Ottoman,

[john.kilmartin5]

Ok I've played Japan and within 20/30 years aggressive modernisation has lead to a wealthy nation that is very relient on importing cheap resources and then selling on more expensive manufactured goods (this is a generalisation not the resource type) I also clocked that if you but a few extra resources you can sell those resources on to other minor nations (as they never seem to buy from each other) which in turn helps your relations and makes trade more likely and (I think) more profitable, as they in turn then buy more of my goods. Of course I'm still waiting on the Meji events so I can start really developing and throwing my weight around and distracted my self by fighting a very long war against Burma, much to the irritation of the British which may yet blow up in my face but hey its a nice distraction, from the run of the mill trade and fine balancing of income vs demand + output.

So having grasped a few basics I thought I'd distract myself and have a look at the Ottomans ,,, but man I'm only on turn 2 and I can see that this is going to be a very different game as Asia minor looks very undeveloped and the empire appears to be resource strapped, oh and nooo one really seems happy... so can there be any advice on the direction to take as I'm guessing this is going to be a long way of aggressive industrialisation and more a case of getting out house in order, and actually producing and selling resources, while trying to keep the rebs down (easier said than done), so would a small (but successful) war against a minor help unify the nation? and what direction is it best to start with with the economy?

 

[unmerged(248351)]

I've played the Ottomans until 1865 in 1.02 and I have to say that they are extremely enjoyable. Starting with nothing made it much more fun for me, since it takes that much more until your swimming in capital, goods, troops, colonies etc. Here are some broad suggestions.

1) Start preparing for the Crimean War. The Russians will be probably have a go at you after a couple of years and don't expect any help from your allies, not even at sea. I played the war in 1.02 and I had to face a Russian army in the Balkans and one in the Caucasus, plus a landing in Izmit. The Russians suffered defeat after defeat in the fortress of Kars, fact which forced the Russians to accept a white peace after a year - year and a half, but 1.03 changed the siege dynamics in favour of the attacker and I am not so sure how practical this strategy is.

2) Be prepared for constant rebellions. Since the Ottoman territories in Asia are regarded as colonial, there are frequent insurrections in Western and Eastern Anatolia, Iraq and Libya. You have a couple of "good" (strategic value of 3) starting 2 star generals, so I used to post them at Damascus, Baghdad and Kars in charge of a cavalry division. Be prepared for a lot of merry-go-round in the desert - in the plus side, your generals and troops gain a lot of experience that way, and god knows, you really need a second 3 star general for the Crimean War. Placing garrisons at Crete, Cyprus and the Dodecanese should also be helpful, since landing an army to chase the revels out after they have control is a pain. Once your economy grows enough to provide for your population's needs, these rebellions should die out.

3) Your economy starts undeveloped, but the empire is full of untapped resources. In the beginning focus on maximising your capital income - cereals, fisheries, wine/fruits and tobacco are good builds and will help you with fulfilling the consumers' demands. When you feel your economic base is secure, start building factories: manufactured goods, luxury goods, textiles and chemicals (to make use of the abundant wool and the less abundant nitrates). You have significant but not endless coal reserves, and when you acquire access to railroads, you should plan ahead. Concentrate your factories in a few provinces with a large population base (Constantinople, Smyrna, Thessaloniki), so that you will gain maximum output with as few railroads as possible. By the mid-60s you will be totally self-sufficient.

4) The Ottomans have a sizable zone of influence and I haven't seen much competition from other powers, start by expanding your colonial control in Libya and Kuwait and you should be fine. Yemen is the exception, since you start at war with the locals and the war there is a logistical nightmare. Try building up a depot in Sanaa and bring a general with a cavalry brigade, and they won't be able to kick you out - winning is much more difficult. Note that despite extensive colonial holdings, my prestige gain is very small (three points by the mid-60s), I'm not sure how this is calculated.

5) In 1.02 the Ottomans have no decisions, limited colonial options, no explorers and don't gain new objectives (at least not before 1865). It's not really been restrictive so far, since, as I mentioned, the empire doesn't start with much. Somebody mentioned in the forum that the 1870s event chain (covering the Russo-ottoman war of 1877-8 and the congress of Berlin) is broken - but I haven't played that far and can't verify it myself. If anybody knows what the situation is in 1.03, I'd like to know too.

 

[loki100]

the only thing I can add is what I have seen going on. Russia attacked in 1851, seemed to do a lot of damage and then opted out for the gain of Dobrudja. Even just with an eye on the Balkans, there have been a lot of revolts but mostly short lived (I think every now and then a province has actually rebelled) also in modern day Libya (I know this as the rebels keep on burning my missionaries ... not that that really worries me too much).

Given the basic PoN mechanics, I really fancy a GC with the Ottomans (or Russia, or A-H), as one of the states on the wrong end of the nationalism tide in the period and with an economy sufficiently weak to make managing the domestic dissent quite a challenge.

 

[unmerged(306509)]

HI,

I'm playing with the 1.03 version, I am writting an AAR in spanish, you can see in this link until the end of 1853 :
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?25179-AAR-Otomanos

I'm completly agree with Fadi_Efendi, the war with the Russians is inevitable and the rebellions are constantly in Lybia, Dodecanese, Creta, Cyprus, Greece, Albania and Yemen.
I use a merchant fleet in Indian Box for the supply to Yemen and Persian Gulf, added to the depots in Baghdad, Kuwait, Medina, Sanaa. Logistic is a problem and cohesion lack a nightmare in Lybia and overall in Yemen.
5 Officers per turn can be not enough to hold all the reserves.
The colonization of Qatar/Bahrein and Kuwait seems easy to do, I got protectorates in 2 and 3 years.
It is easy to get money with the Turks, they have many products and their potential is huge. Trade outpost are a very good option, if you buy one in Kuwait or Qatar you have gems fast each turn, or the same with coffee in Sanaa or Aden. At the other side, many options are unable : train, exploration, military academy.

 

[Van Diemen]

Is it me or why can't the ottomans construct any factories other than chemical, textile and shipyards in 1.03? I thought it was capable to build steel mills and other factories than just these in 1.02. Do other people also notice this or is this supposed to be WAD?

 

[Van Diemen]

Ok, I found why. The Ottomans had not yet harnessed the effects of the Industrial Revolution technology. Now they can build all the different factory types.

 

[Sir Garnet]

This is all good clarifying input that will help future Ottomans.

 

[Jaol]

How are you guys dealing with Yemen? It's been a total nightmare for me. Saana is the graveyard of the Empire (or at least the Empire's finances).

It's 1861 in my game. The Russian war is over and most of the other revolts have petered out. But Yemen is still a complete mess. I have 4 divisions down there (2 cav, 2 inf), with 2 generals, and a depot+fleet to supply them. But they just can't stamp out the revolt. Every time I beat the current batch of rebels, a new revolt starts. What am I doing wrong?

 

[unmerged(248351)]

In my game, I have the exact same troops and am facing the exact same results. Though I gradually grind the Yemeni troops to dust, new ones continuously spawn in revolts. I tried building forts and depots throughout the region, but could not protect them in case of a rebellion. I think that a practical attitude would be to build up a depot in Sana'a and hold the Taiz/Aden-Hadramaut line, until you can build up colonial penetration, then make excursions to the other provinces with brigade sized troops (to build up military control and defend the cards you play, not to attack the Yemenis) and hope for the best.

It's not a coincidence that Yemen was indeed the graveyard of the Ottoman Empire, where difficult pashas and military commanders ended up during the 19th century and intermittent warfare continued right until the empire's end.

PS: Herzog, your aar looks amazing! Best of luck!

 

[Sir Garnet]

It's not a coincidence that Yemen was indeed the graveyard of the Ottoman Empire, where difficult pashas and military commanders ended up during the 19th century and intermittent warfare continued right until the empire's end.

I am glad to hear that Yemen is represented well - the Afghanistan of the Arabian peninsula, but not as friendly to invaders.

 

[Van Diemen]

I am glad to hear that Yemen is represented well - the Afghanistan of the Arabian peninsula, but not as friendly to invaders.

Yes, Yemen is more of an annoyance than a prize in my game as well. To be honest, I abandoned Yemen as it serves me no purpose to spend a lot of income, officers and recruits for a bunch of sand and coffee. The coffee can also be harvested in other areas, like Ethiopia.

BTW do you all lack decisions in your Ottoman game? Like improving road networks or other decisions improving province development rating?

 

[joetabler]

Yes, Yemen is more of an annoyance than a prize in my game as well. To be honest, I abandoned Yemen as it serves me no purpose to spend a lot of income, officers and recruits for a bunch of sand and coffee. The coffee can also be harvested in other areas, like Ethiopia.

BTW do you all lack decisions in your Ottoman game? Like improving road networks or other decisions improving province development rating?

I'm playing the Otto's at the moment in the Multiplayer....(you or other could take it over...... if you would care to) and there are road and sewer improvements which I ran this last turn. (I'm care-taking ....my regular country is China.)

There are other Nations that are available in the Multiplayer game as well........ takes a few minutes a day to play and a few more to read the posts....Brits and Greeks are fighting Prussia at the moment. ! 1866 July.

 

[unmerged(430100)]

Yes, Yemen is more of an annoyance than a prize in my game as well. To be honest, I abandoned Yemen as it serves me no purpose to spend a lot of income, officers and recruits for a bunch of sand and coffee. The coffee can also be harvested in other areas, like Ethiopia.

BTW do you all lack decisions in your Ottoman game? Like improving road networks or other decisions improving province development rating?

These are tied to technologies you have not yet discovered.

 

[Van Diemen]

These are tied to technologies you have not yet discovered.

Ok, that is very good to know. I was a bit afraid that these decisions had just been not implemented for the Ottomans (as this faction was deemed unpolished as implemented only in the 1.01h patch), but if it is technology dependent then I can fully accept their current unavailability.

 

[Jaol]

Is there any way to get fortress artillery on the border with Russia? I can't build it there because the population isn't loyal to me, and I can move it by sea (like I did with fortress infantry) because it's a fixed unit.

I'm playing the Otto's at the moment in the Multiplayer....(you or other could take it over...... if you would care to) and there are road and sewer improvements which I ran this last turn. (I'm care-taking ....my regular country is China.)

There are other Nations that are available in the Multiplayer game as well........ takes a few minutes a day to play and a few more to read the posts....Brits and Greeks are fighting Prussia at the moment. ! 1866 July.

Sure, I'd take over the Sick Man of Europe or someone else. PM me.

 

[Van Diemen]

Solving the problem with lack of officers

The Ottomans seem to have a decent manpower pool, however the officer gain is fairly low, which kind of prevents the recruitment of enough elements to fill in the losses of the army I have suffered due to an attack by Austria in 1855. I can recall that other nations could construct military academies at some point, however the Ottomans do not seem to be able to construct such a military structure. Do these ever get activated at some point or are the Ottomans just screwed because of a fixed low officers eventhough I have the money and manpower to expand and restore the army?

 

[Comrade Chaos]

I don't know how I did it with Persia, but I got my officer count to surpass my conscript count. Does professional army do that?

 

[Van Diemen]

I don't know how I did it with Persia, but I got my officer count to surpass my conscript count. Does professional army do that?

These technologies are still so unclear to me in what they do and what to expect from them. Maybe one of the techs activates military academy or increases officer recruitment. I would like if anyone could tell me a bit more about how to increase officer recruitment levels as the Ottoman Empire.

 

[Comrade Chaos]

These technologies are still so unclear to me in what they do and what to expect from them. Maybe one of the techs activates military academy or increases officer recruitment. I would like if anyone could tell me a bit more about how to increase officer recruitment levels as the Ottoman Empire.

I didn't mean the tech. I meant the government screen that shows your country's attributes.

 

[Van Diemen]

I didn't mean the tech. I meant the government screen that shows your country's attributes.

Oh sorry I misunderstood. Well, indeed professional army does allow more efficient officer recruitment. However, I cannot change a country attribute.