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knul

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Up until recently I pretty much ignored most minister posts, but I´ve been playing around with ministers a bit and I would like to hear what other´s opinions and experiences are on this.

Here are the stats for Chief of Staffs, from the wiki:

School of Manoeuvre
* Land Unit speed +10%

School of Fire Support

* Armor & Artillery research +5%
* Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%
* Self-propelled Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%
* Rocket Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%
* Self-propelled Rocket Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%

School of Mass Combat
* Manpower growth +25%
* Infantry construction bonus -5%

School of Psychology
* Organisation regain +20%

School of Defence
* Defensive combat modifier +10%

I think the Mass Combat school is by far the best. A huge manpower bonus is always usefull, for almost any country except maybe the USSR and China. Manoeuvre is second I think. Extra speed is very nice, but it is IMO not enough to trade for a lot more manpower. If no Chief from the Mass Combat School is avaiable, I would take one from the School of Manoeuvre. Fire support is almost completely useless. The rest of the schools are solid but nothing special.


Here are the different Chiefs or Army:

Elastic Defence Doctrine
* Self-propelled Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%
* Self-propelled Rocket Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%
* Motorised construction bonus -5%
* Mechanised construction bonus -5%
* Self-propelled Artillery brigade defensive combat modifier +5%
* Self-propelled Rocket Artillery brigade defensive combat modifier +5%
* Motorised defensive combat modifier +5%
* Mechanised defensive combat modifier +5%

Static Defence Doctrine
* Land Fort construction bonus -10%
* Infantry construction bonus -5%
* Antitank brigade construction bonus -5%
* Infantry defensive combat modifier +5%
* Antitank brigade defensive combat modifier +5%

Decisive Battle Doctrine
* Infantry construction bonus -5%
* Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%
* Rocket Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%
* Antitank brigade construction bonus -5%
* Infantry offensive combat modifier +5%
* Artillery brigade offensive combat modifier +5%
* Rocket Artillery brigade offensive combat modifier +5%
* Antitank brigade offensive combat modifier +5%

Armoured Spearhead Doctrine
* Armor construction bonus -5%
* Mechanized construction bonus -5%
* Self-propelled Antitank brigade construction bonus -5%
* Self-propelled Artillery brigade construction bonus -5%
* Self-propelled Rocket Artillery construction bonus -5%
* Armor offensive combat modifier +5%
* Mechanized offensive combat modifier +5%
* Self-propelled Antitank brigade offensive combat modifier +5%
* Self-propelled Artillery brigade offensive combat modifier +5%
* Self-propelled Rocket Artillery offensive combat modifier +5%

Guns and Butter Doctrine
* Supply consumption -15%

The problem with these is that from what I´ve seen the brigade bonuses do not work. For instance, with the Spearhead doctrine an Armor division with SPArt will get only 5% on attack, not 10%.

This makes the Guns and Butter doctrine the best of the lot. I do not consider the construction bonuses to be very worthwile, so the other doctrines will only give a 5% combat bonus to certain kinds of units under certain kinds of conditions. A reduction on supply works for all units all the time. Even if the brigade bonuses would work, Guns and Butter would still be better, as it is more widely used.


Any thoughts on this?
 

unmerged(3221)

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Playing Germany I prefer to use the Org regain minister rather than the speed minister. I've tried both but I play better with the Org regain minister. For Chief of the Army, I use the Decisive Battle minister while I build up and upgrade my Infantry divisions and then switch to Guns and Butter minister just before starting Barbarossa.

Different countries can also benefit from different ministers, and sometimes you can't always choose which minister: it's not simply an abstract question. What country you are playing, which difficulty level, and what strategies you are using also factor into these minister decisions.
 
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Org regain is a BIG plus, so I like that CoS. For manpower-poor nations (UK comes to mind), the +25% manpower growth is a good option.

Guns and butter lets you spend more IC days on the fun stuff.
 

unmerged(94346)

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It depends on which nation you play as in choosing which minister. The only minister I would try to have for every nation I play is the 10% IC armaments minister.
 
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It depends. But School of Psych, School of Mas Combat, and Guns and Butter are the best. Contrary to what you said, I actually think School of Mass Combat is better for bigger countries (such as the USSR). They already get huge mapower reserves so +25% more is a lot more bang for the buck (and it's very easy to get to 0 manpower). However, the +20% org is really good and I'd probably use that in the middle of a war unless I was really hurting for some extra MP.

Heinz : Is Germany the only country with the +10% IC minister (Schacht?) I haven't found it on any other (granted I play a lot of mods but still, they all have Schacht).
 

son of liberty

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Tarsus540 said:
It depends. But School of Psych, School of Mas Combat, and Guns and Butter are the best. Contrary to what you said, I actually think School of Mass Combat is better for bigger countries (such as the USSR). They already get huge mapower reserves so +25% more is a lot more bang for the buck (and it's very easy to get to 0 manpower). However, the +20% org is really good and I'd probably use that in the middle of a war unless I was really hurting for some extra MP.

Heinz : Is Germany the only country with the +10% IC minister (Schacht?) I haven't found it on any other (granted I play a lot of mods but still, they all have Schacht).
Most nations have one. For example the USA has Henry Ford(paternal autocrat), and Kaiser(market liberal iirc) though kaiser is not available until 43 iirc, and ford in 40.
 

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Static Defence is my favorite simply because of that 10 percent infantry bonus; and Manpower Minister to Org Minister during the peace > war transition.

I always stockpile supplies anyway come war time; guns and butter may be nice during peace but during war shouldnt you be oversupplying yourself so you can have your units go on Offensive Supply?
 

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if not at war I go for manpower bonus

if at war and I'm in a hurry I go for speed bonus (like barbarossa or something)

if at war I generally go for org regain bonus (I usually end up here) unless I really need the manpower

as for the other minister office I think there is idd no discussion: guns and butter
 

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I always get the Mass Combat minister when they are available. Unfortunately, more often than not they arent.

I like the Bread and Butter minister and usually get them but if I have too much IC (yes, I said it) I get the Decisive Battle minister. I build lots and lots of Inf-Art with almost every nation, the notable exceptions being NatChi and the USSR.
 

knul

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Anou said:
Static Defence is my favorite simply because of that 10 percent infantry bonus; and Manpower Minister to Org Minister during the peace > war transition.
AFAIK you only get +5%, even with Inf+Art.

Anou said:
I always stockpile supplies anyway come war time; guns and butter may be nice during peace but during war shouldnt you be oversupplying yourself so you can have your units go on Offensive Supply?
The Guns and Butter doctrine is not so much usefull for saving supplies but rather for lowering TC load. If the doctrine would just give a TC reduction I would be almost equally happy with it.

Tarsus540 said:
It depends. But School of Psych, School of Mas Combat, and Guns and Butter are the best. Contrary to what you said, I actually think School of Mass Combat is better for bigger countries (such as the USSR). They already get huge mapower reserves so +25% more is a lot more bang for the buck (and it's very easy to get to 0 manpower). However, the +20% org is really good and I'd probably use that in the middle of a war unless I was really hurting for some extra MP
My thought was that the big MP nations already have so many divisions that it would pay more to increase their quality than to increase their numbers. Not that I have much experience with the USSR, but wouldn´t you run into Over Command Limits in most theatres with Mass Combat?

It seems that the School of Psych is quite popular. May be I should try is some time.
 

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School of Psychology, Armoured Spearhead Doctorine. Or SoP, Decisive Battle for minors.
 

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Depend on stage of game, difficulty and country played, mass combat for early game and especially manpower poor country. Once most of land units needed are build the need for this minister diminishes. I prefer the plus speed minister when in sustained offensive operation, faster movement means less organization lost achieving the same goal also quicker and easier encirclement.

For chief of army I normally use guns and butter because it offers more general benefit. This minister also can save significant amount of IC plus improve your TC usage late game.
 
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Knul : Yes, maybe in Vanilla. But I know in most mods, MP is very precious and you can run out very quickly (especially as the USSR, cranking out hundreds of divisions). But, as I said, I use the MP pre-war and usually switch to Org Regain once I start the war.