Orthodox countries

[unmerged(502)]

Can anyone list all the Orthodox provinces in the game? Is Armenia Orthodox? I understand that for some weird reason Ryazan is part of Khazan Khanate (it was never the case. As a matter of fact it remained the last major Russian indipendent princedom - until 1521) - is it Muslim then? And what is the situation like on the Balkans? Is Kosovo Orthodox?

 

[unmerged(839)]

just because Ryazan is part of Kazan, it doesn't mean that it's Muslim (Although it could be). for example all of the eastern provinces in Poland are Orthodox.

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I'm BAM, the god of diplomacy. so surrender all young, beautiful girls with supple bosoms to me.

 

[unmerged(548)]

Just open up your Province.csv and sort it by the religion column. Much faster then to ask anyone here to type each and every one into this forum, 100+ (?) orthodox provinces in the game.

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[unmerged(502)]

I dont have the game yet, sorry... Thats the reason asked.

Originally posted by Huszics:
Just open up your Province.csv and sort it by the religion column. Much faster then to ask anyone here to type each and every one into this forum, 100+ (?) orthodox provinces in the game.

 

[Dark Knight]

Orthodox provinces include Russia's starting provinces, Kazan, the Golden Horde, most of Astrakhan, Savolaks province (controlled by Sweden initially), Pskov, the eastern provinces of Poland-Lithuania, most of the Balkan provinces, Venice's three island provinces, Georgia's two provinces, Armenia province, a province around Syria, and a province in southern Egypt.

 

[unmerged(502)]

wow, one of te developers must have been orthodox since he included some non-Orthodox provinces as Orthodox...

Originally posted by Dark Knight:
Orthodox provinces include Russia's starting provinces, Kazan, the Golden Horde, most of Astrakhan, Savolaks province (controlled by Sweden initially), Pskov, the eastern provinces of Poland-Lithuania, most of the Balkan provinces, Venice's three island provinces, Georgia's two provinces, Armenia province, a province around Syria, and a province in southern Egypt.

 

[unmerged(28)]

Originally posted by webbrave:
wow, one of te developers must have been orthodox since he included some non-Orthodox provinces as Orthodox...

What do you mean? What provinces?
Note that we have put Russian-Orthodox, Greek-Orthodox, Syrian-Orthodox, Serbian-Orthodox, Coptic and Nestorian all in the same group in much the same way that the Calvinist, Zwinglians, Wycliffs and Hussites etc etc are all messed into the group 'Reformed'.

 

[unmerged(502)]

Didnt you also mention Kazan and Astrakhan?

Originally posted by Greven:
What do you mean? What provinces?
Note that we have put Russian-Orthodox, Greek-Orthodox, Syrian-Orthodox, Serbian-Orthodox, Coptic and Nestorian all in the same group in much the same way that the Calvinist, Zwinglians, Wycliffs and Hussites etc etc are all messed into the group 'Reformed'.

 

[unmerged(502)]

and what is that 'Savolaks' controlled by Sweden? The closest name I can think of is Solovki (Solovetzki monastery in North Russia) - is it what is meant here?

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Íåìöåâ òîëüêî ëåíèâûé íå áèâàë. Only the lazy did not defeat the Germans.
-War and Peace

 

[unmerged(28)]

Originally posted by webbrave:
and what is that 'Savolaks' controlled by Sweden? The closest name I can think of is Solovki (Solovetzki monastery in North Russia) - is it what is meant here?

No the province where Solovezkij monastry is in is called Far Karelia. Savolax is due west. Kuopio is a city in the province, in present day Finland. The population was Russian-orthodox in 1492. However the whole karelian population of the region was 'rather unruly'. Both Sweden and Russia (and earlier Novgorod) tried to wrest it under their control, but it was not until the early 16th century that control could be issued by force.

/Greven

 

[Hartmann]

I think, the reason for making some 'non orthodox' provinces orthodox in the game, is that the Russians will get them within the first half of the game. Now the 'conversion' procedure is not able to handle a slow change in religion etc. so things were obviously set rather with the 'goalstate' than the 'initial state' in mind.
This is also the case with regards to Russian CB shields all over eastern Europe, which wasn´t exactly true in 1492.
Btw.: YES, Ryazan didn´t belong to Kazan. AFAIK it was an independent Khanate for a long time. Only in the last decades of it´s existance it was ruled by orthodox puppet rulers from Moscow. So it wasn´t really an 'independent Russian principality' THEN.

Hartmann

Edit: No, I made a mistake: Before the Mongols came, Ryazan was already a Russian principality.
And in reply to the post BELOW: I think this is the same as with Russia. Some regions in the game got their religion with regard to a later 'goal state'. This is because the game has no 'religious dynamism', which could handle changes in religion more smoothly.

Hartmann

[This message has been edited by Hartmann (edited 07-02-2001).]

 

[unmerged(860)]

'Is Kosovo Orthodox?'

Kosovo should be orthodox as in the game years , as i understand them, Kosovo was still primarily occupied by serb nationals.

The Albanians have only been there for a few hundred years.

 

[unmerged(502)]

what are you talking about? Ryazan was never a knahhante! ever! It was a Russian city from its foundation until now. Due to its location it was always very vulnerable to attacks from the Mongols/Tatars - but it was never ruled by them. It had its own dynasty until it was incorporated into the Russian state.

Originally posted by Hartmann:
I think, the reason for making some 'non orthodox' provinces orthodox in the game, is that the Russians will get them within the first half of the game. Now the 'conversion' procedure is not able to handle a slow change in religion etc. so things were obviously set rather with the 'goalstate' than the 'initial state' in mind.
This is also the case with regards to Russian CB shields all over eastern Europe, which wasn´t exactly true in 1492.
Btw.: YES, Ryazan didn´t belong to Kazan. AFAIK it was an independent Khanate for a long time. Only in the last decades of it´s existance it was ruled by orthodox puppet rulers from Moscow. So it wasn´t really an 'independent Russian principality' THEN.

Hartmann

 

[Hartmann]

Originally posted by webbrave:
what are you talking about? Ryazan was never a knahhante! ever! It was a Russian city from its foundation until now. Due to its location it was always very vulnerable to attacks from the Mongols/Tatars - but it was never ruled by them. It had its own dynasty until it was incorporated into the Russian state.

Our posts crossed. I soon realized my error and edited my former post, but You were faster! You´re right, of course.

Hartmann

Another edit: But wasn´t at least Oleg a Tatar?

[This message has been edited by Hartmann (edited 07-02-2001).]

 

[unmerged(502)]

oh, you had me worried for a moment... You might have confused it with Kasimov - i think you mentioned this peculiar principality earlier...

Originally posted by Hartmann:
Our posts crossed. I soon realized my error and edited my former post, but You were faster! You´re right, of course.

Hartmann

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Íåìöåâ òîëüêî ëåíèâûé íå áèâàë. Only the lazy did not defeat the Germans.
-War and Peace

 

[unmerged(502)]

If you mean Oleg Ivanovich - then no, but as many Russian princes in that period, I a sure he had some Polovets blood in him through marriage.

Originally posted by Hartmann:
Our posts crossed. I soon realized my error and edited my former post, but You were faster! You´re right, of course.

Hartmann

Another edit: But wasn´t at least Oleg a Tatar?

[This message has been edited by Hartmann (edited 07-02-2001).]

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Íåìöåâ òîëüêî ëåíèâûé íå áèâàë. Only the lazy did not defeat the Germans.
-War and Peace

 

[Hartmann]

Originally posted by webbrave:
If you mean Oleg Ivanovich - then no, but as many Russian princes in that period, I a sure he had some Polovets blood in him through marriage.

I would be interested in getting more info about Ryazan. Do You know a good source? (Sorry again for my earlier mistake - I put the blame on my totally 'out-of-whack' sleeping pattern ).

Hartmann

 

[unmerged(502)]

sure, I have read a lot on Russian history and I'll be more than happy to help. Ryazan always fascinated me as the last Russian principality that remained independent of Moscow (if we don't count some really small principlaities noone realy cared about - like Odoev or Vorotynsk) - like Bretaigne in France. By the way, is Breaigne in te game? It remained independent until 1520.

Originally posted by Hartmann:
I would be interested in getting more info about Ryazan. Do You know a good source? (Sorry again for my earlier mistake - I put the blame on my totally 'out-of-whack' sleeping pattern ).

Hartmann

 

[Hartmann]

@webbrave: I would like to implement Ryazan as an orthodox minor. Problem is, we have no orthodox tag left, only muslim ones which would provide inappropriate 'Khanate'-like graphics. I´m also not sure, whether implementing Ryazan as an orthodox minor would have negative consequenzes on the performance of Russia - as they couldn´t declare war on them without some stability loss due to sameness of religion. Best way would be to make them a vassal with really good relations (i.e. close to annexation point).

Hartmann

 

[unmerged(90)]

Originally posted by webbrave:
By the way, is Breaigne in te game? It remained independent until 1520.

Yes and no.
Yes it is a possible minor, but no it isn't independent in the game, is part of France.
Historically, it was in 1492 a vassal of France but was meant to become part of France as the Duchesse Anne, without heir, was married to the French King. So it was easier to make it part of France.