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HonorKnight

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Feb 22, 2018
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Let's set aside the "stock" 'Mechs, since most everything about them can be changed in the MechLab, and instead consider how to optimize a DFA machine based on the core rules that apply to them by tonnage:

1: Damage per Ton varies (note that this is done via 2 attacks at half this damage, so both may hit or only one may hit for half damage)...
XqVUCK2.png


2: The number of DFAs you can execute without killing yourself varies...
OYP6DkD.png


3: The number of jump jets you can have, the cost of jump jets, and your initiative all vary...
jRv9iXd.png


Some takeaways:

For maximum damage in a single attack, that is of course at 100 tons. But that doesn't make them the best all-around option for DFAs.

If you care about maximizing damage relative to the tonnage of your 'Mech, 30, 50, 70, and 90 tons each have a spike of damage relative to their tonnage, gaining twice as much damage from the last 5 tons than any other increment of 5 tons.

If you care about minimizing damage to your own 'Mech while doing a DFA, 25, 45, 65, and 85 tons are low points in self-damage. Additionally, 40 tons is a sweet spot for doing multiple DFAs while only damaging your own armor and not internals. Note, however, that DFA self-damage is tied to DFA damage to the target, so this strategy is best used in tandem with a 'Mech having as many support weapons as possible to maximize the difference between damage dealt and damage recieved.

If you care about your leg armor and structure, note that most 5 ton weight increases come with 5 points of leg structure and 10 points of leg armor, but 70 tons doesn't add any structure or armor over 65 tons, so everything from 70 tons onward is slightly lower armor than the pattern would otherwise have produced. Additionally, 20 tons 'Mechs have terrible leg armor and structure.

If you care about tonnage, 80 and 85 tons have an unusual niche in that they are assault 'Mechs that only need Heavy jump jets, thus saving on tonnage spent.

If you care about maximizing how far your DFA 'Mech can jump, 40, 60, and 85 tons are the heaviest 'Mechs that can have 8, 5, and 4 jump jets respectively.

If you care about stability, a 30 ton 'Mech will deal up to 80 stability damage, enough to make any pilot unstable. 40 tons will deal up to 100 stability damage (the full stability bar). 65 tons will deal 80 stability damage, enough to make any pilot unstable, even if only half of the damage hits. 80 tons will deal 100 stability damage (a full bar) even if only half of the damage hits.

If you want a chance at one-hit-kills, 'Mechs 50 tons and up will get 2 chances to do 65 damage, which is enough to headcap the target if they hit the head.

As I see it, the big unknown that impacts what 'Mechs are realy best for DFA is how many support hardpoints will be available in each chassis after the hardpoint inflation is finished. That will be a huge factor in deciding which 'Mech(s) to use for DFA

So given all we know so far, what tonnages are the "sweet spot" for DFA, do you think?
 
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Isn't it the 55-ton level and above that imparts 100% Instability, meaning that the next Instability-imparting hit will lead to the Target being knocked down?
 
Isn't it the 55-ton level and above that imparts 100% Instability, meaning that the next Instability-imparting hit will lead to the Target being knocked down?
It actually takes significantly lower weight than that. DFA damage = DFA stability damage, so a 40 ton 'Mech will do 100 stability damage (assuming 2 hits). There were no 40 ton 'Mechs in the beta, but you can demonstrate this with a 45 ton Vindicator. Additionally, an 80 ton 'Mech would do a total of 200 stability damage, so even if one of the 2 attacks misses it would still do the max 100 stability damage.
 
Possibly dumb question, but did you control for individual mech quirks that increase/decrease their melee damage (and accordingly their DFA damage)?
 
Possibly dumb question, but did you control for individual mech quirks that increase/decrease their melee damage (and accordingly their DFA damage)?
We won't have Mech "Quirks" but HBS has adjusted Melee Damage per Mech Type, as far as I know, making no distinction by Mech Variant.

In the future and "in Success" of BATTLETECH sales, Mech Quirks may be something HBS can follow-up on. : )
 
Just a heads up, not all mechs do tonnage damage on a DFA. They do x2 their melee attack. The ShadowHawk does 85 damage on a melee attack, so with a DFA makes two seperate attacks using the pilots piloting skill, each for 85 damage.
 
Just a heads up, not all mechs do tonnage damage on a DFA. They do x2 their melee attack. The ShadowHawk does 85 damage on a melee attack, so with a DFA makes two seperate attacks using the pilots piloting skill, each for 85 damage.

I can see why you might think that, but actually 'Mechs that do more melee damage than their counterparts in the same weight class do not also have more DFA damage. DFA damage is consistent across all 'Mechs of the same weight.

For example:

55-ton Griffin Melee: 70

ULiUNCb.png


55-ton ShadowHawk Melee: 85 (15 higher than other 'Mechs of the same weight)
xCT3epP.png


55-ton Griffin DFA: 70x2
W1G7C6e.png


55-ton ShadowHawk DFA: 70x2 (not 85x2)
dmFCNcw.png
 
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Just a heads up, not all mechs do tonnage damage on a DFA. They do x2 their melee attack. The ShadowHawk does 85 damage on a melee attack, so with a DFA makes two seperate attacks using the pilots piloting skill, each for 85 damage.
Which is extremely important with purpose built DFA pilots and strategy. The Shadowhawk if there are also support hardpoints would be intriguing to say the least.
 
What is the max armor plus structure for the head have in HBS land? I seem to recall it was more than 60.

I’d say that one important metric for DFA is two shots that would one hit kill a mech if they hit the head.
 
Added the stability and one-hit-kill considerations to the original post. .

So far this is what I'm seeing:

FUHG3th.png


So 50-55 are looking like strong candidates, having the benefits of initiative and range, with minimal detriments. Perhaps not a coincidence that Wofen always said the 55-ton Griffin was the best in the beta for DFAs, and Prussian Havoc had a vague notion that 55 tons was the ideal.

65 tons also looks promising (if a little slower). In particular, the 65-ton Thunderbolt TDR-5S is guaranteed to have 2 support hardpoints for bonus damage during DFA. The 55-ton Wolverine WVR-6K and several 50-ton 'Mechs also have 1 support hardpoint minimum. We'll see where all the inflated hardpoints end up, of course.
 
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If a DFA misses both attacks, does it fall down?

Nothing is any different on the attacker if you hit once, twice, or not at all. You take the self damage regardless, and you also take the normal self-stability damage - a fixed 60 points - regardless (unless you have AoD to remove the self-stability penalty).

Also, I assume you can not jump next to a target mech and do a normal melee attack?

Correct.
 
Nothing is any different on the attacker if you hit once, twice, or not at all. You take the self damage regardless, and you also take the normal self-stability damage - a fixed 60 points - regardless (unless you have AoD to remove the self-stability penalty).

One bug I hope they fixed is that if the attacker loses one or both legs in the DFA attack, the defender will fall over regardless of the knockdown rules and stability level.