Oranje blanje bleu

[unmerged(3959)]

In Eu2 the flag used for the Netherlands is red, white and blue. However the first used flag was actually orange, white and blue, this gradually changed to the current flag for unknown reasons, see for instance here. Wouldn't it be cool (and maybe more historical) to use the first flag? I don't know if it is possible to change flags through events?

 

[Mad King James]

Actually this bugs me too, but Europe isn't my department
Here lemme toss something together ;D

 

[Mad King James]

the 'Princeflag'

 

[unmerged(8608)]

that's good. I much prefer the original orange...it's just more dutch. (and historical)

 

[Mad King James]

I heard it was easier to see the red stripe at sea, that the orange and light blue weren't strong enough colours to see at a distance. So they picked colours of much higher contrast (dark blue and red)

Kind of a dumb reason if you ask me The orange stripe is so unique! Only the dutch flag had it! Then they picked the colours of half the damn planet

 

[unmerged(3959)]

Looks great, thanx! I like the orange much better too, cause it's so unique. Only Ireland comes to mind as a country with orange in its flag. I must say I have greater sympathy for countries that have a more interesting flag, like Sweden. I mean, if you look at the flags for all the new Eastern-European nations, they are almost the same. Don't they want something special?

 

[unmerged(7398)]

Originally posted by Rebel Clown
In Eu2 the flag used for the Netherlands is red, white and blue. However the first used flag was actually orange, white and blue, this gradually changed to the current flag for unknown reasons, see for instance here. Wouldn't it be cool (and maybe more historical) to use the first flag? I don't know if it is possible to change flags through events?

It's unfortunately not possible to change the flag mid-game.

I did run across the orange flag while checking up on the Netherlands, and was in fact going to include it in the GUFSM (as it contrasts better with Luxembourgh), until I hit this paragraph on FOTW (on that same page, in fact):

In 1572 the orange-white-blue flag was first mentioned when the town of Den Briel was liberated. The red-white-blue flag was first mentioned in 1596. Around 1630 more flags with a red stripe were used, and after 1660 the version with the orange stripe became very rare.

which indicates that the red-white-blue was in use for a much larger slice of the EU2 timeframe than the orange-white-blue.

 

[unmerged(3959)]

True, but it was the flag used during the struggle for independence, and quite some time afterwards, which should have a greater weight I think. And, like you said, it's a more distinctive flag. I don't know which flag is used for the U.S.A. in the game, the one they started with, or the one that's used the most in EU's timeframe? Maybe they're the same?

 

[unmerged(7398)]

Originally posted by Rebel Clown
True, but it was the flag used during the struggle for independence, and quite some time afterwards, which should have a greater weight I think. And, like you said, it's a more distinctive flag. I don't know which flag is used for the U.S.A. in the game, the one they started with, or the one that's used the most in EU's timeframe? Maybe they're the same?

Touche.

The USA flag in the game is the one used 1777-1795; the 15-starred flag was used for slightly longer, from 1795-1818.

 

[unmerged(3959)]

So, can I make I plea to include it in the Grand Unified Flag/Shield Mod? Please?

 

[unmerged(7398)]

Originally posted by Rebel Clown
So, can I make I plea to include it in the Grand Unified Flag/Shield Mod? Please?

Anyone else from the area feel strongly either way? (Or anyone else who feels qualified to have an opinion - I certainly don't. )

And if so, should we use the tricolor on the shield also, or keep Birger Jarl's lion (below)?

 

[Mad King James]

I have a personal liking for the princeflag myself, though the coat of arms should stay. I suppose it's a real taste thing, though the current flag is the more historically accurace overall, either one is 'right'.

 

[unmerged(3959)]

I like the shield as well, so my vote would be princeflag and shield.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

I don't much like the Lion. It doesn't stand out as much and it doesn't really represent the States General. The Orange is cool though. I vote Orange Tricolour shield and flag.

 

[unmerged(7564)]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
I don't much like the Lion. It doesn't stand out as much and it doesn't really represent the States General. The Orange is cool though. I vote Orange Tricolour shield and flag.

I will second that vote.

(Scotland?, Holland? the old Saxon shield? County of Holland? Who can tell the difference? Just kidding and no offense!)

 

[Birger]

Flag based shields, where will this end?.....

 

[unmerged(7398)]

Originally posted by Birger Jarl
Flag based shields, where will this end?.....

I'll read that as a vote for "Keep the Lion."

It seems using the orange-striped flag is pretty unanimous, so it's in.

Whether to use a flag- or arms-based shield, though, is more evenly split (since I'm personally leaning towards the arms, if only to prevent a bad precedent). Perhaps a lion superimposed over the tricolor, like this?

(Danger! Danger! Very rough sketch below!)

 

[Birger]

I don't mind which one we use as long it's historical correct.
Btw, why not have a seperate mod with shields based on flags, (who wants that? )

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Isn't the Lion Holland rather than States General?

 

[Seli]

From (somewhere on) this site

Republican Arms.

During the Spanish occupation, the provinces of the Netherlands (which then included present Belgium) formed a parliament, the Staten-Generaal. A total of 17 provinces was represented. As many of the provinces had a lion in their arms, the symbol of the Staten-Generaal became a lion. A sword was added as a symbol of power and 17 arrows as a symbol of unity.

seal

In 1579 the northern provinces united in the Union of Utrecht and formed their own Republic of the Seven United Netherlands. At the same time a similar union was formed in the South, basically dividing the Netherlands and Belgium. The Republic, which became officially independent in 1648, but was practically independent since 1579, took the arms of the 17 provinces, but changed the number of arrows to 7. As colours, the colours of Holland, the most important of the newly united provinces, were taken. The arms of Holland are or, a lion rampant gules, tongue and nails azure. These arms, sometimes with modifications, were used until the French occupation in 1795.

Oh and on the flag:

Flag.

The Dutch national flag, tiercy per fess, red, white and blue, is also derived from the banner of the Princes of Orange-Nassau. The original colours were orange, white and blue, but later changed to red, white and blue. During the Republic this flag was most commonly used, but was not the official flag. The official flag was yellow, with the red lion, including arrow and sword, from the Arms. However, even in the 17th century the latter flag was used only for the Staten-Generaal itself. Seventeenth century paintings always show the red-white-blue banner.
Even during the French occupation the red-white-blue flag was used, with only the Arms of the Bataafsche Republiek (as The Netherlands were called during the first years of French occupation) in a corner. As Luxembourg is an independent Grand-Duchy and the Grand Dukes were formerly also from a branch of the house of Nassau, the Luxemburgian flag is also derived from the Dutch flag.