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Italy to republic, Ablania, Montengro and Croatia are allies of Italy so i think they would become a republic too.
German Republic allied with Hungary, Slovakia, Baltic and Ukraine. All republic.
Czech, Poland and Romania independent republics, Poland could be allied with the old western allies.
Serbia Bulgaria and Greece independent kingdoms, Bulgaria could still be allied with Germany but i think not.
Baltic would have German ministers and some of Estonia and Latvia.
German Republic allied with Hungary, Slovakia, Baltic and Ukraine. All republic.
Czech, Poland and Romania independent republics, Poland could be allied with the old western allies.
Serbia Bulgaria and Greece independent kingdoms, Bulgaria could still be allied with Germany but i think not.
Baltic would have German ministers and some of Estonia and Latvia.
I'm starting to reconsider the idea that the USSR should be less supportive of a negotiated peace than the Allies. By June 1943 the Allies had pushed Germany out of Africa and were moving on to Italy. The USA was untouchable by the Luftwaffe and any bombing of the UK could be matched by a bombing of Germany. Compare that to the eastern front, where Germany still occupied the Ukraine, Baltics, and Belorussia (and would until Operation Bagration in '44).
Anyways, my first outline for a 1st round peace deal (firing ~30 days after a successful coup)
From the Allies:
Germany withdraws to its pre-war borders
A french occupation of the Ruhr area (roughly the equivalent of the historical northern French zone of occupation) for 10 years.
A referendum on the Saarland (as historical)
20 year US Lease on Bremen (for US troops, ships etc... in Europe. 20 years means this will extend past the game's enddate)
Demilitarization and Denazification
Ending of any German Nuclear program.
Handing over research
Return of open elections
From the Soviets:
German-Polish border about halfway between the current real borders, and the pre-WW2 borders. Germany loses East Prussia.
The Anschluss is voided and a free (non-Soviet puppet) Austria is created
Germany keeps the northern part of the Sudetenland, with part returning to the Czechs.
The Axis-aligned Eastern European states are left to the mercy of the USSR
Demilitarization and Denazification
Ending of any German Nuclear program.
Handing over research
I'm going to have to do some more research regarding Poland's borders. With Germany keeping a good part of its pre-war territory, and the Soviets taking a piece for themselves, Poland might end up fairly small. I'm not sure how important it was for the western Allies for Poland to get part of Germany as compensation for the loss of East Poland to the USSR.
EDIT: Here is a glorious MSPaint idea for a postwar Poland (thank you Dutchemperor for the maps). Please tell me how I got everything wrong.
Anyways, my first outline for a 1st round peace deal (firing ~30 days after a successful coup)
From the Allies:
Germany withdraws to its pre-war borders
A french occupation of the Ruhr area (roughly the equivalent of the historical northern French zone of occupation) for 10 years.
A referendum on the Saarland (as historical)
20 year US Lease on Bremen (for US troops, ships etc... in Europe. 20 years means this will extend past the game's enddate)
Demilitarization and Denazification
Ending of any German Nuclear program.
Handing over research
Return of open elections
From the Soviets:
German-Polish border about halfway between the current real borders, and the pre-WW2 borders. Germany loses East Prussia.
The Anschluss is voided and a free (non-Soviet puppet) Austria is created
Germany keeps the northern part of the Sudetenland, with part returning to the Czechs.
The Axis-aligned Eastern European states are left to the mercy of the USSR
Demilitarization and Denazification
Ending of any German Nuclear program.
Handing over research
I'm going to have to do some more research regarding Poland's borders. With Germany keeping a good part of its pre-war territory, and the Soviets taking a piece for themselves, Poland might end up fairly small. I'm not sure how important it was for the western Allies for Poland to get part of Germany as compensation for the loss of East Poland to the USSR.
EDIT: Here is a glorious MSPaint idea for a postwar Poland (thank you Dutchemperor for the maps). Please tell me how I got everything wrong.
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Just a quick update. Work is going somewhat slowly. I've decided that in any German-Soviet peace when the USSR has control over the Polish Government (the 1st and 2nd potential treaties), then the USSR will take the Konigsberg/Kalinagrad area for itself, as historical. When France occupies part of the Ruhr valley, they will get off easy dissent/partisanwise for the first few years, but then there will be problems until they give the area back to Germany.
As you may be able to tell, I'm looking forward to the many post-war possibilities with an intact Germany. One of the more interesting ones, and the first major possibility for an open World War Three can occur in 1950-51, when Germany has the option to join NATO. Joining NATO will mean any post-war disarmament and troop limitations are removed for Germany. Obviously, the USSR won't be too happy. I've got the event chain mostly planned out.
I'm also working on a "Operation Unthinkable" style chain where the Allies + Germany can reach a peace and then issue an ultimatum to the USSR to fall back to its prewar borders.
As you may be able to tell, I'm looking forward to the many post-war possibilities with an intact Germany. One of the more interesting ones, and the first major possibility for an open World War Three can occur in 1950-51, when Germany has the option to join NATO. Joining NATO will mean any post-war disarmament and troop limitations are removed for Germany. Obviously, the USSR won't be too happy. I've got the event chain mostly planned out.
I'm also working on a "Operation Unthinkable" style chain where the Allies + Germany can reach a peace and then issue an ultimatum to the USSR to fall back to its prewar borders.
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Montenegro???? please explain how montenegro was ally of Italy????
Why would Germany give up east Prussia when it is only 1943?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Eastern_Front_1943-08_to_1944-12.png
As your valkery happens in mid 1943 the Germans stil hold all the colour wich include cities like Smolensk, Kiev, Sebastopol. If you want Poland like that Valkyrie should happen in mid 1944 not mid 1943, or Germany must accept with a treaty even worser then Versailles, wich will only cause WW3. In 1943 Germany was far from being defeated.
In my version it goes about democratic Germany wich defeats, with help and support from the British and Americans, the Soviet union. And they could even decide to give Ukraine to SU.
The Poland you made is more for a mod with: What if the allies occupied more of Europe? instead of, What if was Germany in couped in mid 1943?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Montenegro_(1941–1944)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Eastern_Front_1943-08_to_1944-12.png
As your valkery happens in mid 1943 the Germans stil hold all the colour wich include cities like Smolensk, Kiev, Sebastopol. If you want Poland like that Valkyrie should happen in mid 1944 not mid 1943, or Germany must accept with a treaty even worser then Versailles, wich will only cause WW3. In 1943 Germany was far from being defeated.
In my version it goes about democratic Germany wich defeats, with help and support from the British and Americans, the Soviet union. And they could even decide to give Ukraine to SU.
The Poland you made is more for a mod with: What if the allies occupied more of Europe? instead of, What if was Germany in couped in mid 1943?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Montenegro_(1941–1944)
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My intention is that, if the Germans are negotiating with the USSR, they are mainly focused with keeping most of Germany from occupation, and less with making territorial gains in Belarus and the Ukraine. The USSR has a low chance of even agreeing to try and hammer out a real treaty, and (AI) Germany has a fairly low chance of agreeing to it, since the first one is supposed to be fairly pro-Soviet. The earliest the 2nd round of negotiations can occur (assuming Valkyrie fires in June 43 and Germany starts a 2nd round 180 days later) is in early 1944. Historically, by this time, the USSR had the upper hand, retaken Kiev, cut off the Germans at Sevastopol, and I doubt was willing to stop without some incentive. Also, the USSR had announced, at least to the Allies, their intention to keep Konigsburg at the Tehran Conference (November/December 43)
EDIT: It's also possible (if unlikely for the AI) that the Allies+Germany to order the USSR back to its pre-war borders. With Poland's prewar borders in the east restored, and free from Soviet influence, Germany keeping East Prussia makes more sense. But I think it's something the Allies would have to back.
EDIT: It's also possible (if unlikely for the AI) that the Allies+Germany to order the USSR back to its pre-war borders. With Poland's prewar borders in the east restored, and free from Soviet influence, Germany keeping East Prussia makes more sense. But I think it's something the Allies would have to back.
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But they never caputred it, it goes about RL, in wich it failed, wich can cause the Soviets to make peace, because they are tired of the war. But now my "Valkyrie Germany got off bad" idea.
But first: does Germany defeats USSR or just try to make peace after the coup without defeating them? The goal of Valkyrie was never to destroy Germany, and let it have a even more worse WW1. They should really have east Prussia and maybe West Prussia too (the allies could be happy that finally peace is made after those years of destructing and horrible war, giving only West Prussia up would be that bad for them then, and re-getting Czech), and Austria and and Sudety, 1938 Germany with West Prussia. Poland would go back to Pre War, without West Prussia, but if the Baltic could go independent from SU again (pressure from the western Allies, in trade for influence/puppets in East Europe, Romania (Moldavia to SU), Bulgaria, Hungary, Czech-Slovakia, or those parted between the western allies) I could see Poland invading Lithuania for a port. The rest of Europe will be heavily Allies influenced, Italy, Greece, Low Countries, Scandinavia and maybe Yugoslavia, it will isolate Germany.
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/7595/1naamloos2aw.jpg
i have no idea who could influence Poland and the Baltic, i see influence of Both, may they could make a deal about it, or we can get a Berlin wall type, going right trough Riga or something. Because the allies got Yugoslavia Turkey would go to SU. I think it is a pretty good deal for every party, they all became better out then before the war, everybody got more territory/influence. The allies mainly got the New Western allies and Italy and Yugoslavia while SU got Turkey, Finland and other puppets in East Europe. A reasonable scenario as Germany is really isolated from the West and East, it could maybe still deal with the neutrals, Sweden or Spain, with what they have to offer......
EDIT: And we got another positive thing, less ethnic expulsion from area's, of course the Germans left in new SU territory would be banned (Transylvania and Volga-Germany) and they must move to Germany but now massive things like in OTL Poland, but wich could become aggresive against there Ukrainians....... Well untill now it is a positive thing
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That is not an ally mate, that is a fictional made country not even a puppet .... making montenegro indipendent country in 1943 is ridiculous
Regarding Poland: I don't think Churchill would have accepted Germany keeping the Polish Corridor and Danzig, especially since they were gained after the war began. The USSR also would want to push the Polish border west to the Curzon line (which dates back to 1919). Historically, they compensated Poland with the "regained territories" from Germany, but if Germany is mostly intact the possibility of a Polish "rump state" comes into play.
Regarding Turkey: Unlike the Balkans or the Baltic, Turkey was never occupied or even attacked. They joined the Allies very late in the war (early 1945), after Germany was on its last legs. There was a meeting in Cairo in December 43, but the possibility that Turkey could lose was too great a risk. Stalin did want the Turkish straits (something Russia had wanted since the Crimean War) so the Black Sea Fleet could operate in the Mediterranean, but Roosevelt and Churchill wouldn't have it.
The US getting a "20 year lease" on Bremen is partially for gameplay, so that the US has forces in Europe after WW2. The US still has troops in Germany even to this day.
Regarding Turkey: Unlike the Balkans or the Baltic, Turkey was never occupied or even attacked. They joined the Allies very late in the war (early 1945), after Germany was on its last legs. There was a meeting in Cairo in December 43, but the possibility that Turkey could lose was too great a risk. Stalin did want the Turkish straits (something Russia had wanted since the Crimean War) so the Black Sea Fleet could operate in the Mediterranean, but Roosevelt and Churchill wouldn't have it.
The US getting a "20 year lease" on Bremen is partially for gameplay, so that the US has forces in Europe after WW2. The US still has troops in Germany even to this day.
But you are Serbian and that is what you think, but it was independent under Italian "protection". Accept that, and havent you seen my new version? That way too long post above yours.
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Can we please keep on topic here? I'm sure there is a place to discuss the socio-political issues of the Balkans citra WW2, however it is not here.
If this already isn't in DH with its many new events I'm sure to download it.
Good luck dude
Good luck dude
Most of the aspects of the 6 possible peace treaties have been worked out. Something that hasn't been mentioned is that if the AI (US, UK or Soviet) is close to victory over Germany, they will not negotiate. For gameplay purposes, the Allies (US or UK) will not negotiate if they control Wurzburg, Hannover, or Nuremburg (or Cologne and Bremen). The Soviets will not negotiate if they control Frankfurt-Oder, Postdam, or Berlin.
One of the new ministers Germany will have access to is Reinhard Gehlen (although he is technically in the FRG ministerfiles).
Historically, Gehlen was a senior intelligence officer on the Eastern Front. He played a very minor role with the Germany resistance (recruited by Stauffenburg in 1942), but covered his tracks and avoided the reprisals. Captured by the Allies in '45, he traded countless records and contacts in exchange for freedom for himself and several colleagues. He Headed up the Gehlen Organization, which became one of the major intelligence allies of the CIA in the early Cold War. Later, he became the first director of West Germany's Bundesnachrichtendienst (Federal Intelligence Service), before being forced into retirement in the late 60's.
With Germany still intact, however, there's no need for him to bargain for his freedom. But the US could still use his help. He first appears shortly after the war ends, as part of a potential intelligence alliance between the US and Germany against the USSR. When Wilhelm Canaris (or Hans Oster) retires as head of the Abwehr in 1952, Gehlen is next in line. And if he's still there during the Hungarian Revolution of 1956.....
One of the new ministers Germany will have access to is Reinhard Gehlen (although he is technically in the FRG ministerfiles).
Historically, Gehlen was a senior intelligence officer on the Eastern Front. He played a very minor role with the Germany resistance (recruited by Stauffenburg in 1942), but covered his tracks and avoided the reprisals. Captured by the Allies in '45, he traded countless records and contacts in exchange for freedom for himself and several colleagues. He Headed up the Gehlen Organization, which became one of the major intelligence allies of the CIA in the early Cold War. Later, he became the first director of West Germany's Bundesnachrichtendienst (Federal Intelligence Service), before being forced into retirement in the late 60's.
With Germany still intact, however, there's no need for him to bargain for his freedom. But the US could still use his help. He first appears shortly after the war ends, as part of a potential intelligence alliance between the US and Germany against the USSR. When Wilhelm Canaris (or Hans Oster) retires as head of the Abwehr in 1952, Gehlen is next in line. And if he's still there during the Hungarian Revolution of 1956.....
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Just a hint, you might want to replace this trigger conditions, basing it on single provinces is not that reliable when things go a bit weird.
With the new control area/region triggers, you can set things up so that the event won't fire when the allies control 25% of germany, or if they control the Rhineland or Baden_Wurttemberg, and need probably less triggers.
Good point. I'll have to look into the new control triggers. What I'd prefer to do is that Germany needs to hold onto its "proper" territory to keep negotiation possible (i.e. Occupied France may be considered part of Germany for gameplay reasons, but it shouldn't count for this event).
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no problem.
lost_national = { value = X } # X% or more of national provs of the country in question are in enemy hands
lost_national = { value = X } # X% or more of national provs of the country in question are in enemy hands
Hmm, i have an idea. What about the Prussian generals giving the power back to the Kaiser if the war is won in the East. This would make an interesting cold war scenario between a huge Germany, small Russia(with the emperor as the puppet of kaiser), the balkan, baltic versus the west. Italy could be at either side depending how the war went.
The most I've developed on this theme is that, if the western Allies reach a settlement with Germany, then the USSR gets a major relationship decrease with the Allies, and their chances for negotiating a peace with Germany are significantly increased. Whether Germany would have had a real chance against the USSR without the Western Front is something I'm honestly not sure of; the loss of any French, Dutch, and Belgian industry may offset, at least partially, any bonus of manpower and division Germany could free up. In 1917 the Germany victory in the East wasn't enough to give them victory in the West.
As for the possible return of the Kaiser (which would have to be Wilhelm III until 1951, then this guy), that is something I will definitely add in later.
As for the possible return of the Kaiser (which would have to be Wilhelm III until 1951, then this guy), that is something I will definitely add in later.
What do you mean by this? "Historically they could not even help." Help with what?
Romania and Germany successfully resisted the first Soviet invasion attempt in 1944. This embarrassment on the part of Stalin was subsequently purged from history, at least for many decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jassy-Kishinev_Offensive
And you must realise that only with Romania joining the Allies, did the all the doors for Hungary become open.