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General_Grant

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By the way, I knew there was an event to re-create the Mughal Empire, but it seemed to me that conditions were harsher than yours ... 100 pts of prestige, and many more key-cities to occupy, until the capitale city of Hyderabad, in central India.
What were your event's conditions please ??
VIP's consditions are different: you need to control and own Lahore (Panjab), Karachi (Sindh), Srinagar (Kashmir), and to control (but not own) Delhi, Jaipur and another city that I forgot (was it Gwailor?) but that I removed from the list for the following reasons: I would had needed two wars with Britain to get it, because you can only invade the princely states one at the time and getting a land border with them is compulsory to declare war (because you are an unciv.). I know it makes it much more easy, but it would not be realistic looking and barely explainable to have to occupy all of India (because thats what you need to force any peace out of the UK), including Delhi, to get a border with a princely state of secondary importance.

Marching on Delhi with enough power behind (most of mod. day Pakistan in this case) would be enough to proclaim a new Mughal Empire considering the Indian rebels did it in 1857 with no support from any prince, just by crowning the emperor. Sorry if I may sounds like cheating my way but its not the case. :(


truth is life: it was probably easier than in VIP because I doesn't have a 'British India' that focus on me with its colonial divisions, only the United Kingdom wich spreads on every continent and is alway busy in a war far away. And I must admit that the Opium war helped me alot. But I still had massive fighting against British partisans wich can easily be seen in the screenshot showing all of India occupied.

On the other hand, in VIP, when you occupy a good percentage of British India, the UK will annex it, making anything you occuped previously directly yours. Wich is a much easier way to get a good portion of India without having to deal with the AI in peace negotiations to gain provinces.
 
Last edited:

Enewald

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BIEC is gone, hurrays!
But now the Royal army comes. :(

Great AAR, worth reading says I!:D
 

Freddan

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Great AAR, I've always been thinking of playing as the Mughals but I've never really tried. I've gotta try now.

Anyway, I'll be following. I bet that you could really grow into a powerhouse if you managed to throw out the British from Asia. You should have an insane amount of PoP's. How big is your population now after the war?
 
Last edited:

unmerged(81390)

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I'm currently playing a Mughalistan game too, but in V.I.P:R :D
 

Rabid

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It'll be interesting to see where you're going to go from here, the first great step has been made and now you have a lot more choices as to where to focus your attentions, between conquest, industrialization, diplomacy and of course becoming a truly civilized nation!
 

General_Grant

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Thanks for all the repplies! :)

Sorry for the lack of update those days I was playing the new vesion of V.I.P. (like alot of you probably). Next update won't be very big, maybe consider it as a mini-update.

Enewald: Its not really gine in fact, its just pushed out of northern India.

Edzako: Indeed we must prepare- improving the economy to support more troops, conquer new lands for additional whealt, strategic position and manpower, and then build a profesional army...

Freddan: I don't remember the exact number, but I was #4 in population, after China, the UK, and Russia. There is indeed lot of potential, but without the appropriate technologies the pops are condemned to work into more or less profitable RGOs.

Ahura Mazda: Good luck then! Playing in V.I.P. is probably much harder since you ot a British India that won't focus on its vast oversea empire but will be a direct (and quite agressive) threat all around you.

Rabid: Thats one of the reason why I choosed to play as this country, there is like everything to do and the potential to achieve everything. I'll try to civilize first, but that will need alot of economical efforts and I'll have to keep a good military to prevent any further British advence into India.
 

General_Grant

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IV - Strengthening an Empire​



The weeks following the Imperial restauration were marked by the transfer of the capital of Mughalistan from Delhi to Agra. Wanting to make clear that a new era was begining in India, emperor Bahandur II Shah decided to create a new capital near the old city of Agra and the magnificient Taj Mahal, legacy of the great Shah Jahan. The new capital would be located on the site of the short-lived capital city of Fatehpur-Sikrî, and would only include a medium-sized palace and a quite modest mosque, as the government was short on money. The time was not right to spend fantastic sums of money over gigantic projects, but alot of room was reserved in Fatehpur for further projects wich included vast gardens and an huge expension to the palace.


On the exterior front, Bahandur Shah ordered the envoy of a large expedition of diplomats, scholars and selected members of the aristocracy. Travelling from the rowing port city of Karashi to the pirate-infested Red Sea, they would travel by land trough Egypt where they would sail from Alexandria to the lands of Europe. Diplomatic relations were being forged with the leaders of Egypt, wich allowed the use of some of their ships during the travel. Upon their arrival in France and Prussia, wich were the two main destinations of the Mughal expedition, they would learn about the Europeans and their ways of proceeding and would come back to India with vital informations later on.

But the Shah already knew parts of what would be included in their reports: the Europeans were technologically and economically superiors to India because of the 'industrial revolution' that was drastically changing the continent. Bahandur would not wait the return of the expedition before starting reforms: inspirated by the Europeans, and yet adabtated to Indian realities, he made plans for the establishment of several 'Imperial manufactories' everywhere trough the Empire. This system would benefit to everyone:
The state would build factories in the most populated cities, where alot of peoples are already without occupation, poor and unproductive. It would also purchase the cotton that was produced in too big quantities in some locations and would had otherwise been wasted. In the manufactories, the workers would turn the textile fibers into fabric, wich would be sold on the foreign market.
The peasents benefit from having their cotton purchased by the state;
The unemployed city inhabitants would benefit from having something constructive to do and from being paid for it;
The state would benefit from profit made from selling the fabric.

Special measures would be took so that fabric produced in the Imperial manufactories would not be sold in the Mughal Empire proper but on the foreign markets only, so local economy doesn't suffer from competition. On a similar basis, lumber mills would be build to turn the raw wood into valuable lumber that could be used in construction projects.



Localisation of the 'Imperial manufactories', property of the Emperor and of the state.​

Military expension was not to be left unconsiderated- using the Afghan claim on the city of Peshawar and the uninterrupted Afghan raids on the Panjabi borders, the Imperial army would be sended in the mountains of Afghanistan. Dost Mohammad, the leader of the country, was not in an position to oppose the Mughal takeover and finally recognised Bahandur Shah as his emperor after the fall of the city of Herat, making the Mughal monarch the undisputed leader of the whole country. The conquest of Afghanistan was important in the restauration of the Empire was Bâbur, the first Mughal, launched his conquest of Delhi from the city of Kabul. Afghanistan was a bit the place were it all started, and its conquest made Bahandur Shah even more legitimate in the eyes of his court.



Things were overall going fine for the Second Empire, as it was now sometime called. Money was entering into the coffers of the country at an interesting speed, thanks to an administration that was increasing in efficienty and to trade with Persia, the Arabian countries an even Russia. A balanced budget would allow new infrastructure projects and would allow the Empire to support an even larger army, to defend against Britain.

 
Last edited:

truth is life

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General_Grant said:
Ahura Mazda: Good luck then! Playing in V.I.P. is probably much harder since you ot a British India that won't focus on its vast oversea empire but will be a direct (and quite agressive) threat all around you.
OTOH, it's much easier to westernize without growing huge (in fact, growing huge makes it harder) By 1857 in my VIP 0.3 Punjab game, I was actually pretty close to full westernization. I suppose I should have held out on triggering the Mughulistan events until the 1860s or 1870s when I would have been done...

Also, industrialized India. :cool:

(Though I would recommend you up middle-class taxes and tariffs, and lower lower-class taxes, if you haven't done so already.)

EDIT: Is there any chance of you posting the modified event files for those of us who want to follow along, as it were? Or at least saying how to combine the VIP events into the normal files (I assume it's simply a matter of copying the events into an event file loaded normally)
 
Last edited:

General_Grant

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OTOH, it's much easier to westernize without growing huge (in fact, growing huge makes it harder) By 1857 in my VIP 0.3 Punjab game, I was actually pretty close to full westernization. I suppose I should have held out on triggering the Mughulistan events until the 1860s or 1870s when I would have been done...

Also, industrialized India. :cool:

(Though I would recommend you up middle-class taxes and tariffs, and lower lower-class taxes, if you haven't done so already.)

EDIT: Is there any chance of you posting the modified event files for those of us who want to follow along, as it were? Or at least saying how to combine the VIP events into the normal files (I assume it's simply a matter of copying the events into an event file loaded normally)
Considering how tiny is the Indian middle class by now, making their taxes higher won't make me really more rich so I leave them alone... besides, the millions of poors, its quite sad to say, but they make me survive.

The events I use (combination of VIP events, Vanilla events & some customisation)...

Forgive me if they make the game looking like more easy than it should be. Its just to have a good start, and the massive troops & techs giving were directly from the VIP event.

Code:
event = { 
	id = 14913
	random = no
	country = PAN
	picture = MUG_mughal
	
	trigger = {
		NOT = { exists = MUG }
		#Delhi
		control = { province = 1503 }
		#Unified Free States
		owned = { province = 1912 } # Sind
		control  = { province = 1912 } # Sind
		owned = { province = 1463 } # Panjab
		control = { province = 1463 } # Panjab
		#British Controlled States
		control = { province = 1498 } # Rajputana
		control = { province = 1488 } # Kashmir
	}

	name = "EVT_8800_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_8800_DESC"
	style = 0
	
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1836 }
	offset = 17
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1920 }
	
	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME8800A" # Create National State!
		command = { type = country which = MUG }
		command = { type = prestige value = 100 }
		command = { type = treasury value = 5000 }
		command = { type = flagname which = "monarch" }
		command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
		command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
		command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
		command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
		command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
		command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
		command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
		command = { type = add_division which = infantry }
		command = { type = add_division which = cavalry }
		command = { type = add_division which = cavalry }
		command = { type = add_division which = cavalry }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 1001 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 1101 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 1201 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 1301 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 1401 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 2001 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 2101 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 2201 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 2301 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 2401 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 3001 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 3101 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 3201 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 3301 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 3401 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 4001 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 4101 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 4201 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 4301 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 4401 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 5001 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 5101 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 5201 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 5301 }
		command = { type = gain_tech which = 5401 }
	}
}

event = { 
	id = 14914
	random = no
	country = MUG

	trigger = {
		exists = MUG
	}

	name = "The Second Empire" 
	desc = "As the armies of Panjab marched over the old Imperial capital of Delhi the Mughal emperor was restaurated." # 
	style = 0
	picture = MUG_mughal

	date = { day = 1 month = february year = 1836 }
	offset = 4
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1920 } 

	action_a = {
        	name = "Hurray for India!"
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = 100 value = -2 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = 100 value = -2 }

		command = { type = receiveprovince which = 1497 } #Delhi, Agra & region
		command = { type = receiveprovince which = 1503 }
		command = { type = receiveprovince which = 1502 }
		command = { type = receiveprovince which = 1500 }


		command = { type = add_countryculture  which = Rajput }
		command = { type = add_countryculture  which = Avadhi }
		command = { type = add_countryculture  which = Kanauji }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = bengali }

		command = { type = addcore which = 1918 } #Holkar-Sindhia
		command = { type = addcore which = 1919 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1920 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1482 } #Sind
		command = { type = addcore which = 1912 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1904 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1469 } #Kalat
		command = { type = addcore which = 1464 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1468 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1485 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1481 } #Panjab
		command = { type = addcore which = 1480 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1479 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1463 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1489 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1495 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1478 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1488 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1490 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1498 } #Rajputan
		command = { type = addcore which = 1483 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1909 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1484 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1917 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1462 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1897 } #Berodha
		command = { type = addcore which = 1908 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1906 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1905 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1501 } #Awadh
		command = { type = addcore which = 1940 } #Bastar
		command = { type = addcore which = 1932 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1931 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1937 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1929 } #Nagpur
		command = { type = addcore which = 1939 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1930 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1907 } #British India
		command = { type = addcore which = 1499 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1497 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1496 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1503 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1502 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1500 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1921 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1922 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1923 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1910 } 
		command = { type = addcore which = 1936 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1935 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1505 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1506 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1934 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1487 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1938 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1990 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1913 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1968 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1967 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1928 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1933 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1941 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1477 } #Afghanistan
		command = { type = addcore which = 1476 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1486 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1475 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1470 }	
		command = { type = addcore which = 1467 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1466 }


	}
}		

event = { 
	id = 14915
	random = no
	country = MUG
	picture = MUG_mughal
	
	trigger = {
		NOT = { war = { country = MUG country = ENG } }
		owned = { province = 1503 }
		owned = { province = 1502 }
	}

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1836 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1920 }

	name = "The Imperial Capital"
	desc = "In the months following the restauration of the Mughal Empire the government was debating over wich city should become the national capital."
	style = 0
	
	action_a = {
		name = "Delhi, capital of Shah Jahan"
		command = { type = capital which = 1503 }
		command = { type = prestige value = 80 } 
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Agra, capital of Akhbar"
		command = { type = capital which = 1502 }
		command = { type = prestige value = 80 } 
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "Stay in our traditional capital"
		command = { } 
	}
}
And welcome in Viden! :)
 

truth is life

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General_Grant said:
Considering how tiny is the Indian middle class by now, making their taxes higher won't make me really more rich so I leave them alone... besides, the millions of poors, its quite sad to say, but they make me survive.
Maxing your tariffs will probably make you more money than taxing the poor will, and will lower MIL and RR too, if you lower taxes.

Still: In VIP it's outrageously hard to form MUG. I had to cheat MASSIVELY to get all the provinces required, and the event STILL won't fire for some reason.
 
Last edited:

Capt. Kiwi

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A nice update. The beginning of industrialisation was a good move, and I like how you showed it's universal benefits - might I also add that the increased value of your trade helps your merchants, ship builders and infrastructure, and gives more contact with the outside world to let you learn more off them? The diplomacy with Europe is another good move - you could do with some great power friends when the UK comes a callin' again, as they no doubt will. Yet again, I like the development of your new capital - enough to show your splendour and earn respect, without bankrupting you. And invading Afghanistan builds up your strength and wealth, while giving a common target for your many different new cultures to unite against, so that they're not fighting you - another smart move.

Overall, excellent. I look forward to your next update :)
 

unmerged(9310)

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Woaaaah, I never knew one could recreate the Mughal Empire. Just awesome dude.
 

TonyJoe

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Great job, I'm very impressed. It'll be interesting to see how the next war with the British goes.
 

Enewald

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Factories, what be those hugish monster destroying the landscape! :p
How's your BB atm?
 

unmerged(81390)

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I actually cheated too, I don't know what truth is life means with "massivly", but anyways I cheated to get myself resources to train a respectable army! :eek:o

Another problem with V.I.P is that my fabric factories aren't profitable since I have to import chemicals! :mad:
Instead, I'm focusing mostly on lumber until I civilize and my factory effiency increases
 

Lord_D

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Interesting AAR :)

I really do hope you won't get smashed by the Evil British Empire in all it's evilness I heard it can attain in this game ;)
 

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Ahura Mazda said:
I actually cheated too, I don't know what truth is life means with "massivly", but anyways I cheated to get myself resources to train a respectable army!
Oh, first I exploited the Xinjiang/China connection to get war reparations from the Chinese for a while (allowing me to convert ~60% of my population to clergymen), then I nevilled a war reparations treaty with British India after they attacked me before I was "ready", then I went all out with manpower (a LOT during the war, since of course I had terrible native troops which had a hard time winning unless the odds were 5-1 in their favor, leading to high losses in battle and high attrition), leadership, and (particularly) loading up as British India twice to delete their entire army and build queue. I also nevilled a few peaces with British India at that point to get territory, but in my defense this was because when the UK annexes British India once you occupy too much of them, you get only a few random territories. I suppose I should have built a bigger army early on (converted more POPs to soldier instead of clergyman).
 

General_Grant

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Yay lot of updates! I really appreciate all the feedback, thanks for taking the time to post your comments here. :)

truth is life: Thats why I decided to adabt ome V.I.P. events to vanilla instead of playing it on V.I.P. directly. British India is a military superpower and the requirement for being civilized are very hights.

Capt. Kiwi: Great to see that at least one person is fully reading everything that I read and not only look at the pictures. :) You seems to have perfectly understood my approach and the reasons behind my moves.

jeffg006: yes, one can. :) India is very often neglected in Victoria as being part of the British sphere of influence from the very begining, but I'll try to change that by completing this AAR. reat to have you in. :)

TonyJoe: Next war is not for next update, but is certainly inevitable on the long term.

Enewald: India is huge, we can support them. BB was near 9 if I remember well.

Ahura Mazda: V.I.P. can indeed become quite frustrating when it comes to economy. When you are a great power its wonderfull, but as a minor or semi-minor it requires lot of efforts. In vanilla to produce fabric I just need cotton and a bit of wool, two things that I produce in masses so I don't need any import.

Lord_D: Let's hope so. For the moment I have more divisions than the British, and I can perfectly avoid any naval engagement, so it doesn't looks to bad. And without India, I doubt the British Empire will have the same potential on the long term.