Ottoman Starting Stratagy

[El Jojo]

Well it seems everyone has its own experience with the Ottos...

As to the OP I'm wondering, if, maybe, you're not waging your wars in a good way. In fact I tried a new otto game because of this thread and yes I had to deal with Castille, Portugal, Italian countries, Austria, Bohemia and Poland (plus the hordes of course) and I just reached 1460. But my war exhaustion never climbed too high and I never exhausted my manpower, so maybe you have to optimize your defensive tactics.
Let attrition eat a bit of their army, counter-attack with local superior forces, white peace with some members of the alliance, and only then focus on invading your main opponent etc. maybe you already know all that, but still it allows you to defend and stall until they're bored.
Be aware of wars and diplomacy, attack your opponents when they won't be able to call their allies.
Maybe you should start an AAR and get advice on a more detailed basis.

In the game I just started, I paid tribute to the tims, just to get peace of mind while focusing everywhere else. I force PU the Mameluks, brutally conquered southern Greece (that's when Castille etc. jumped in), in 1410 Castille oesn't have that much transports so they won't be able to land that many troops.
When I saw Austria attacking Hungary, I also attacked Hungary and I took much more than they took since the infamy cost is in my favor, then I attacked Austria. Once again early game they don't have that much troops even when they're emperor. They had 65k, I had 40K. I let them siege, they even took two provinces, then I counter-attacked. I was bordering Wien at the end of this war. And then I attacked them again 5 years later. You know Austria is going to be your nightmare if they become a powerful emperor, don't let them.
So yes I paid tribute to Tims and conceded defeat against Golden horde, but now I'm bordering Tirol, Austria is not a threat for many years, I'm blocking the way to Golden Horde so Bohemia won't colonize Russia till Siberia. Paying the tims, completely worth it.
It's better to neutralize opponents on the rise (Austria, Bohemia) than foes on decline (Tims). PU with mamluks means at some point I will inherit a cored territory. The future is bright.

 

[Chronicler]

It really doesn't matter that much which mission you start with except you don't really want to start with the Mameluk one



Asking for big trouble with these. There's no reason to give Tims tribute from the start. They can easily focus in other directions allowing you to get a better peace deal or re-take your lands, particularly if Timur dies early on. You can always wait a bit and offer tribute later if things break completely wrong but that is pretty unlikely. Also, getting yourself into multiple wars (particularly if one is somewhat major-Mameluks) is asking for half of Europe to DoW you.



Not sure exactly where you're going with this. If you're trying to give a steb-by-step guide on how to beat the Mameluks I suppose it'd be ok. Far better IMO to wait until they inevitably get embroiled with Castille or rebel problems and just march down through the levant assaulting as you go. Higher tech+morale will make it easy enough.



The NI switch recommendation is good, the rest is idiocy IMO. Take the cores on day 1 before Byz or someone else does and use your money for something better. Claiming DoF is throwing away money as the OE because at some point, probably more than once, in the first 50 years you are going to be better off buying off some alliance that DoWed with a quick concede defeat or 25 ducat payout. Sinking a pile into DoF is flushing it down the drain (or enticing yourself into the foolish ai position of trying to keep it at all costs and getting yourself into huge trouble when wars come on too many fronts. You also have better uses for the money (paying for colonies, buying a CoT immediately come to mind).




I'm not going to say you're a liar but I find it extremely hard to believe that you you were at peace long enough to inherit all that within 50 years of game start based on what I've seen playing the OE. Particularly since you added extra wars to get the PUs in the first place. You also don't mention how you would address the other two hordes or managed to keep from losing the inevitable wars with the Euros while your armies were off in southern arabia or northern africa.

Hum hum, I'm not even going to bother answer those above since I simply just don't agree with you...and why buy a cot when one can easily inherit the mamluk one?

And the hordes I never got to war with because I just stayed at peace with timurids, and golden horde I tributed as well when they showed up which was early (not overly expensive)

The only war I had with the west was also early game and France was dof (no fleet lawl). I took southern Greece and got cores there. I guess after that I was to strong for any christian nation

And you can inherit PUs while at war if the PUs are in the same war with you.

 

[Kyoumen]

I'm not going to say you're a liar but I find it extremely hard to believe that you you were at peace long enough to inherit all that within 50 years of game start based on what I've seen playing the OE. Particularly since you added extra wars to get the PUs in the first place. You also don't mention how you would address the other two hordes or managed to keep from losing the inevitable wars with the Euros while your armies were off in southern arabia or northern africa.

If you're not at war with hordes, you're much less likely to get random European war declarations. That's one of the many good reasons it's not worth fighting them if your focus in an Ottoman game isn't "reaching Siberia" (though that is a very viable, if obviously unhistorical, option).

I too usually force/claim PUs on the Arabian and North African nations as soon as possible; 1450 is indeed either lucky or the result of reloading, but a hundred years or so to inherit 4-6 nations is very doable.

 

[Chronicler]

If you're not at war with hordes, you're much less likely to get random European war declarations. That's one of the many good reasons it's not worth fighting them if your focus in an Ottoman game isn't "reaching Siberia" (though that is a very viable, if obviously unhistorical, option).

I too usually force/claim PUs on the Arabian and North African nations as soon as possible; 1450 is indeed either lucky or the result of reloading, but a hundred years or so to inherit 4-6 nations is very doable.

Well, when my first monarch died I already had PUs with Mamluks, Algiers, Morocco, Oman and Hedjaz. I inherited all but Morocco, I conquered Tripoli (wrong culture), so then I pretty much had the entire north and Oman.
And this was like very early in the game, then I PUed Iraq and Yemen as well (I didn't continue this game so they were never inherited). I also conquered Ethiophia, Swahili and Mutapa+made some new colonies.

EDIT: Btw, something I have always wondered about is the Ottoman naval forcelimit, provinces over the strait doesn't add to it? Because controlling all that coast and no nations in the way, I should have had sky high naval forcelimit?

 

[Elector]

If you can inherit the Mamelukes, awesome- but I wouldn't use my armies to force a PU (I like them as my Timur-buffer)... just a matter of style, I guess-- oh, and I LOVE staying at war with almost completely occupied Hordes because then I don't have to waste my diplomats declaring war on Euros; and, as long as you don't cross your infamy limit, they always use Holy War, which is reflexive- you can use it back on them; and, since they are attacking me, the giant France/Burgundy DoF very rarely gets involved. Yes, colonizing the Hordes to Siberia is ahistorical, but it's a great way to pick up territory (Gold, Iron, or Fur-rich provinces) w/o getting infamy....

EDIT: The colonists granted for bordering a Horde changes in 5.2-- Trying to colonize the GH with this patch may not be such a good idea....

 

[Kyoumen]

Yes, colonizing the Hordes to Siberia is ahistorical, but it's a great way to pick up territory (Gold, Iron, or Fur-rich provinces) w/o getting infamy....

Oh yes, it's viable, not even that difficult, and will allow you to be the most powerful country in the game long before you take a single swing at Western Europe. Problem is, it takes well over a century of concentrating on it and the every-five-years-declarations means it's bothersome to ever leave it be, so it really becomes THE focus of the game. I had fun doing it once, but not much interest in doing it again because I find securing Egypt and North Africa and then countering whatever European blobs there are to be more interesting (and obviously more historical) for an Ottomans game.

But mechanically, there's very little doubt that's the best route for an Ottomans player; even with the new changes, Colonial Ventures + Land of Opportunity will do fine. By the time you have a land connection to Crimea you should have sufficient income to get as many colonies growing at once as you can reach. The Golden Horde, like every horde, is only dangerous until they lose once and then they're helpless, so there's not even any significant risk.

 

[Elector]

I hardly ever make peace with the Horde after the first couple of wars- so I'm not getting DoW'd every 5 years by them-- just most of Europe