OPM has 61% warscore vs. Ottomans, but won't even white peace

[Methuen of Melnibone]

Situation - and I'm hoping someone with a more indepth knowledge of the mechanics can help here.

1. Serbia has been reduced to OPM status along the Austrian border.
2. Serbia are part of the Empire
3. Ottomans attack Serbia for the last provice
4. Me (the Austrians) steps in as Emperor
5. A 20 year slog ensues in which bottomless Ottoman manpower fights decent Austrian soldiers.
6. Quite a boring war.
7. Eventually, we get the Serbians up to 61% warscore vs the AI.
8. This state of affairs lasts for a good five years.
9. Battles are fought, sieges won & lost, but the warscore hovers at 61%
10. My manpower is running out, but the AI won't peace out ?!
11. I checked my optiosn for a seperate peace - piles of gold, or a couple of provinces, the works.
12. The AI could definitely get at least a white peace ?

My question is - is there some hidden set of stats I need to dig into to work out why the AI wouldn't white peace ? We couldn't get better than 61-61%, we held Constantinople and all of Greece / Balkans. Ottomans had bottomless manpower, so invading Anatolia was out. It was basically a stalemate.

(My solution was quite gamey - I took gold & war reps from the Ottomans, then declared on Serbia myself to prevent the Ottomans taking the province)

 

[ancapailldorcha]

Have you hovered over the indicator that shows whether or not the AI will take the deal? The tooltip should show what your problem is.

 

[PrussicAcid]

You raise a fairly common problem. Small nations that resists or even win despite their great inferiority should peace out shortly as they can, without waiting the warscore to reach 99%.

 

[Methuen of Melnibone]

Have you hovered over the indicator that shows whether or not the AI will take the deal? The tooltip should show what your problem is.

I'm talking about the AI peacing out vs. the AI (maybe that wasn't clear) - not sure there's a way I can check that ?

You raise a fairly common problem. Small nations that resists or even win despite their great inferiority should peace out shortly as they can, without waiting the warscore to reach 99%.

Glad someone else has seen it, thought I was going mad !

Yeah it's a little annoying - especially as sometimes the AI will be completely rational and stop a war at 20% !

 

[grotaclas]

Does Serbia have all the occupations of provinces which they marked as of interest? Maybe they want to take a province which you currently occupy and thus can't end the war.

 

[Vetgirig]

The AI sees the war as winning and want to maximize winnings from the war.

That's what a player would do. So why should not an AI do the same ?

In this case I assume that Serbia is looking into taking back all its cores and also give you some province for the help.

 

[ancapailldorcha]

I'm talking about the AI peacing out vs. the AI (maybe that wasn't clear) - not sure there's a way I can check that ?

Ah. If you're not on Ironman, you could tag switch? If you are then you're just going to have to wait. AI is just doing AI things.

 

[Methuen of Melnibone]

Does Serbia have all the occupations of provinces which they marked as of interest? Maybe they want to take a province which you currently occupy and thus can't end the war.

Great shout. I'll check that out.

Ah. If you're not on Ironman, you could tag switch? If you are then you're just going to have to wait. AI is just doing AI things.

I'm one of these always-ironman masochists haha, fair tip though !

 

[st360]

You raise a fairly common problem. Small nations that resists or even win despite their great inferiority should peace out shortly as they can, without waiting the warscore to reach 99%.

Unless you're the player, in which case its totally ok for Albania or Byzantium to screw and milk their great power allies for every drop of blood when fighting the Ottomans, right?

 

[Kapi96]

This is the kind of situation that show there needs to be a way to encourage your allies to peace out. Pretty annoying that they'll get pissed at you for peacing out separately, but will drag the war on for ages if you don't. Should just be able to say "yo, we've done about as much as we can, let's end it" or something to them.

 

[Nikoleis]

Imagine this, a world where peace deals are decided by every participants in order of participation, when the majority of those participated votes to end this war. And then, people take turns making demand up to Warscore x Participation, with more rounds until all Warscore is distributed / no one wants anything else

One day, maybe...

 

[bokorthedust]

Imagine this, a world where peace deals are decided by every participants in order of participation, when the majority of those participated votes to end this war. And then, people take turns making demand up to Warscore x Participation, with more rounds until all Warscore is distributed / no one wants anything else

One day, maybe...

Imagine the player exploiting this just because he won a battle at the beginning of the war his stupid AI ally declared and his participation rocketed to 90% .

 

[Nikoleis]

Imagine the player exploiting this just because he won a battle at the beginning of the war his stupid AI ally declared and his participation rocketed to 90% .

90% participation of at most 5% warscore and likely closer to 0.5 to 1% won't get you far. Yes it could likely be exploited, but compared to solving most of "Angry because gained nothing from this peace deal even when I wanted nothing", "I want 99% warscore even if I do nothing" and "Just peace out already!"? And with the fact people don't want even a white peace before Length of war goes down, you can't do an early peace deal either regardless

 

[Terixis]

The AI never peaces out without cry for peace before 99% in my experience, even if they're at +50% and are about to get steamrolled by the 500k Ottoman troops who just walked over from Siberia.

 

[bokorthedust]

90% participation of at most 5% warscore and likely closer to 0.5 to 1% won't get you far. Yes it could likely be exploited, but compared to solving most of "Angry because gained nothing from this peace deal even when I wanted nothing", "I want 99% warscore even if I do nothing" and "Just peace out already!"? And with the fact people don't want even a white peace before Length of war goes down, you can't do an early peace deal either regardless

Well, you didn't say how the war would end, just that by this system the majority participants vote to end a war. Unless you put further constraints in, I with my 90% force my ally to end the war. Under the current peace mechanics that can only happen by forcing him to offer a 100% deal to the enemy, possibly giving away his own country, because I as a secondary participant with this country unsieged can't be touched with the exception of a few remote cases.

 

[PDXJon]

The AI never peaces out without cry for peace before 99% in my experience, even if they're at +50% and are about to get steamrolled by the 500k Ottoman troops who just walked over from Siberia.

Cry for peace? I think the developers should change “call for peace” to
“cry for peace.” It’s so much better

 

[Nikoleis]

Well, you didn't say how the war would end, just that by this system the majority participants vote to end a war. Unless you put further constraints in, I with my 90% force my ally to end the war. Under the current peace mechanics that can only happen by forcing him to offer a 100% deal to the enemy, possibly giving away his own country, because I as a secondary participant with this country unsieged can't be touched with the exception of a few remote cases.

Ah yes, making concessions... that's something I hate even in current system, there should be instead an "Accept defeat" peace deal when on the losing side, so the winner is always the one deciding what to take

And probably a "doesn't actually participate in alliance" reason for others to kick someone standing at 0% participation for several years, with prestige hit the same as not honoring said alliance, or at least damage to Trust (being sieged IS participating)

 

[iClipse]

Yeah, a "I'm about the peace out, so make your peacedeal." kind of interaction would be really helpful.

I've seen nations with 50% warscore in their favor lose out because their allies start peacing out and they refuse to do so. 'Making gains' modifier probably plays into this. But still.

 

[Blackmoore]

I'm not 100% sure I understand from the OP which AI refuses to bail out on the War -- Serbia or the Ottomans.

Assuming that its the Ottomans:

Usually, when I can't get the AI to peace out even when I have a very high warscore it's because I forgot and failed to take a fort that controls land that I want in the peace deal.

Since this example is about Serbia take the following scenario: There's a fort in Zeta and you want Kosovo (everyone wants, or should want Kosovo). If you haven't capture the fort in Zeta you won't be able to peace out for Kosovo even with 90% warscore as you'll have a neg 1000 malus to the peace deal. Fortunately, the explanation for the red X on the peace deal will point this out to you.

Assuming that the Serbians won't peace out:

Here, it is because Austria probably occupies the Serbian "Vital Interest" provinces (colored in Red in the Diplomatic Interest Map mode).

Others:

Sometimes when there is an ongoing battle, whether at sea or on land, there's enough of a malus from that (regardless of who is winning or will likely to win) to keep the AI from granting peace when the peace deal is very close to the War Score. This malus is something like neg 25, so just adjust your peace deal. In a big war it can be weird because there can be battles going on over and over again throughout the map and its tough to settle things down.

Finally, there can be weird situations where the AI believes that the War is going in the AI's favor, despite the reality of the Warscore and the likelihood of the war turning around. The explanation will say something like "Ottomans are making gains" or something like that. Here, there is not much you can do but keep winning. This can be tough against the Ottomans because often (as Austria for example) it's not the easiest thing to clear out Anatolia as much of it is hard to get to, many seiges away even if you can cross the straight.

 

[swagmeister]

This is always miserable. The AI wants the player to defeat the unbeatable armies to fully win the war, but the issue is that your first few wars against the ottos if you have a remote chance of winning against their doomstacks they will force you to chase them all around the black sea to the background of the Benny Hill theme. What makes it worse is that you can't ignore their armies either like other tags becuase their siege ability is ridiculous tearing through forts like a joke.