Orthodoxy & Mending the Schism

[Vistariel]

I know I am not the first person to mention that Orthodoxy is a little bland. It would be nice to see more flavor for the Orthodox, which I'm hoping this upcoming expansion will likely address--given the peoples it is emphasizing. The current parameters are:

Stability cost modifier: -10%
Tolerance of the True Faith: +1
Local missionary strength: -1%

With a sliding scale modifier based on Ecumenical Patriarch Authority, which at 0% gives nothing and at 100% gives:
+2% Missionary strength (National)
−3 Local unrest (Provincial)
+33% Local manpower modifier (Provincial)
−33% Local tax modifier (Provincial)

This is terribly weak when you compare to the potential bonuses the Muslims can get, which has a 2-way scale with different benefits on both sides.

Positive Piety gives up to the following bonuses (100%)
+10% Morale of armies
+3% Missionary strength
+20% Fort defense

Negative piety gives up to the following bonuses (-100%)
−10% Technology cost
+20% National manpower modifier
+20% National tax modifier


So why bother? There is nothing interesting about Orthodoxy when compared to the flavor or perks offered by other denominations and religions. Muslims even get ruler modifier decisions. Oh well, moving on.

Currently taking the mission to restore the pentarchy does nothing but give 10 prestige and disable the papal mechanic, which then makes catholicism pretty much useless--like declaring the Kingdom of God.

If this were to have ever happened in real life the results would have been far more significant. If you are going to destroy catholicism as a religion through this mechanic, there should at least be something new to take its place. Perhaps this should at least give catholic rulers an option to convert without the prestige hit, and then open up orthodox conversion to all Christian denominations (thinking for multi-player here). I think the state that accomplishes this should get some campaign bonus equivalent to Unifying Islam.

The Unifying Islam Bonuses are as follows:
Stability cost: -20%
Missionary strength: +2%
Tolerance of the True Faith: +2
Tolerance of heretics: +1

The Curia Controller Bonuses are as follows:
+1 Diplomats
+1 Yearly prestige
−10% Stability cost modifier
+2 Possible advisors
−20% Advisor cost
+1 Leader(s) without upkeep
−20% Aggressive expansion impact
−5% Technology cost

Perhaps a bonus that is either equivalent to the Unify Islam or a nerfed form of curia controller would be appropriate. Or perhaps convert what is currently the "Ecumenical Patriarch" authority into the autocephalous patriarch authority, and then open up ecumenical patriarch mechanics that are in a similar line of thought when the pentarchy is restored and the schism is mended.


I think something along these lines would be appropriate. This also goes for The Pentarchy triggered modifier. What is up with that? Why does a triggered modifier that requires you to have 5 provinces owned and converted give only 0.5 prestige and 1 missionary when simply owning one province, like Mecca, gives 1 prestige and 1 missionary? This just simply doesn't make sense. Orthodoxy needs a serious rework, please include it in the upcoming expansion. Perhaps having all 5 of the Pentarchs under direct control should give some bonus towards the new aforementioned Ecumenical mechanic? Or each Pentarch individually confers some bonus? Just some thoughts.

With kind regards,
Vistariel

 

[3ishop]

And to cap it all Orthodoxy are rewarded for NOT increasing the power of the Church. Why do I need Stability cost -10% when I get free stab every few years from events? :/

 

[Incompetent]

I wouldn't say Orthodoxy is too bad in its current form. It's not very flashy, but it's very resistant to revolts, especially when paired with Religious ideas. Also, now that they are quite frequent, I'd see the periodic Patriarch Authority events as being the Orthodox cousin of Papal Influence. Each time you can choose either the one-off benefit or to upgrade your PA, and once your PA is near 100% (assuming that's where you want it to be) you'll be alternating between the two. The bonuses from these events are not amazing but you don't really need to do anything to earn them. (As for the Orthodox versus Islam comparison, you also have to factor in the Christian ability to form PUs and get powerful Christian allies, and also the raft of decisions Christians get to choose from.)

That said, I do agree that the Pentarchy thing should be more impactful, as the Orthodox equivalent of the 'Unify Islam' decision. A bonus like the one given by Unify Islam would certainly fit the Orthodox theme. I would make it a decision, and also make the decision give a big one-off PA boost (so in effect it frees you up to take a bunch more 'give me stuff' choices in PA events without depleting your PA).

 

[Vistariel]

I wouldn't say Orthodoxy is too bad in its current form. It's not very flashy, but it's very resistant to revolts, especially when paired with Religious ideas. Also, now that they are quite frequent, I'd see the periodic Patriarch Authority events as being the Orthodox cousin of Papal Influence. Each time you can choose either the one-off benefit or to upgrade your PA, and once your PA is near 100% (assuming that's where you want it to be) you'll be alternating between the two. The bonuses from these events are not amazing but you don't really need to do anything to earn them. (As for the Orthodox versus Islam comparison, you also have to factor in the Christian ability to form PUs and get powerful Christian allies, and also the raft of decisions Christians get to choose from.)

That said, I do agree that the Pentarchy thing should be more impactful, as the Orthodox equivalent of the 'Unify Islam' decision. A bonus like the one given by Unify Islam would certainly fit the Orthodox theme. I would make it a decision, and also make the decision give a big one-off PA boost (so in effect it frees you up to take a bunch more 'give me stuff' choices in PA events without depleting your PA).

Or giving a large tax bonus to offset the high patriarch authority would be nice.

 

[Incompetent]

Or giving a large tax bonus to offset the high patriarch authority would be nice.

That would be kind of amusing: +33% tax for 'all the Patriarchs are belong to us'.

Another thing that I think would be amusing is if the Patriarch has high authority, he sometimes randomly builds a temple or cathedral in a vacant building slot. (It neatly compensates for some of your tax losses, and if you don't like it, it costs nothing to tear the building down.)

Actually there could be a similar event for Religious ideas: your people become so devoted that they spontaneously decide to build a temple/cathedral. Religious countries should be full of religious buildings. (Maybe a powerful Clergy estate will do this kind of thing in the provinces they own when The Cossacks DLC is released.)