all coasts of Black Sea either directly controlled by Ottoman Emprie or their dear vassal, Crimea Khanate."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 2 month = may year = 1600 }

action_a ={
name = "Celebrate this!"
command = { type = stability value = 2 }
command = { type = cash value = 200 }
command = { type = trade value = 2000 }
command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = 2 }
}
}
 

Yasko

Colonel
14 Badges
Feb 13, 2001
829
5
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Semper Fi
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
chegitz guevara said:
Again, as noted, the majority of the peasanty, which would be the majority of the population, were Greek and Orthodox throughout Anatolia.

No, it was not... I have posted info from Halil Inalcik(Economic and social history of the Ottoman Empire, Volume I) about this in the old IGC thread, Almost all anatolia west of euphrates with the exception of the easteren black sea coast(NOT the whole Trapezund province in EU!!) and some cities like sinope and smyrna were pre-dominantly turkish. Most of the immigration and the conversations in anatolia happened during the Seldjuk times.