As with the Heartlander thread, please post suggestions and ideas you have for the Orsimer in here. Also as with the Heartlander thread, we need solid ideas, not ambiguous "Flesh out the gameplay!".
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[!] Orsimer Feature Discussion & Suggestions
- Thread starter Korbah
- Start date
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I'll just quote myself. Small change, but I think we need it.
Edit: Just in case Orsimer don't get to enjoy new icons by @saffronmar sooner
Edit: Just in case Orsimer don't get to enjoy new icons by @saffronmar sooner
Orcs will be getting their own building icons. As for ideas, think of the defining traits for the Orcs such as Forges - how would this fit into a Ck2 gameplay, how one male having all the women as wives would complicate family fights etc etc. Trains of thoughts along those lines would be helpful to the team.
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There should be a way to challenge people for leadership in duels. Aka, "chief, I duel you for the duchy", if he loses, he dies and I get the duchy, if he refuses, he concedes and I get the duchy, if I die, he keeps the duchy.
Orsimer should also be able to craft orc weapons and have a much easier time getting the blacksmith trait.
Orsimer should also be able to craft orc weapons and have a much easier time getting the blacksmith trait.
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A flavourful rebuild-orsinium event where you get beset on all-sides by Bretons and Redguards.
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Orsinium should be able to get a rare event where tons of Orsimer in the form of special event troops flock to it if its owner has a certain prestige or martial/diplomacy and warlord. After getting this event, they would then go invading everything, theoretically. (I'm a sucker for hordes)
I also wish the AI would raid more overall, but especially with the Orsimer.
Putting in some independent barony-level strongholds throughout Tamriel would also be pretty cool, especially in the places they're canonically known to be.
Young orcs should also become landless adventurers more often, it'd be pretty neat to see an Orsimer Warband take land in exotic places.
I agree that they probably shouldn't have the stone castle graphics anymore, they seem to favor sloping, scaled architecture more than stone in the strongholds, but how that can be transferred stylistically into a castle is beyond me.
I don't know if it's already in the mod, but an orc's wives should all be plotting to become the first wife, as it seems to be the most important wifely position as referenced in Skyrim's dialogue.
I also wish the AI would raid more overall, but especially with the Orsimer.
Putting in some independent barony-level strongholds throughout Tamriel would also be pretty cool, especially in the places they're canonically known to be.
Young orcs should also become landless adventurers more often, it'd be pretty neat to see an Orsimer Warband take land in exotic places.
I agree that they probably shouldn't have the stone castle graphics anymore, they seem to favor sloping, scaled architecture more than stone in the strongholds, but how that can be transferred stylistically into a castle is beyond me.
I don't know if it's already in the mod, but an orc's wives should all be plotting to become the first wife, as it seems to be the most important wifely position as referenced in Skyrim's dialogue.
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Ok, here it goes:
1. Separate orcs into city orc and stronghold orc culture. - According to lore city orcs live with other races in cities, and stronghold orcs are independent as we've seen in Skyrim.
2. All starting orc rulers aught to be stronghold orc tribal rulers. - An orsimer culture county represents a county where stronghold orcs are predominant population unlike what we've seen in Skyrim which is a few strongholds among Nords.
3. More orcish counties across Tamriel. Strongholds are all over the place, but let's say in some remote regions stronghold orcs are dominant population as I've said in 2.
4. Orcs can't form kingdoms except Orsinium. - Orsinium isn't one place, every new Orsinium is at different location. So let's simulate building Orsinium by making Orsinium a kingdom, and only kingdom that orcs can form. Orsinium should be harder to form than regular kingdom.
5. Orsinium is a city, and as I said there's a difference between city orcs and stronghold orcs. When Orsinium is built it's repopulated by orcs from all over Tamriel, many of them (or most?) city orcs. So once you form Orsinium your culture changes to city orc and you get new orcish government which has city as main holding, but it's still feudal. However, perhaps the vassals should stay stronghold orcs and you call them to war. City orc government can build special buildings giving more troops. This should altogether make you strong enough to defend from when everyone else attacks you.
6. Which should happen as everyone else should get destroy Orsinium CB.
7. Unless they become vassals of the Tamrielic empire, they should be able to exist under them.
That's my idea for orc mechanic.
Now some lesser flavor.
1. Orcs are mercenaries all over the place. Perhaps anyone could hire orc mercenary who should be better, but more expensive, than regular marshal for hire. There's also a penality for having wrong culture/religion councilor, so it's balanced out, and potentially giving the merc some flags which lead to good and bad events (other courtiers want to get rid of him, he kills someone etc)
2. Orc and non-orc become blood kin. An event, perhaps part of some adventure or pilgrimage or with your orc courtier whos life you save in battle, that either makes you friend with specific orc character or gives you orc courtier.
3. Playing orc should have a plenty of dead orcs all around from various duels. I'd include a duel in a bunch of events, from carousing to just being in same army. Honor and strength and stuff makes them like that.
4. A trait or modifier for dishonest orcs "breaker of code of Malacath". The ones who don't behave as they should.
5. Maybe it's too much to ask, as it would probably need a whole new mechanic, wood orcs of Valenwood? Or maybe not, it's just a stronghold orcs who live in Valenwood and followers of green pact. So one or two counties of orcs with wood orc culture in Valenwood. But I don't think they should be able to form Orsinium as mentioned above, but could have few special events/trait or whatever.
6. Similarly for iron orcs. At least unique culture?
7. Iron orcs tame trolls for war. A troll units and troll bodyguard for orcs? Also goblins and ogres were in Orsinium.
8. Trinimac religion or heresy?
9. Orc war paint. As trait or... well, something, it should be included. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Red_Paint
1. Separate orcs into city orc and stronghold orc culture. - According to lore city orcs live with other races in cities, and stronghold orcs are independent as we've seen in Skyrim.
2. All starting orc rulers aught to be stronghold orc tribal rulers. - An orsimer culture county represents a county where stronghold orcs are predominant population unlike what we've seen in Skyrim which is a few strongholds among Nords.
3. More orcish counties across Tamriel. Strongholds are all over the place, but let's say in some remote regions stronghold orcs are dominant population as I've said in 2.
4. Orcs can't form kingdoms except Orsinium. - Orsinium isn't one place, every new Orsinium is at different location. So let's simulate building Orsinium by making Orsinium a kingdom, and only kingdom that orcs can form. Orsinium should be harder to form than regular kingdom.
5. Orsinium is a city, and as I said there's a difference between city orcs and stronghold orcs. When Orsinium is built it's repopulated by orcs from all over Tamriel, many of them (or most?) city orcs. So once you form Orsinium your culture changes to city orc and you get new orcish government which has city as main holding, but it's still feudal. However, perhaps the vassals should stay stronghold orcs and you call them to war. City orc government can build special buildings giving more troops. This should altogether make you strong enough to defend from when everyone else attacks you.
6. Which should happen as everyone else should get destroy Orsinium CB.
7. Unless they become vassals of the Tamrielic empire, they should be able to exist under them.
That's my idea for orc mechanic.
Now some lesser flavor.
1. Orcs are mercenaries all over the place. Perhaps anyone could hire orc mercenary who should be better, but more expensive, than regular marshal for hire. There's also a penality for having wrong culture/religion councilor, so it's balanced out, and potentially giving the merc some flags which lead to good and bad events (other courtiers want to get rid of him, he kills someone etc)
2. Orc and non-orc become blood kin. An event, perhaps part of some adventure or pilgrimage or with your orc courtier whos life you save in battle, that either makes you friend with specific orc character or gives you orc courtier.
3. Playing orc should have a plenty of dead orcs all around from various duels. I'd include a duel in a bunch of events, from carousing to just being in same army. Honor and strength and stuff makes them like that.
4. A trait or modifier for dishonest orcs "breaker of code of Malacath". The ones who don't behave as they should.
5. Maybe it's too much to ask, as it would probably need a whole new mechanic, wood orcs of Valenwood? Or maybe not, it's just a stronghold orcs who live in Valenwood and followers of green pact. So one or two counties of orcs with wood orc culture in Valenwood. But I don't think they should be able to form Orsinium as mentioned above, but could have few special events/trait or whatever.
6. Similarly for iron orcs. At least unique culture?
7. Iron orcs tame trolls for war. A troll units and troll bodyguard for orcs? Also goblins and ogres were in Orsinium.
8. Trinimac religion or heresy?
9. Orc war paint. As trait or... well, something, it should be included. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Red_Paint
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Wood Orcs? Iron Orcs? I hope that's ESO lore that gets skipped...
I like a lot of those other ideas though. What about dynamic mercs from HL for Code of Malacath government? That could simulate the children leaving for prestige and returning on succession.
I like a lot of those other ideas though. What about dynamic mercs from HL for Code of Malacath government? That could simulate the children leaving for prestige and returning on succession.
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Considering the fact that Orsinium has been rebuilt so many times, maybe you could have (at least some) Orcs start out nomadic and once they gain control of so many counties or duchies, they can use a "found Orsinium" decision that creates the kingdom level title, gives each Orc clan the duchy containing their holding, converts them all to tribes, and destroys the nomad titles. After that the former leader of the nomadic group becomes "king" of Orsinium and has to build up their holding, getting events along the way that have to deal with getting random bonuses or special buildings, such as more orcs flocking to their new homeland, a more easily defended site being discovered, a legendary Orc blacksmith arriving, etc. Eventually they'd get to the point where they could make Orsinium a proper kingdom and they'd have to decide what type of holding it'd be, either a city or a castle/stronghold, both with unique buildings available perhaps.
Orcs need to be able to change Crown Laws b/c as I understand they can't currently because of their government type.
They can. It's one of things that got fixed on the SVN shortly after 0.1.6 was released.
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My suggestion:
IF Orsinium isn't controlled by Orcs/K_Orsinium doesn't exist.
THEN all provinces in Skyrim and High Rock get a chance to spawn an "Orc Enclave" modifier (like the skeever/undead/whatever modifier, but can't pay money to avoid it)
These would be like the small Orc villages we saw in Skyrim.
THEN all provinces with these modifiers have a chance to spawn Orc rebels (could be tied to events, like, the Orcs ask for local control, giving them the county and making them your vassals, and if you refuse, rebels spawn)
IF rebels are successful, new Orsinium is founded.
IF Orsinium isn't controlled by Orcs/K_Orsinium doesn't exist.
THEN all provinces in Skyrim and High Rock get a chance to spawn an "Orc Enclave" modifier (like the skeever/undead/whatever modifier, but can't pay money to avoid it)
These would be like the small Orc villages we saw in Skyrim.
THEN all provinces with these modifiers have a chance to spawn Orc rebels (could be tied to events, like, the Orcs ask for local control, giving them the county and making them your vassals, and if you refuse, rebels spawn)
IF rebels are successful, new Orsinium is founded.
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Hm, perhaps all the mountain provinces in Skyrim, High Rock, and maybe Hammerfell? Seems like they preferred high, defensible locations.
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I saw changes to the orsimer in the SVN and this thread, so imagine my disappointment when I start an ironman mode and the dueling mechanic is still broken. The fact losing a duel to one of your sons is what happens 99% of the time on succession (instead of rule by might) this should really be top priority. It doesn't have to be as complex as it could be down the road. But age and personal combat skill brackets should be used to determine outcomes. The typical outcome should be that your son (and sometimes you) will receive the wounded or maimed trait and nothing happens. But if you're really old or your son has a much high combat skill (like 4-5+) you will be slain and the son that fought you becomes ruler (sometimes the son may received wounded or maimed with the chances lowering depending on how much more combat skill he has over you). Additionally if your son has a much lower combat skill than you they have a higher chance of dying than usual and a much lower chance (like 1% in extreme cases) to win, with similarly smaller chances to stop the duel while receiving wounded or maimed.
At the moment it's an empty duel window that always results in the ruler's death.
At the moment it's an empty duel window that always results in the ruler's death.
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1. Trinimac religion
2. Orcs should use the nomad mercenary/ adventurer function for their sons and have more random orcs go looking for tiles.
3. Strongholds should be tribes.
4. Dragontail mts should have more orcs and some orc rulers.
5. Orsinium should only be able to made by orcs.
6. If Orsinium is not in game, Orcs have a chance to make it if it has 3 or more provinces.
7. If Orsinium is not in game, Orcs have a greater chance for random orcs or adventurer to go looking for tiles.
8. Empire can form Orsinium or grant Orsinium special status in the Empire.
3. Strongholds should be tribes.
4. Dragontail mts should have more orcs and some orc rulers.
5. Orsinium should only be able to made by orcs.
6. If Orsinium is not in game, Orcs have a chance to make it if it has 3 or more provinces.
7. If Orsinium is not in game, Orcs have a greater chance for random orcs or adventurer to go looking for tiles.
8. Empire can form Orsinium or grant Orsinium special status in the Empire.
"Orsinium had asked the Imperial authorities to raise it to Provincial status, making it recognized as a fully-fledged Province of Tamriel. Its request was under review and given the likelihood of a stable future with its previous rival High Rock, many believed Orsinium had a very good chance of succeeding in its goal.[2] It is unknown if it became a province prior to its sacking in the early Fourth Era."
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Orsinium
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Orsinium
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Is it possible for Orcs to make use of the migration mechanic? So when things get a bit too hairy they can try to pull up roots and resettle elsewhere?
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That'd kind of fit into my suggestion of having them start out nomadic: if they're being forced out of High Rock they can try to fight their way out to Skyrim, High Rock, or Cyrodiil and then settle in calmer lands.
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I think I read in one of game books about the Orcs in Orsinium trying to build a new Tower. Orcs should have the possible to make a Tower if Orsinium has not made one.
Problem is this would most likely require that they own a specific county and haven't built a certain holding yet. Looking at the files, the Towers (or at least the buildings that define them) are actually made unique to the related holdings because each of these holdings is specified in the requirements for those buildings. In theory, you could make any holding a Tower by adding its name from the files into the specifications for each building in "01_tower" in the buildings folder.
You could make it a permanent modifier to whatever the relevant holding was, rather than a special building.