Operation Valkyrie: A Mini-Mod for Darkest Hour

[RedPhalanx]

That is a very interesting read. The main issue here is gameplay: If Germany reaches a separate peace with the USSR, what happens to Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and Slovakia? Historically, by the end of 1944, the Red Army controlled all of Romania, most of Hungary, most of Bulgaria, and were moving into Slovakia and Axis-occupied Yugoslavia. This is with the German military fighting the USSR. Now, take out the Germany military, which has signed a peace with the USSR. With all due respect to Hungary, Romania et. al. they could have not resisted a Soviet invasion in 1944, especially since the USSR could now pull divisions out of Poland and the Baltic to reinforce their attack. To make the mod easier for me, and reduce the possibility of game-breaking bugs, when Germany signs a peace with the USSR, the other Axis nations in Eastern Europe will surrender.

 

[unmerged(87183)]

I would expect Germany to give some political support to their allies, and negotiate a peace, rather then simply letting them surrender. I would expect Romania, Finland and possibly Hungary, to have some territorial losses, but other then that, probably some reparations and such. Take Bulgaria, the Soviet Union did not DOW Bulgaria until they were on their border, so if the event fires before that happens, Bulgaria would get off scott-free (in other words, without penalty). Croatia and Slovakia committed troops to the Eastern Front aswell.

It all really depends on when the event fires, and where the German player is holding the line at that time.

 

[HuKi]

Germany keeps the northern part of the Sudetenland, with part returning to the Czechs.

I think this is serious logic flaw. I can´t see it happening. Czechoslovak government in British exile could not accept ceding Sudety province, because it always was internal part of the Czech Crown Lands.

It would be also problem for Allies, because position of Great Britain a France (in case of ceding part of Sudety to Germany) would be little schizofrenic. By freeing Austria they would say that Hitler´s annexation 1938 was intolerable, but in case of Sudety the Munich agreement was OK.

 

[unmerged(189717)]

How about an Austrian referendum? The Austrians cheered the first they were unified with Germany, so I would expect them to either

1) choose to remain with Germany for their protection.
2) choose to become independent once more and remain neutral (more or less like they did during the Cold War).

 

[RedPhalanx]

Here is the MO/Framework/Overarching Focus for everyone's negotiating tactics, approach, and goals:

Germany: Germany can no longer fight a two-front war. Germany's main goal is to preserve its independence, and the majority of its territory. Unfortunately, this cannot include the Alsace-Lorraine and Danzig, because they were taken after September, 1939, or Austria. We may even need to allow the Allies to occupy parts of Germany for a short while to appease their needs, and the Soviets have been eying Konigsburg. It is better that we accept this than risk Germany being conquered completely. As for our allies in Eastern Europe, we can do nothing for them. Our focus must be on protecting Germany. Influence can be regained over time, but we must do what is necessary to keep our independence now and forever.

USSR: Our main goal is to protect ourselves against another German (or Western European) invasion. This includes expanding our territory to include (formerly) eastern Poland, Chust, etc, as well as expanding our influence throughout Eastern Europe, ensuring that pro-Moscow governments are formed in these nations. Germany must disarm, and keep neutral in political affairs.

Allies: Germany must be pushed back to its pre-war borders. They must ban the Nazi's from the government, and hold open elections. We cannot be too hard on them, lest we risk the rise of another Hitler, but France will want (and deserves) reparations for their occupation. We also need a base for US troops in Germany (partially to keep them honest, partially to show a strong front to the Soviets). Austria must be liberated, as a free and independent nation. Hopefully, the post-Hitler Germany can be an important bulwark to Communism. Germany must disarm and abandon force as a means of diplomacy.

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what my focuses are for a post-war Europe.

 

[RedPhalanx]

Something I've been meaning to post about, is the fate of Hitler's brain. If Germany is unlucky, Himmler will flee to Argentina with it. This won't be a problem for a few years, until around 1953 when the growth-accelerated Hitler clones reach maturity. Alternatively, the Nazi super-scientists may install the brain in a robotic exoskeleton. In that case, you'll end up in a war against Mecha-Hitler. Just one of the ways to keep the late game interesting.

 

[MartinBG]

:rofl:

 

[unmerged(269727)]

eastern border= 1914 + the polish border stripe.

how about the baltics? back to SU, or independent, United Baltic Duchy (i like that, but then a United Baltic Republic). Ukraine, has to be independent. I assume that Germany wil became a republic, but i think under black-white-red banner, wich was prefered by Strauffenberg.

here is a map on what i think: warning, big map.
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2787/metip.jpg
mostely in favor of Germany, wich still had much of SU and Northern Africa. i dont know about Czechslovakia, but both independent is more logical.

I think this map is good, and realistic if the allies join germany, and kick the hell out of SU. Only one thing, why gets Czechoslovakia subcarpathia back? it was mostly populated with Hungarians and Ruthenes, only a few slovaks. it could go to Ukraine, but its too far away if Poland keeps eastern galicia, so I think it would most likely remain with Hungary.

 

[RedPhalanx]

I think I've come to a decision on Germany's peace negotiations. The main contention regarding the entire process is mostly on whether Germany should take a Defensive posture (i.e. forgoing any gains in the east and abandoning Eastern Europe o the Soviets), or an Offensive posture (attempting to strip the Ukraine, Belorussia, and the Baltics from the USSR). It seems like the best solution would be to offer both: when Germany heads into each round negotiations, they must decided what posture to adopt. Of course, the USSR is far less likely to accept losses than they are gains.

 

[RedPhalanx]

Well, the minister files are different in DH "Core" vs DH "Full". This is going to be fun.

 

[Fernando Torres]

DH Full is the version we are working on (most up-to-date).
Core is just here to allow quick conversion for HOI2 mods.

 

[RedPhalanx]

with "Light" being the most barebones version of DH. So basically I should base everything off the "Full" version.

 

[Fernando Torres]

As you are building a mod from scratch, yes.

 

[CthulhuPL]

If I may add something to 'post-war Poland' discussion: I think Polish government in exile would put huge pressure on Allies to atleast still claim Lwów and Tesin. Sounds reasonable after loosing huge eastern part of country including historically important Wilno. Don't forget that after all, this Valkyria scenario is more plausible for Poland than real life scenario.

 

[softsponge]

Fascinating, just the mod I've been looking for.

 

[PanzerMan7]

couldnt germany simply negotiate with the allies and fight the soviets on equal terms?

 

[RedPhalanx]

Just want to let people know that progress is being made on this mod. The first ALPHA (barebones and full of bugs) release is planned for this Saturday (approx 48 hours).

couldnt germany simply negotiate with the allies and fight the soviets on equal terms?

Yes. A german player could reach peace with the Allies but keep on fighting the USSR. Alternatively, the Allies can reach peace with Germany, then issue an ultimatum to the USSR to "get back to your 1938 borders or else", a la Patton.

 

[Nietzsche]

If I may add something to 'post-war Poland' discussion: I think Polish government in exile would put huge pressure on Allies to atleast still claim Lwów and Tesin. Sounds reasonable after loosing huge eastern part of country including historically important Wilno. Don't forget that after all, this Valkyria scenario is more plausible for Poland than real life scenario.

To be fair, I don't see how, if Germany is in a position of relative strength, why it would let Poland take the heavily-German areas of East Prussia. Some border-adjustments in regards to Silesia, West Prussia and Posen, no doubt, but East Prussia won't take Polish rule too kindly. Poland only got the portion they did in our world because the vast majority of Germans in the area either fled or were forced out by the Soviets or Polish.

 

[PanzerMan7]

i just dont understand how a peace could work. poland being free would be essential but also impossible because the germans needed to go through it to get to russia and vice versa

also, if stalin saw the dday landings in perial, might he delay bagaration and claim the continent for himself?

 

[Easy1]

You might wanna look at this link