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tapewormlondon

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So I am going to play my first game as a non Latin tech group and have chosen the easy route and gone Ottomans.

Whats a good starting strat? Do I take out the Byzies? I have a mission to conquer Greece, but they are all guaranteed by Venice - can I win a war with against Venice at game start?

I believe for westernisation I have to centralise loads, so that has been my opening slider move. Who do I need to watch out for and give military access to?
 
Jul 15, 2007
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Well it depends... i see you play eu3 complete, which mean you don't have DW. Well this mean, that you should bring down timurids, take eresrum, and then, just do your missions. I think Timur should die soon, and with him dead, timurids will surely split into all possible revolt countries - baluchistan, ak-koyunlu. persia, chiva and khorosan.
 

unmerged(237902)

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You can annex Karaman, Candar, Dulkadir and Ramazan with no infamy as you have cores on them. If you need to focus on Timur, blitz their armies with your big starting stack and let Bosnia & Serbia take their provinces for you.

Alliance with the Mamluks is a good idea for early game, as they're a great help in pushing back the Timurids.

Your big worry is if (when) the Golden Horde takes Bessarabia, as they are practically unstoppable early game, especially if they roll up Lithuania in the first war. If you get pincered between the Horde and Timurids, it's game over.

You can easily take Venice's provinces, they just don't have the land power. You can go through Hungary to take Treviso also, but they'll block you from Venice. It's hard to get to Crete as they tend to have an enormous navy, but once you've splattered their armies, you can incite nationalists if you need to.

I always get frustrated by Ottomans games, though, as they always end up totally focussed on Golden Horde, which really isn't how they should play. By the time you have pushed the Horde back far enough, you're either in for 40 years of horde colonisation or Europe will just plough through the Balkans because you haven't been able to focus on taking Mamluks. The horde mechanic really ruins a lot of the game.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't realise you don't have DW... in which case disregard most of this!
 

sprites

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for the byzzies , I'd suggest you wait or cycle missions until you get it so you get a core on Thrace
A good opening move is to DoW 3 turkish minors before unpausing , so they can't ally eachother and cost you infamy.
Concede defeat to Timurids ASAP , try to not fight them when Timur is still alive.
you can conquer southern Greece , building some ships will help against Venice's and the other italian powers , they will be dragged into the war.(i'd suggest at least 10 galleys , and 1-2 big ships)
 
Jul 15, 2007
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Well... then you still need to beat horde, but you should try scorched earth. Also if you will be lucky, timur will die. Still as rebels won't spawn on their cores, you will need to help them. Anyway you should build two 15k stacks - one on asian side and one in europe, and start doing mission - while beating timurids. Better don't make peace with them - as this will only strenghten them. When they start to break - make colony is eresrum, and when it will become your province - demand them to concede defeat - if they will have less prestige, they will be weaker - but do it only if they will start to break to the rebels. If they don't, then just continue colonizing, province by province, and use mountains to defend agains any stacks they send - aslo don't assault, and if your morale will be low, withdraw to turkey, so they don't destroy your forces. While you fight timurids, also you should do your missions - it might be hard, at the beggining, but otherwise you won't grow in power. Also it is quite possible that you will need to fight golden horde - in their case, use scorched earth, and when they will lose their army, or their armies fight elsewhere - colonize their provinces up to bessarabia - when you got bessarabia and budjak as your provinces - make peace with GH - if you are at peace with timurids and don't have any wars - and release moldavia. You need moldavia as a buffer state, so that you won't just fight them all the time. Also to do the trick you need another vassal, so vassalize wallachia. If you will be lucky - you will no longer border horde, which might bind your hands to expand in other places.
 

gogis

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I played Ottomans many many times, and they actually pretty easy at start.
Basic algorythm
1. Follow early missions, but ignore stupid ones, like subjugations or taking on Naples.
2. You have ABUNDANCE of cores east from Thrace - all this small, stupid states, dow them with fast assault/annex.
3. Neat and essential trick - if couple of small states inter aligned with alliance, and both posses your cores, DOW them separately in same day, so you can then peace out them separetely with zero infamy. Just make sure you annex alliance leader last.
4. Enjoy your eternal struggle vs Timurids and later on Golden Horde.
5. Keep your armies at reasonably maximized limit - it's better to have bigger force and micromanage maintenance, than keeping 100% maintenance and fight endless wars vs catholics.
6. Enjoy defensive holy wars vs christians, where you can take their provinces for 1 infamy each.
 

mathl33t

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I prefer to avoid fighting GH and Timurids for the first century. Pay them off or put a vassal in the way. I invade Italy instead for super rich provinces. You can get to Italy either by becoming an empire and using holy war or letting Naples conquer Epirus and then fighting a holy war vs Naples.
 

gogis

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I prefer to avoid fighting GH and Timurids for the first century. Pay them off or put a vassal in the way. I invade Italy instead for super rich provinces. You can get to Italy either by becoming an empire and using holy war or letting Naples conquer Epirus and then fighting a holy war vs Naples.

It's only sounds good on paper.
You have `your` cores on a border with timurids, not taking that land is kinda out of question, no matter how bad these provinces are. It's a cores after all?
Vassal between you and timurids not works either - you will be put in war anyways, if you have alliance, or Timurids simply would eat them. I bet retaking this land thru colonists is much more expensive.
Also you can't really avoid hordes - both Tims and later - GH will eventully get border with you. Most of the time.
Taking on italy most of the time is not feasible - you need fleet for that and you cant compete with naples/venice etc here.
Anyways i tried many times to concentrate on west rather than east as ottomans - it's significantly harder for reasons mentioned.

edit: paying off to hordes? For me it's kinda of sick to pay tribute to timurids when you actually always stronger than them. Very weird. We talking ottomans here, not Georgia.
 
Last edited:
Jul 15, 2007
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Well that is why i say : Destroy them thru rebels. And as GH cannot be destroyed by rebels, you just need to make vassal - and then make a second vassal that don't border gh. This causes a bug, that can be exploited - you are getting truce with GH automaticaly, without fighting. Thou in 5.2 this bug no more works as they changed it so you will be at war... but then, playing ottomans will be hell, same with playing poland...
 

mathl33t

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Pay tribute to the Timurids on day 1. It's not saying that you're weaker than them; it's saying you have better things to do. It's a ton a manpower and war exhaustion for not a lot of benefit, whereas you have the best CB and really rich land in Europe to take over. To invade Italy, you can put an army on boats, declare war, and land the troops before retreating your fleet, or you can ask for military access from other Italians neighboring your target.
 

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As you see, there's a few different approaches. Paying the timurids at the very beginning still is my favorite choice for an easy game. You're not stronger than them at this point (1399), so it will use manpower and money to fight.
If you pay them you're free to gain your other cores in Greece and Turkey and start looking for opportunities elsewhere. Personnal Union with Mameluks is great.
Invading Italy is also a really good plan. Yes, you need a fleet for that, but after taking your cores and expanding a bit, you should be able to afford one. Naples is a good victim, wait for a moment when they're isolated. They don't have such a big fleet anyways. Once you're in Italy you'll get Holywar Casus Belli on italian minors you're bordering, like Urbino and Papal States... Northern Italy is high tax provinces and lots of universities. Then you're set forwhatever your main plan is.
As in every game watch carefully the alliance situation, Naples allied with Castille while England is Defender of the faith ? Delay the invasion.
Golden Horde is manageable, you just have to hold them in Silistria, Bulgaria as with every invader, let them siege a bit for attrition, then group your forces and kill their armies. Colonizing them to Crimea is nice, going further into Russia is possible but a bit weird for me.
 

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My own Ottoman campaign has been going through some rough times due to tremendous amounts of resources being wasted against the hordes. It really depends on what you want to do with your Empire. Though expansion to the East is not what it use to be for the Ottomans because of the colony feature with hordes.
 
Jul 15, 2007
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Pay tribute to the Timurids on day 1. It's not saying that you're weaker than them; it's saying you have better things to do. It's a ton a manpower and war exhaustion for not a lot of benefit, whereas you have the best CB and really rich land in Europe to take over. To invade Italy, you can put an army on boats, declare war, and land the troops before retreating your fleet, or you can ask for military access from other Italians neighboring your target.

Well, you are not moscow. And timurids are not golden horde. You pay much more tribute than moscow, if you agree, even on day 1st. So if you made timurids fall to the rebels, you will not need to care about them anymore. Problem is allways golden horde, but as I sad - there is way to defeat them. YOU CAN also, try to colonize golden horde up to some provinces, and then release Crimean Khanate, as vassal, and sell them few provinces, and then, let them free, so they will do the rest of colonization for you, but as just releasing moldavia is quicker, and easier, leave that strategy for patch 5.2.
 

gogis

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Pay tribute to the Timurids on day 1. It's not saying that you're weaker than them; it's saying you have better things to do. It's a ton a manpower and war exhaustion for not a lot of benefit, whereas you have the best CB and really rich land in Europe to take over. To invade Italy, you can put an army on boats, declare war, and land the troops before retreating your fleet, or you can ask for military access from other Italians neighboring your target.

It's also 6-6-6 generals for almost zero WE, because you better by a miles.
Sorry, I tried strategy "pay tribute at day one and go to west" and it never went good. Leave it for Muscovy.
Also, I prefer to maintain 20k stack at timurid border, than pay same amount of gold as tribute.
I'll beter have border with both hordes, than with austria. For a century, atleast.
 

gogis

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My own Ottoman campaign has been going through some rough times due to tremendous amounts of resources being wasted against the hordes. It really depends on what you want to do with your Empire. Though expansion to the East is not what it use to be for the Ottomans because of the colony feature with hordes.

Again, you all somehow forgetting, that it's not expansion. it's RECLAIMING YOUR OWN LAND. Yes, full manpower/tax. It's delusional to think it's better to give up cores and not fighting horde.
1. Get your cores
2. Fight consequences

And about "declare war and sally to italy before your fleet retreating" - it's disastrous. Perfect recipe to lock away 20k stack away from your motherland. My latest game with Ottomans - I am major power, ~1650, 200k troops, best technology and I had enormous problems conquering italy because my fleet can't compete with amount of floating stuff around due various cascading alliances.
Yeah, I can stomp Austria/Bohemia whatever with 100k doomstacks storming 3 level forts, but any naval invasion was a russian roulette.
 

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  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
the fact that the ottomans have as their main enemies timurids and GH shows how wrong the horde system is... The both collapsed soon after 1399, while in the game they go on rampage for at least 1 century... Ottomans should be worried about Venice, Hungary and the Mameluks, not the hordes. I think i will start at a very later date my next game