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I_AM_King_Midas

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Hey everyone,
I am a big fan of theory crafting and trying to find out what is the "best" way to do things. Theory crafting with other players is something that I do in most games I play. Recently I have been trying out the Ottomans and they are a lot of fun. I have been doing pretty good as them but I am always wanting to find out how to do even better.

What strategies do you like to employ the most? How far do you expand north, south, east and west? What ideas do you prefer to get with the ottomans? Any allies you make? situations you try to avoid? I would love to hear your thoughts and theories.

King Midas
 

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I am playing through a game as them right now.

My idea sets have been (will be) :
Administrative
Defensive
Religious
Offensive
Innovative
(Quality)
(Economic)
(Quantity)

My diplo tech is 8-9 levels behind. I probably won't raise it any further. I am culture converting everything, which is quite a lot.

I own all of Italy, Savoy, Switzerland, most of Austria, and all of Hungary to the west. All of Egypt, Persia, and (soon) the Middle East. Not really going for WC, just aiming to unify Islam.

I allied with nobody at the start and not for quite a while. France, for half a century or so while I was conquering Austria-Hungary, until France became threatened and broke it off. Allied with nobody again now.
Admin to 3rd idea + Otto tradition + missions generating claims means you can blitz the Mamluks endlessly without costing much of anything for admin points. Let diplo tech fall behind and you can easily westernize. I have sold no provinces to vassals, only returned some to Persia and Savoy.
 

Orkonkel

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Ottomans are really, really overpowered. I started my game before the expansion came (so I'd played half of it trying to keep people from piling on me in huge coalitions) and things must be so much easier right now. My problem is I get bored when things get too easy so after completing the 'Sultan of Rum' achievement I started a bunch of wars that were hard to win, like spending 30 years trying to make Austria revoke HRE decisions.

Generally, my idea sets are:
Diplomatic -> Aristocratic -> Religious, Administrative, or Innovative -> whatever else is needed.

Basically, the only thing right now slowing you down from expanding is monarch points, specifically administrative and diplomatic. Anyway, rather than spending points coring all the stuff yourself, check if there's any provinces in enemy territory that belongs to a 'dead' nation. For example, during the conquer levant mission (killing mamluks), you could just take all of Syria's provinces in the peace treaty, but rather than coring them just release Syria as a vassal. This way, you'll not be limited as much by overextension or having enough administrative points to make cores in zones. It's the same when fighting in Europe: take a few zones belonging to Ukraine, release Ukraine as your vassal, and all of a sudden there's another 6-7 zones you can get back in wars by using the 'Return core' option when signing treaties. This will also skyrocket your vassal's opinion of you, meaning you'll often not have to send diplomats to increase their relations so much. I do the same with Persia, Afghanistan, lots of the India nations, Hungary if Austria inherits them, Balkans, etc.

My second tip is that if someone is too big to vassalise, you could just wait the five years of peace without coring, then doing a vassalise in the next war and sell them the uncored provinces back. As such: you want the last of the mamluk lands without paying anything to core them, in your first war, you end up at 92% overextension but since you checked the war score, you know that the remaining provinces can be vassalised in the next war. Since you're ottoman, you can save up monarch points or use them for tech/vassalising other countries while you wait for the peace to expire, then simply vassalise the Mamluks and sell them the provinces you took in the last war (this actually saves you time if you're starting to get big, when coring takes more than 5 years to complete you'll spend less time overextended if you use this tactic).

A few things:
1. Vassalise a small western tech nation at your border. The Knights seem like an ideal choice (I actually didn't think of this when I played the Ottomans), but Venice could do in a pinch. The 5% tech reduction from 'Western Arms Trade' plus the tech bonus from lack of Piety means you're spending less monarch points at tech and more at simply growing.
2. I went north fairly quickly to stop Russia from becoming a problem late game. They're a real pain in the ass if you let them mass up 80,000+ in army size. Of course, they might not be a problem at all anymore since coalitions are effectively extinct with this expansion.
3. Westernising is so much easier than it used to be. Increase your diplomatic tech to level 6 for the Embassy (if you need the extra diplomat), then spend all your diplomatic power in wars or changing culture. If you drop after a level or two in administrative as well, you'll be able to westernize all that more quickly. And since you get the Piety bonus to tech even after westernizing, you'll have a really strong army while spending less points than everyone else for tech.
4. The 'Unify Islam' decision has some nice bonuses, but it's such a huge disappointment to do it. I saw it in the list of decisions and figured there would be some epic note or cool text about uniting the Prophet's people and all, but you just clicked the decision and nothing even happened. Geesh, for something as epic as an united islamic khalifate, you figured there would at least be some cool flavour text popping up to boost your ego.
5. For the early game, I tend to use up my manpower reserves fairly quickly. I built a lot of military buildings early on before expanding to such a size that I never ran out of manpower again.
6. Very few people nations can actually stop the Ottomans. The only limit to your expansion is how effectively you manage your monarch points.
7. Screw Crimea. I can't vassalise them. I never inherit them. I don't want to spend lots of time overextended to core their land when I could be making advances into europe or towards india instead. I hate Crimea.
8. After you have the Religious idea, go vassalise a few small countries in central Europe (allies to Austria or whatever in wars). After you annex them, you'll be able to use the holy war Causi Belli to eat up the Holy Roman Empire from the inside, without anything to stop you (with holy war, they'll become the war leader when you declare, no matter how big their allies are in the war). It'll take time and take up a lot of diplomatic relations, so consider getting either the Diplomatic or Expansion ideas (or both).
9. Managing diplomatic relations is also important when growing quickly. The Diplomatic idea allows you to break royal marriages without suffering stability loss, which can be great. Also, remember to check whenever there's nations without legitimate heirs. If their ruler is old, you might want to consider a royal marriage to claim the throne. If you're lucky and they die before they get an heir, you can force them into a personal union.

I guess a lot of this really isn't specific to the Ottomans but just really nice when growing no matter which country you pick. I basically did the same thing with Teutonic order and you get really huge fast. Just make sure you win the wars. Even getting one zone belonging to a nation that doesn't exist lets you return core to them in the next war and when you finally annex them, you'll be getting lots of cored land.

EDIT:
Forge claims on Neaples early. The Italian lands are amazing and you can use them as a base for further expansion into Europe.
 

I_AM_King_Midas

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I am playing through a game as them right now.

My idea sets have been (will be) :
Administrative
Defensive
Religious
Offensive
Innovative
(Quality)
(Economic)
(Quantity)

My diplo tech is 8-9 levels behind. I probably won't raise it any further. I am culture converting everything, which is quite a lot.

I own all of Italy, Savoy, Switzerland, most of Austria, and all of Hungary to the west. All of Egypt, Persia, and (soon) the Middle East. Not really going for WC, just aiming to unify Islam.

I allied with nobody at the start and not for quite a while. France, for half a century or so while I was conquering Austria-Hungary, until France became threatened and broke it off. Allied with nobody again now.
Admin to 3rd idea + Otto tradition + missions generating claims means you can blitz the Mamluks endlessly without costing much of anything for admin points. Let diplo tech fall behind and you can easily westernize. I have sold no provinces to vassals, only returned some to Persia and Savoy.
Why are you culture converting everything?

Midas
 

Hakairyu

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Take the mission against Byzantium, finish Albania as fast as possible and then DOW Byzantium, send 7 regiments to each one of the 4 provinces. Take all the byzantine stuff, Athens will become a vassal.

Change capital to Constantinople via decision, then change back to Edirne burning 200 admin points. Do take the Devshirme System when you can.

Attack Venice (and Cyprus if necessary) to take enough greek provinces to culture shift to greek, concede to Orthodox rebels to become Orthodox. RM Athens and try to integrate them rapidly if there aren't enough greeks to go around. Then tag change to Byzantium via decision, you might wanna wait until you have the mission to conquer the Levant from the Mamluks though(good time to take your cores back as now they'll expire much faster). Then dow the Mamluks (you may consider resting for manpower if you need to every once in a while, don't sweat it). You want to take Sinai and Negev in this war. This turns all the mamluk land in Asia into colonies, meaning you can pick up any Asian territories they have for ridiculously low warscore(and they'll be weaker). Since the Europe/Asia border is between what is modern Turkey and what is modern Syria/Iraq, I personally would suggest letting those be colonies to you as well until you cored them (therefore not taking your Turkish cores), because that will give you I think 212% OE iirc of the top of my head so if you have reconquered Anatolia, just release Syria and Iraq. Reconquering Anatolia also means you can restore the theme system, putting you back to Constantinople which now has over 20 base tax. You have the Ottoman ideas which give you triple manpower in religious wars (and there are like 4 orthodox states, mind you) and both the theme system and the devshirme system, which essentially means you probably have more manpower than there were people living in the world at this point in history.

From here it gets confusing for me because I don't play 1.4 and so can't say exactly what is the best course of action. Despite coring cost and time being a huge deal now, I would suggest expansion first to vassalize Qara Qoyunlu and the Timurids as soon as you can and then going up to block Russia off from Siberian expansion. I think the Ottoman tech group can vassalize hordes instead of establishing protectorates, so this is a viable strategy that is better off done before Persia rebels as Persia is in the muslim tech group and thus you don't get overseas expansion CB (also, admin on first idea group is never a good idea). You might wanna keep on friendly terms with the Timurids just so you can stop those rebels yourself if it becomes a necessity, because Persia blocking the way is easy to kill but a time waster. On the southern front is Africa, useful to expand to for trade and because your direct land border means those provinces are not going to be colonies. Might as well have some place to use those colonists. You basically have a monopoly on Asia and Africa.

The HRE is quite useful for the bonuses it provides (even less cost for coring and free vassals), and you might end up needing to reduce the number of Turkish provinces you have to culture shift anyway(highly doubtable), so you can release Aydın and the other Turkish minor and sell as much of Anatolia as you can at some random interval, then dow Urbino and get in. Do note that moving capital back to Constantinople won't cost anything as either the Theme System decision or the Form Byzantium decision automatically should do it. However, I would say that 1. This is pointlessly weakening oneself for a while and 2. You are Rome AND the Ottomans. You don't do diplomacy, you conquer. So just keep expanding into Europe until you can vassalize the electors. It's a good idea to get a truce with the Emperor so that you can dow electors freely, and you might just suck up the stab hit if necessary.

Otherwise in Europe, I tend to go for Venice as a trade node because I don't colonize the new world as the Ottomans (old world is best world) and it's an end node, but now that Sevilla is an end node and the Western trade node means "you don't need to colonize, you just put your navy in the Atlantic and rake all the money in", it might be worth going for it. Huge empires have huge trade potential, so going for trade and naval ideas (especially for thassalocracy) seems to me to be worth it. The only problem with a capital in sevilla is that you'll need a land connection through Hungary, Austria, Venice, Italy and France to keep everything from turning into colonies, though that shouldn't be a problem. Now that Sevilla is an end node, Antwerpen is nowhere nearly as precious as far as I can deduce. So as for Europe, my suggestion is to make the mediterannean your private pond. You do need Bordeaux for Thassalocracy though, so you might wanna expand further into France, preferably while there is a good number of French vassals to go around too. This also restores Rome to its largest borders if you've been taking land in Africa as well, pretty much, so that's pretty neat.

Do note that cores take twice as long to expire if a country doesn't exist; so if a core that looked like it would expire in 1644, that will revert to 1544 when you release the country as a vassal and thus will expire at the end of the month if you are in your second century of the game. Here's a workaround:
1. Acquire at least one core of every country you wish to release as a vassal, as you normally would.
2. Wait out the truce, coring the provinces if overextension can burden you.
3. Release all those vassals at the first week of a month, then declare war on the holder of their cores (in this case France) immediately. Now that they are at war with the holder of their cores, that core timer will reset from 1444 to the current date.

As for allies, you don't really need them, but France would help with Spain and Portugal quite well, so you might wanna keep them around until you take their slice of the mediterannean. Russia has already been nerfed and if you've cut them off, they'll probably never grow to be a substantial power. Although, they might be PU material if you wish to bother with it, but PUs are too uncertain. You will probably be fighting Britain and the Iberians for trade and colonies, so that's all you've got.

As for ideas(those in parentheses are potential picks);

Admin:
(Innovative)
Religious
Administrative

Diplo:
(Trade)
(Naval)
Expansion

Military:
Defensive
(Offensive)
(Quality)
 
Last edited:

Xara

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Why are you culture converting everything?

Midas

Because I occupy a gargantuan mass of land. Any time you have rebels of ANY sort, a province that doesn't match your culture can spawn "Jackals! Vultures!" nationalists. Converting them removes that and removes the revolt, tax, and manpower penalties. That means I need less rebel-poppers hanging around the various corners of my continents-spanning empire and I can use more for the actual armies.

Also, I'm not using any diplo idea sets and diplo tech itself is useless at this point. Early-on conquests involving ships I won by utterly swarming them with galleys. Captured ships boosted the naval force until I had 150+ ships, about 30 of which I built myself. There is nothing I need them for now except occasionally ferrying a troop set to something like Bahrain. I don't need the boost to trade power from light ships given that I am occupying 100% of the various nodes. I don't even need the income from trade at all.
 

I_AM_King_Midas

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It seems like several of you are promoting expansion as an early idea choice. Why is that when there is no place for your colonist to go early on? Are you trying to convert to Orthodoxy just for the ability to enter the HRE? I personally think the Islamic piety system provides more powerful bonuses than patriarchal authority.
 

grisamentum

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It seems like several of you are promoting expansion as an early idea choice. Why is that when there is no place for your colonist to go early on? Are you trying to convert to Orthodoxy just for the ability to enter the HRE? I personally think the Islamic piety system provides more powerful bonuses than patriarchal authority.

You have to add Imperial Integrity (or alternatively Emperor bonuses) to Orthodox bonuses. Orthodox+HRE is easily better than Islam, especially Orthodox+Emperor.
 

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It seems like several of you are promoting expansion as an early idea choice. Why is that when there is no place for your colonist to go early on? Are you trying to convert to Orthodoxy just for the ability to enter the HRE? I personally think the Islamic piety system provides more powerful bonuses than patriarchal authority.

It's not about the colonist, my King, it's about being able to DOW anything to the east. The diplomat, reputation, and merchant (who you can slot just about anywhere with how much you'll conquer) all come in handy. If you want to go that route.

However, with the colonist, you can easily beat the Europeans to the Indian and Asian markets by colonizing once you've carved a pass through the middle east.
 

Hakairyu

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It seems I didn't talk about westernization. It's not even slightly necessary to be caught up on tech as the Ottomans, but you will eventually need it to have units that can fight those of the western group. Well, as the Ottomans, you can keep up militarily up until the year 1700. Therefore you should try to annex all your Chinese, Nomadic (if you can have nomads as vassals and not protectorates as the Ottomans) and Indian vassals so that they don't become protectorates. That is if westernization even changes already-vassals into protectorates.
 

hauptman

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My thoughts on the WildTurks. As I too am currently playing as this retardedly OverPowered almost boring nation.




Normally I am HRE emporer in my games, so some of it's advantages I took for granted... Not having them this time really was a punch in the gut.

My large standing army is almost entirely rebel patrol. My combat armies (currently 4 total, 3 in europe, 1 in india) have been lead by a single general... Sure I can hire a temporary one or two during really nasty wars, but one general for 3 armies makes quantity over quality really rough. All those 20k stacks are just there to bash rebels automatically. And lord knows I need them. Religious unity is poop. I've got no accepted cultures (other than anatolia and egypt) and even without any OE rebels constantly pop.

OE. Until recently I was pretty much always at or near 100 OE permanantly. I've slowed down as I've run out of stuff to conquer.

I NEED MORE MERCHANTS! So much of my empires trade is wasted.

Being big. Although it looks impressive... It's a real pita. And just forget buildings. Armies everywhere, fleets everywhere, rebels everywhere... and I'm not even that rich. Money has never really been a problem, but I've had wealthier (and smaller) nations before.

The tech "dis"-advantage. Is it normal for every Turkish king to be 5-6-6? Because all mine have. I am the tech leader and couldnt westernise if I wanted to.

My primary European ally (france) is the only thing holding me back from making the Medeteranian into a lake... Problem is... my 150k european combatants dont stand a chance against his 130k in france alone. Prussia isnt growing fast enough (my other ally) to actually be helpful. Now I was debating just making a mercenary defence in depth line to absorb some of his manpower before my real troops join the fight... But I am his only ally, so I cannot fabricate a 'free' war that wont piss him off. I wanted to snag his coastal provinces then resign the alliance like nothing happened. But until someone else likes him, I've got no way to dow without taking huge relations hits. Guess I'll sit on it a while longer.

Crimea is never going to westernize and break this protectorate crap are they?
 

grommile

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The tech "dis"-advantage. Is it normal for every Turkish king to be 5-6-6?
Not when they're under human control (and thus aren't Lucky). In my current game, Mehmet Fatih's successor ended up being 3-1-1.

Because all mine have. I am the tech leader and couldnt westernise if I wanted to.
Dude. Why did you sink all those Diplo points into tech instead of ideas, peace treaties, and culture conversions?

Crimea is never going to westernize and break this protectorate crap are they?
The pre-programmed idea choices of the AI Hordes preclude them ever Reforming their Government (the idea group required doesn't get picked until Admin 26), which precludes them Westernizing.
 

MiniaAr

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My thoughts on the WildTurks. As I too am currently playing as this retardedly OverPowered almost boring nation.




Normally I am HRE emporer in my games, so some of it's advantages I took for granted... Not having them this time really was a punch in the gut.

My large standing army is almost entirely rebel patrol. My combat armies (currently 4 total, 3 in europe, 1 in india) have been lead by a single general... Sure I can hire a temporary one or two during really nasty wars, but one general for 3 armies makes quantity over quality really rough. All those 20k stacks are just there to bash rebels automatically. And lord knows I need them. Religious unity is poop. I've got no accepted cultures (other than anatolia and egypt) and even without any OE rebels constantly pop.

OE. Until recently I was pretty much always at or near 100 OE permanantly. I've slowed down as I've run out of stuff to conquer.

I NEED MORE MERCHANTS! So much of my empires trade is wasted.

Being big. Although it looks impressive... It's a real pita. And just forget buildings. Armies everywhere, fleets everywhere, rebels everywhere... and I'm not even that rich. Money has never really been a problem, but I've had wealthier (and smaller) nations before.

The tech "dis"-advantage. Is it normal for every Turkish king to be 5-6-6? Because all mine have. I am the tech leader and couldnt westernise if I wanted to.

My primary European ally (france) is the only thing holding me back from making the Medeteranian into a lake... Problem is... my 150k european combatants dont stand a chance against his 130k in france alone. Prussia isnt growing fast enough (my other ally) to actually be helpful. Now I was debating just making a mercenary defence in depth line to absorb some of his manpower before my real troops join the fight... But I am his only ally, so I cannot fabricate a 'free' war that wont piss him off. I wanted to snag his coastal provinces then resign the alliance like nothing happened. But until someone else likes him, I've got no way to dow without taking huge relations hits. Guess I'll sit on it a while longer.

Crimea is never going to westernize and break this protectorate crap are they?
Nice Empire. I agree with you, Trade ideas are a must with the Ottomans, otherwise you'll feel you are loosing too much everywhere. It will also make you rich. ;)
Crimea not westernizing is a drag :(
 

hauptman

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I could spend 10,000 diponies culture shifting and not even notice a difference. Why bother. I did however culture shift Navara to make my March city, as that is the only border I know wont move.

Trade is my most backward tech atm. It's at 20 instead of 21!~ I've been building trade depots in every province I can actually collect trade from. With diplo Ideas + rivalry, it costs me so little for peace deals. 18 per province, about the same as core costs!~ And I try not to take to much OE all at once.

Everything west of ragusa Is just plain lost tradewise. I was debating Naval as my next idea set to unlock Thassalocracy.
 

grommile

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I could spend 10,000 diponies culture shifting and not even notice a difference.
Primary-culture provinces don't get the "Jackals! Vultures!" event. In a large empire, that's a pretty noticeable benefit.