Oranje's Dutch AAR,

[unmerged(538)]

You might need a Cassus Belli, After all as orange said If he declares war again his stability plunges, from +3 to -3. -1 for being the same religion as spain, and -5 for declaring a war on the same nation within 5 years of a peace treaty signed with them. Besides he can wait because it appears that this war will drain all the sides, and it is possible that Spain might lose. ANd be recovering for some time, so when 5 years is up he can muster a bigger force and free the lowlands. Frreeeeeddddddooooommmmmmmm!!!!!!
Just a little braveheart.

------------------
'We must do more than defeat their armies, we must destroy them.' General Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson

 

[hjarg]

Didn't he mention something about having permanent casus belli? And wait until the war is over.... hmmmm... than Spain can concentrate all his remaining forces on Holland and her allies, but when Spain is at war with French too, they must divide their forces and are therefore easier to defeat.

But who am i to tell.. i don't have the game yet and can't tell how bad is the stability drop.

 

[Oranje]

Originally posted by hjarg:
Didn't he mention something about having permanent casus belli? And wait until the war is over.... hmmmm... than Spain can concentrate all his remaining forces on Holland and her allies, but when Spain is at war with French too, they must divide their forces and are therefore easier to defeat.

But who am i to tell.. i don't have the game yet and can't tell how bad is the stability drop.

Hello,

Yes, The Netherlands have got a permanent CB allright against Spain. Nevertheless the stability drop would occur if I strike twice at them within 5 years.
Results would be decreased income, and raised revolt risk. I can't cope with that now.
Yes, it's nice ofcourse to attack the enemy when he's already fighting someone else, but our time will come, it's just 9 years played sofar and I've already tripled in size

greetings, Oranje

 

[unmerged(538)]

He mentioned that he should have the right to declare war because of the permenant hatred of Spanish in the lowlands, but he said stability would drop from +3 to -3, and I know ffrom other AAR this can cause mayhem. Loss of lots of money, morale amoung troops, as well as peasent revolt. Spain doens't have huge forces in this area though, besides it looks likely that they will lose this war, and even if they manage to stay the french off they are going to have heavy causulties both sides will need to rebuild depennding on the length of the war, it appears neither side has an apparent upper hand , I think the war will rage on for at least 2 or 3 years. Maybe it won't last that long but still this will bankrupt both sides most certainly.

------------------
'We must do more than defeat their armies, we must destroy them.' General Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson

 

[hjarg]

Oh, well, never mind then... they will probably start a new war within couple of years anyway.

But still, wouldn't it be wiser to attack when the Spain is at war already? And i don't mean that you must attack right away... wait for couple of month... maybe a year. Then both have had some big battles, lost their armies, emptied coffers. And Spain must still fight the French as well.

 

[unmerged(602)]

Wonderful!! Keep goin buddy

 

[Oranje]

Oranje's Dutch AAR, part 5 1501-1504

Jan
We invest in some more structural improvements in Flandres, promoting an official, and arrange two more Royal marriages with England and Bavaria. We also trade some maps with Marocco.
This provides precious knowledge of the Arabian peninsula, as well as the Persian gulf and Persia itself (nice, next we will try to establish a trade presence in that area; the rich Persian COT in Isfahan will be the next destination for our merchants).

Foix and Colonna get to Franche Comté first. The french reinforcement in Bourgogne then decides Foix should be ok on his own and heads SE. The 32k French from Provence have reached Savoy and next head due East to Milan.
Foix however looses the battle against Spain in FC and retreats to Nivernais.
The 45k Spaniards lay siege to the city. Meanwhile the french are besieging Milan again.
Also, the small 5k Kurpfalz army is achieving remarkeble succes against the fortress of Reims in Champagne.

Feb-Mar
Champagne falls to Kurpfalz. Milan is already showing some cracks as well.
Navarra is under siege from 19k Lorraine forces. Navarra reacts to the threat at home and its army abandons the Artois siege to rush back home again.

Apr-Jun
French reinforcements reach Milan. The now 59k strong siege army storms the fortress.
14k Papal forces reach poor Artois and once again Arras is under siege.

Jul
Franche Comté falls to Spain. The Spanish army then marches SE again toward Switzerland.
Foix is trying to link up with the forces in MIlan, but to avoid an early cofrontation with the Spaniards, he must march his men all the way south to Dauphiné, before heading East to Savoy and Milan.

Aug-Sep
The Spanish get to Switzerland, then decide to try to intercept Foix in Savoy.
Navarra forces defeat the Lorraine army in their home province.

Oct
Foix escapes and gets to Milan October 1, the next day the Spanish reach Savoy and lay siege.
October 6 Milan falls to the french.
October 7 Kurpfalz arranges a separate peace with France, while paying 250D indemnities (that must have caused quite a sigh of relief at the Kurpfalz court). Remember Kurpfalz at this time could no longer engage fresh troops into the war with France, as they were separated from the enemy by Spanish and Lorraine territory, which they could no longer pass through after their separate peace with the Swiss. On the other hand France, being still at war with both parties, could easily strike at Kurpfalz territory.

Nov-Dec
Foix has been sent south? from Milan with 36k men and 50 canon. The remaining 23k French and 30 canon march north to Switzerland again, where they get beaten by a tiny Spanish army. Surely they've not recovered from the long siege in Milan yet.
Meanwhile Spains main army in Savoy is being engaged by a modest 6k Papal force, which gives them serious trouble as well. Spanish reinforcements arrive to the scene but can't find the Spanish positions and end up on the Papal side of the battle. Instead of the Spanish forces quickly finishing up the Papal Swiss Garde, the battle locks up completely (must be a bug).

1502 Jan-Mar
The french send 16k fresh troops into the war; they march to Switzerland, quickly do away with the small Spanish garrison and lay siege. Assistance comes from a 17k Savoy army.
Artois falls to the Papal States, the 10k remaining forces march on Luxemburg next.
It now seems Spain is on the virge of a series of serious losses, having only modest reserves, and their only substantial army being held up in Savoy.

Apr-Dec
The rest of the year doesn't bring many developments. It seems both main adversaries are getting crippled by the war efforts. Spain lands a small force in Emilia and the Papal forces give up their siege of Luxemburg, marching south to Italy.
Of all countries represented in the game-ledger
The Dutch still have the smallest army, France the largest
There is no Dutch fleet, Turkey has by far the largest
The Netherlands is number 6 in wealth, England is 1st
We're 1st in infra- and trade tech levels, 2nd in army tech, 5th in naval tech
(largely thanks to neighbour research bonusses)

1503 Jan-Jun
Dutch monthly income up to 20D now, yearly income has risen to around 70D.
Two more RM's are concluded with Portugal and Genua.

Jul-Aug
In July Switzerland finally falls to Savoy.
In August Spain may consider itself very lucky when a peace treaty is resolved with France.
Spain pays just 40D indemnity.
Both sides have suffered great losses, but insufficient progress has been made in the war by either side to warrant another outcome of the peace talks. The only real gain is still for Spain though, having annexed Switzerland.
All allies get a big thank you, but no territory.
On top of that there are several armies, mostly of the minor allies, that cannot go home after the end of the war.
A Lorraine army, retreated to Gerona after suffering defeat in Navarra and is trapped. Same goes for the papal forces in France, etc. (this seems to be something that needs fixing)

Sep
Spain apparently found new lands during the war and is already at odds with the natives. Word arrives at the court that Spain has declared war on an unknown tribe called the Aztecs. Naturally they don't call on their allies this time .

Oct
The Netherlands get hit by an unprecedented political crises. Karel has fallen ill and his abilities suffer greatly. The ensuing political intrigues in the country have also caused a big drop in stability from +3 to zero. Revolt risk has gone up to 12% in Zeeland and Flanders as a result, and tax revenue will suffer as well.
Some quick adjustments to the budget are warranted; investments are diverted to ensure a quick recovery.

Nov-Dec
Turkey declares war on the Mamelucks, followed by its allies Algier and Hedschas.
Mameluks will probably be no match for them. All of Turkey's troops are concentrated in their European provinces however, so Mamelucks have some time to reinforce first.

1504
Bavaria is included in our alliance. Not very useful as it seems now (Bavaria doesn't share a border with any other alliance member), but it serves to keep them excluded from other alliances for the time being.

The Aztecs loose a province to Spain and pay 250D as well in the peace treaty.
After some initial success against modest Turkish armies, the Mamelucks seem to be loosing out against the Turks.
Nussaybin is the first Mameluck province taken by the Turks.

VP's at the end of the year read
1. Spain 251 (167 of their total from discoveries and colonies)
2. Netherlands 170 (81 military points, 70 diplomatic)
3. France 160 (110 military)

greetings, Oranje

 

[Hartmann]

A little late maybe, but my congrats for that great and detailed AAR, Oranje!

I like hearing France having annexed Naples for a change as in all my games Spain annexed them so far. But could it be that Austria´s performance is lacking since the latest patches? They generally did well in the earlier versions of the game but in my games started with 1.05b on they never got off the ground. (But that´s maybe just a coincidence.)

Best wishes for Karel´s reconvalescence!

I´m looking forward to the next installment.

Regards, Hartmann

 

[Traveler]

wow....

Great AAR. Amazing detail, like I was there watching it. The Big War between France and Spain and their allies was awesome, it must have been hard just sitting there and not being able to pounce on the Spaniards in the low country, but I understand the reasons.

I don't have the game but have read LLLLOTSS of posts about the game and agree that they, meaning those who made the game, need to fix some small quirks in the game mechanics. I think armies no longer at war in foreign lands should be given a certain amount of time to vacate the territory.

Keep up the good work Oranje!!!

 

[KRonn]

Wow, you certainly had some massive warfare going on there! Thanks for the impressive play by play.

But poor Holland! Long way to go but it's still very, very early.

I anxiously await the next chapter.

 

[unmerged(538)]

How soon till you reclaim those Spanish provinces? Still bide your time and stab them in the back. Yes, death to the spaniards.

------------------
'We must do more than defeat their armies, we must destroy them.' General Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson

 

[unmerged(602)]

As usual, great AAR. Keep up the good work!

 

[unmerged(639)]

Great AAR! Keep it up, this game seems to be incredible.

'I think armies no longer at war in foreign lands should be given a certain amount of time to vacate the territory'
How about if they were returned to the nearest friendly territory with say 50% loss?

 

[unmerged(538)]

More, more oranje. I need more. I'm addicted. Yep, it's like a drug. Yes, yes it is. And this is true.

------------------
'We must do more than defeat their armies, we must destroy them.' General Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson

 

[Traveler]

dagg no new posts, I need my fix.... and Oranje is dishin out the good stuff, hehe ....

William II,

I know this isn't the place for this but since we started talkin about it

'I think armies no longer at war in foreign lands should be given a certain amount of time to vacate the territory'

' How about if they were returned to the nearest friendly territory with say 50% loss?'

well, I agree. They could ask for money also, a fee for restitution to allow your armies to pass or some other penalty but to just allow the army to just sit and go the way of the dodo is no answer. Even ancient games like Civ. allowed you an opportunity to withdraw armies from other peoples territories to avoid conflicts.

Sorry about this Oranje I know this is your AAR and not the General Forums

 

[Oranje]

Oranje's Dutch AAR, part 6 1505

1505 Jan-Mar
Three more merchants are sent to Holstein to bring our total there to 5.
At this point we have a monopoly in Antwerp (Flanders) and 5 merchants each in Isfahan, Novgorod, Holstein, Venice and 4 in Genoa.
Monopolies are ofcourse excellent to have, but only in a COT you own, you may expect your own merchants to be pushed out at a reduced rate. In other COT's trying to achieve a monopoly should only be done when the total numer of merchants present is still rather low, or when your trade tech is really away from the pack by a couple of levels. Otherwise, you'd be investing more in sending merchants than you get in terms of trade income. Usually when you leave it at 5 merchants per COT they don't get pushed out very often.

Now, as the 5 years since the last war with Spain have passed, we're set to have another go at their territory in the low lands. We raise an additional 6k infantry, bringing the Treasury back to just about zero. Artillery is far too expensive; we could only build a lousy 10 pieces instead of the preferred 6k infantry, so we must hope that our military commanders van Rossem and van Gelre will be able to wrestle some more provinces from the enemy without.
This one will again depend greatly on our allies, as the Dutch forces will only number 23/2/0.

March 4 the Declaration of War is despatched by courier to the Spanish court. Lorraine, Scotland and Poland join in with the Spaniards. Kurpfalz decides to stay out of the war this time, three hurrays for that decision!
We then make a quick offer for a white peace to Lorraine, which is gracefully accepted; hurray again!
Lorraine agreeing to the peace treaty effectively prohibits Spain to send any forces from Franche Comté and Switzerland through their territory to the lowlands.
Our call on our allies is rewarded by all of them stepping into the new war, except Bavaria (I already expected that).
Unfortunately Poland and Scotland are not interested in peace now, Poland being the bigger threat of these two, being able to send in troops into Brandenburg territory and further west to the Netherlands. They'll nee time to get there ofcourse.

Immediately van Rossum and his army of 22/2/0 are sent north, to deal with the 8k Spanish forces in Friesland, before they link up with the 11k Spanish army in The Hague.
Karel van Gelre and just 1k Infantry is marching south, to assist our allies in an expected battle with the Spanish 11k garrison in Luxemburg.

March 19 van Rossem gets to Friesland, as the 11k Spanish forces in The Hague make their way south to Zeeland.

March 26 we get a surprise with mixed blessings; Savoy sends a DOW to Scotland. Her allies follow suit, including France and Sweden. Spain also enters the new war on Scotland's side. As a result, this will probably ensure Scotland's forces staying at home for the time being, but also we might very well get some French competition for the Spanish low countries. Finally, Spain will now be able to reinforce their troops in the low countries overland, just marching them through enemy french territory. We'll probably not be able to give a good account of this war, as all of our writers have been assigned to the Dutch armies.

March 29 van Rossem completely wiped out the Spanish forces in Friesland. He is ordered south again with a modest army; the remaining 18k Infantry is laying siege to the Groningen fortress in Friesland.
Several Spanish armies totalling some 60k march north from Iberia. France seems to be moving on Franche Comté once again.
The first 10k (Cologne) army to reach Luxemburg is completely butchered by the Spanish, although the Spanish suffered severe losses as well.

Apr-May
van Gelre links up with 10k Kleve forces, that have already annihilated the remaining 6k Spanish troops in the province of Luxemburg and have started a siege.
The 11k Spaniards from The Hague have reached Hainaut and are intercepted by 21k forces from Hessen and Kleve. These turn out to be no match for the Spaniards and the Hessen/Kleve army quickly flees to Zeeland.
Another 33k Hannover/Brandenburg army is on their way to Hainaut, and van Rossem joins with them.

Jun
A main concern in our headquarters is some 70k Polish forces coming in from the East; their closest (16k) army has now reached Brandenburg.

Meanwhile the Luxemburg and Groningen sieges seem to be going ok for our troops.
van Rossem and the allied army get to Hainaut and soundly beats the Spanish, which flee to Artois. The allied army chases the Spanish into Artois and the Spanish get completely annihilated.
van Rossem has stayed behind in Hainaut, where he gets company from the 18k remaining Hessen/Kleve army that previously fled to Zeeland but has made its way to Hainaut again. Siege is laid to the province capital.
The Hannover/Brandenburg army tries to storm the Artois fortress.

Jul
July 23 Luxemburg falls to Karel van Gelre, mainly thanks to the 50 canons from Kleve; the Dutch flag is raised! Karel then quickly marches on Artois, hoping to get there in time before the allied force succeed in taking the province.
The 16k Polish army has now reached Magdeburg and another 9k are in Brandenburg; both armies are still marching west through our allies territory, where no troops remain, other than the fortress garrisons. Luckily the Polish main army has decided to lay siege to Brandenburg's most eastern province of Kustrin. Let's hope the fortress there gives them a hard time .....

July 29 Artois falls to Hannover, van Gelre is too late to claim the province.
Surprisingly a small Swedish detachment has landed in Friesland, joining our forces in the siege.
van Gelre immediately decides to march north, as we have no knowledge of the swedish general's capabilities, and we don't want to see a Swedish flag waving in Friesland.

Aug
The Swedes ignite a storm of the Groningen fortress, which stays fruitless for the time being, but morale of the troops suffers greatly. This is bad, as the Poles are still closing in, and we still can't be sure of their destination, although it seems they're turning south.
Meanwhile the first 10k Spanish reinforcements are getting rather close as well; they're marching north a little south of Calais.
The remaining 20k Hannover troops, after the victory in Artois, has marched east again to Luxemburg, and then north to Cologne.

Sep
Another minor war: Persia declares war on Irak; Irak's alliance joins, but will probably not be able to help much.
van Gelre has reached Holland and is trying to get to Friesland.
van Rossem now commands a 40k siege army in Hainaut, having been joined by two smaller armies from Brandenburg and Cologne.
The Hannover army in Cologne clashes with the first 16k Polish army.

Oct
van Gelre gets to Friesland, in time to make sure that the Dutch flag will wave from the fortress after its defeat, which seems really close now.
Indeed on October 27 the fortress falls to our troops. van Gelre then marches his small contingent south again to link up with the Hannover army in Cologne; the rest of the Dutch main army is sent to The Hague to start a siege there.
October 28 the Poles loose to the Hannoverians in Cologne after a fierce battle and they flee south to Luxemburg, where their remaining 11k men start to besiege the provinces fortress.

Nov-Dec
The 10k Spanish army has reached Flanders, but is still marching north toward Zeeland, upon arrival, they march East toward Cologne.
The Turks and Mamelucks make peace; Turkey gains Nussaybin and 127D in indemnities.
The 17k remaining Hannover army in Luxemburg now start marching on Hainaut as well.

greetings, Oranje

 

[Oranje]

Oranje's Dutch AAR, part 7 1506

1506 Jan
The winter that set in last month is costing the Poles huge attrition effects in Kustrin. Kustrin being a province with very limited support for enemy armies anyway, the Poles have meanwhile seen their main army dwindle from an original 56k to only 29k now.
January 4 Hainaut falls to the Netherlands. van Rossem is quickly sent to Cologne, where the Spaniards have meanwhile begun to besiege the city. He's confident that the allied forces are marching with him in the same direction.
The spanish forces meanwhile have no trouble at all beating a freshly recruited 15k Cologne army, and they quickly flee north. Another 11k Spanish troops are marching north from Champagne, obviously trying to get to Cologne as well. Kleve, Hessen and Hannover are all recruiting new armies as well, all of which are sent to The Hague as soon as they are complete.
The Poles in Luxemburg split up their forces in Luxemburg and send 7k north to Cologne.

Feb
van Rossem clashes with the 6/6/10 army in Cologne, but unfortunately the main body of the allied forces apparently have changed their destination: van Rossem arrives in Cologne with only his own 2/2/0 Dutch forces and a small but precious Kleve army consisting of 0/2/50. We don't want to loose all those precious canons, so we'll have to fight it out! Luckily our trust in van Rossem is not misplaced and in just a few days he wins the battle, not loosing many men or canon, sending a demoralized and decimated enemy fleeing south.

Mar-Apr
Allied reinforcements are marching on The Hague. The Polish siege army in Luxemburg is just 6k strong now, so we're pretty confident that the fortress will hold them off for quite a while.
To avoid unnecessary attrition the Dutch main army of 16k infantry is ordered to leave The Hague as soon as the allied forces arrive. Only van Gelre remains in The Hague with a tiny Dutch force, to make sure the Dutch flag will be flying on the fortress when it falls. van Rossem is ordered to go to Holland province as well.

All of Spains troops are ordered to retreat back to Iberia, as they seem to be loosing out in France as well as the lowlands, and there are hardly any reinforcements available to them.
Poland has meanwhile reinforced its troops in Kustrin to 39k. This siege finally is going somewhere for the Poles.
In The hague little progress has been made with the siege sofar, but things will start to go better pretty soon, as the Canons from Kleve are on their way .....

May
May 1st the 45 remaining Kleve canons get to The Hague. In the next few days more reinforcements from our allies arrive and the total number of troops (39k) is now exceeding the support limit for the province. A storm attempt (too early, argggg, I'd sure like to have a bit more control over allied armies when I'm the alliance leader, permanent and temporary, and I've got a leader present in a siege) is triggered and fails miserably ofcourse, some 5k dead are found at the city's walls.

Jun
27k more allied reinforcements on the way to The hague, this will be a real costly one (for my allies ).
van Rossem joins with the main Dutch army in Holland and is ordered south to Cologne, in order to tackle the Poles in Luxemburg if necessary (that is, if Luxemburg would give in quicker than expected).

Jul
Kustrin falls to the Poles. Their remaing 32k main army under general Ostrogski is unwilling to confront the 19k Brandenburg forces laying in wait for them in Brandenburg's main province and they march NE to western Prussia, where a 15 ships Polish fleet is available in the coastal area. Maybe they're planning an amphibious assault?

August
Luxemburg is still holding out ok against the 6k Poles, Switzerland falls to France; The French next move is on? (you've guessed it) Franche Comté. Another all-out assault on The Hague fails. The Brandenburg army marches east to recapture Kustrin.
Spanish troops have been reinforced to 33k and they are marching north from Iberia once again.

Sep
The The Hague fortress is finally beginning to show some cracks, but the ensuing third assault attempt also fails.
Still more dead bodies.
Unfortunately Luxemburg is also beginning to show so cracks under the Polish siege.

Oct
The Luxemburg situation is quickly worsening and van Rossem and his purely Dutch army is sent in to stop the Poles from conquering this province, which is vital to our war effort.
He gets there just in time, on the 27th of October, completely wipes out the Poles in just a few days. van Rossem looses about a thousand men only. Good, Luxemburg is still ours.
FC falls to France; the Spanish main 22k army heads for Switzerland.

Dec
The Polish fleet appears in the Zuiderzee (Dutch coastal area) and van Rossem is sent north again.
Late in the month the Poles land a 10k army under Ostrogski in our Holland province and starts to besiege Amsterdam.

greetings, Oranje

 

[unmerged(602)]

MORE MORE MORE!!!

 

[hjarg]

Polan invading Holland? Why not Scotland then... or someone in the Caribbean? If you could only get Russia to attack Poland...
But the Spanish seem to have a lot of troubles. War with France was just lucky for you. Hope you win your independance soon. And keep them coming!!!

 

[unmerged(602)]

You are definitely the man, keep the hits comin!