interesting question indeed....
yet, there must be some surprises once the game is released, you know
(what happens to forces after annexation is of course part of the game design, and thus I´m not allowed to tell)
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interesting question indeed....
yet, there must be some surprises once the game is released, you know
(what happens to forces after annexation is of course part of the game design, and thus I´m not allowed to tell)
Historically fleets like the Francis did escape when Germany blitzed France, so I’m pretty sure that is what HOI would simulate with Poland in this example. Its just that you said you never encountered them when you blocked the Sund. So they must have escaped before you blocked. Maybe seeing that colossal fleet of yours had deterred them from attacking you, and instead they might have headed to England to get protection for a while, or even forming up with some of their fleets.Originally posted by Maximilian I
interesting question indeed....
yet, there must be some surprises once the game is released, you know
(what happens to forces after annexation is of course part of the game design, and thus I´m not allowed to tell)
Not at all, i was actually surprised that losses were very close to historical figures.
Unlikely that they escaped, as they would tag along a while to see if they could help, and so would be blocked.
Options would be (I guess):
A) Ran blockade successfully (by night or whatever).
B) Sunk by German Air, or by own crews
C) Interred in neutral country (Sweden or Baltic State most likely)
D) Captured in port and converted.
Historically iirc out of four polish cruisers one was sunk, two escaped to England (one after almost being captured by SU in a baltic state port) and on the fourth my book wasn't clear (iirc still) on it's fate.
Interesting. Maximilian I said he never made contact with the Polish fleet so a German air attack is out of the question. Its sure exiting if the Polish AI might have sunk their own ships in neutral or their own harbours if they though the situation was hopeless and they didn’t wanna let the Germans capture their ship intact. Option D is probably what might have happened as that would be logically if the fleet is just lying in port.
I personally expect that the Poles scuttled their ships if they were unable to run the blockade- or they interned themselves.
AFAIK, part of fleet escaped, part was sunk, part was scuttled. Also, part of it was sent to Britain before outbreak of war.
Not that Polish fleet was big
Re: Quick Question
I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I thought that in the early days of the war, the RAF sent their bombers unescourted to try and destory elements of the German Navy and sustained heavily casualties (maybe around 40-45 percent?). I cannot recall what year this occured but I think it may have been late '39 or even '40.
I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I thought that in the early days of the war, the RAF sent their bombers unescourted to try and destory elements of the German Navy and sustained heavily casualties (maybe around 40-45 percent?). I cannot recall what year this occured but I think it may have been late '39 or even '40.
Casualty counts
The AAR ended with 51,000 casualties.
Historical losses were:
German Losses Poland 1939 KIA/MIA: 13,110
German Losses Poland 1939 WIA: 27,280
The battle alogrithm thus produces about 20pct higher casualties than historically. Which is excellent and within what must be accepted in a simulation.
But it did produce them in the wrong order - more during pursuit than during intial assault. I think a littler tweaking is in order to represent the inability to make a routed force stand and fight.
The campaign was quicker than historically, ending on Sep.16 The day before the Soviets historically invaded Poland. Is there no event ofr the Stalin-Hitler Pact?
All in all. It whet my appetite even more.
When will HoI be released in Scandinavia?
The AAR ended with 51,000 casualties.
Historical losses were:
German Losses Poland 1939 KIA/MIA: 13,110
German Losses Poland 1939 WIA: 27,280
The battle alogrithm thus produces about 20pct higher casualties than historically. Which is excellent and within what must be accepted in a simulation.
But it did produce them in the wrong order - more during pursuit than during intial assault. I think a littler tweaking is in order to represent the inability to make a routed force stand and fight.
The campaign was quicker than historically, ending on Sep.16 The day before the Soviets historically invaded Poland. Is there no event ofr the Stalin-Hitler Pact?
All in all. It whet my appetite even more.
When will HoI be released in Scandinavia?
hmmm, concerning the battle casualities: the numbers inlcudes KiA/WiA/MiA. on the polish side I included the losses of units surrendering (the high losses of the polish is primarily of units surrendering). and of course it was no complete replay of the historical campaign, so differences in losses are acceptable, imho. a major error of mine was the first attack on Poznan, e.g..
It's within a statistically acceptable range. The Poznan attack is an illustration of the main point: That most casualties are incurred in the initial phases of a campaign.
I'm more worried about the fact that your losses increased as you advanced instead of decreasing, as they do pursuing a retreating enemy.
I'm more worried about the fact that your losses increased as you advanced instead of decreasing, as they do pursuing a retreating enemy.
well, there are not only the western armies in Poland. historically Poland tried to counterattack with armies from the east. also, central and eastern Poland is a much better defensive terrain than the west. the hardest part was crossing the Wisla and the Bug...
Then I think initial set-up should be changed to reflect the historical Polish dispositions.
Your remark about terrain (rivers in particular) already has me worrying that the game engine will not be able to simulate Blitzkrieg.
Anxiously awating further AARs.
Your remark about terrain (rivers in particular) already has me worrying that the game engine will not be able to simulate Blitzkrieg.
Anxiously awating further AARs.
just a small clarification on the disposition of the polish army:
8 Armies total, namely the
Pomorze Army,
Poznan Army
Lodz Army,
Krakow Army,
Modlin Army,
Prusy Army,
Wyszkow Army and Narew Army.
Only Pomorze, Poznan, Lodz and Krakow Army were historically in the area, what I call west. the rest of the polish armies should be enough to form another defensive line
and why do you think, that the blitz is not simulated. is 16 days not fast enough for you?
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Re: Casualty counts
German-KIA, WIA, MIA, 45'000.
Well, game numbers were 50/200, historical are 40-45/200(or 830, but well...)
for me, it's very close to historical outcome.
Polish KIA 70'000, WIA 130'000, (plus 620'000 POWs-240 by Russians)
German-KIA, WIA, MIA, 45'000.
Well, game numbers were 50/200, historical are 40-45/200(or 830, but well...)
for me, it's very close to historical outcome.
DarthMaur:
I think the battle alogrithm is excellent. I have no quarrel with the 20pct margin of error.
Maximilian:
If the AI thinks a defence in depth is the best defence for Poland then it's OK with me. It explains the structure of your losses.
As for blitzkrieg, it was not the tempo in Poland I was thinking of.
Two weeks was an excellent achevement. Perhaps, who knows, facilitated by the Polish defence in depth.
I just wonder how the terrain as such, rivers and forests will affect the campaign in France and Barbarossa. You pointed to the rivers and the terrain hampering operations in Eastern Poland.
The purpose of the beta testing is after all to tweak the program. I'm pointing to possible areas where tweaking may be in order.
I think the battle alogrithm is excellent. I have no quarrel with the 20pct margin of error.
Maximilian:
If the AI thinks a defence in depth is the best defence for Poland then it's OK with me. It explains the structure of your losses.
As for blitzkrieg, it was not the tempo in Poland I was thinking of.
Two weeks was an excellent achevement. Perhaps, who knows, facilitated by the Polish defence in depth.
I just wonder how the terrain as such, rivers and forests will affect the campaign in France and Barbarossa. You pointed to the rivers and the terrain hampering operations in Eastern Poland.
The purpose of the beta testing is after all to tweak the program. I'm pointing to possible areas where tweaking may be in order.
It's funny I'm very happy that the Blitzkrieg has been modeled so well. Also defence in depth would be a better defensive strategy against a blitz than a static line.
It will be interesting to find out how much of the WIA/MIA you get back after you win the campaign.
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