Operation Sealion before or after Barbarossa

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Pioniere

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If the goal is to max out enemy dissent, than destroying factories and population is the way to go.

I destroyed factories but I don’t like to reduce populations. Yes, Nixon is a FA in California might sound a bit tricky.
 

MJF

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Barbarossa before sealion for me means that some troops from my Spartan Wehrmacht must guard the Atlantic Wall, and some kind of mobile force sit in Paris to reinforce?!? Militia can't be trusted to guard beaches, can they? I simply don't have that many units...
 

Mr_B0narpte

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Barbarossa before sealion for me means that some troops from my Spartan Wehrmacht must guard the Atlantic Wall
That's what the Hungarian, Romanian & Bulgarian armies are there for. If you wanted some extra guards, the Italians do nicely.
 

Pang Bingxun

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That's what the Hungarian, Romanian & Bulgarian armies are there for.

That is one approach. Another approach is to use the better parts of their army(Inf-Art) at the front and have your own weaker units(unbrigaded Inf) in the west. This can destribute the expected manpower losses more equally. At higher dificulty setting this approach has the merit that your allies enjoy the boni that AI gets at those higher settings.
 

Mr_B0narpte

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That is one approach. Another approach is to use the better parts of their army(Inf-Art) at the front and have your own weaker units(unbrigaded Inf) in the west. This can destribute the expected manpower losses more equally. At higher dificulty setting this approach has the merit that your allies enjoy the boni that AI gets at those higher settings.
Given the org differences, is an unbrigaded German infantry division that much weaker than a brigaded Axis minor infantry unit?
 

Pang Bingxun

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Given the org differences, is an unbrigaded German infantry division that much weaker than a brigaded Axis minor infantry unit?

That depends on details and the presice meaning of weaker. Even if we assume that all units are of the same model, than the unbrigaded high org divisions will not be less able to fend off an invasion in western europe. In eastern europe, where fighting is expected to occur a brigaded division will have about 50% more firepower and given how stacking penalty works that is quite something. With higher firepower battles are won faster thus total losses will be lower.

A crucial concern is that chances are that the german divisions might be a of a higher model, at least on normal difficulty. In that case using the minor divisions for the minor task in the west seem the natural way to go. The german divisions should be where the fighting is expected to occur. And of course they should be well brigaded in this case.


A question of relevance is how well guarded western europe really needs to be. I have seen the UK invade axis Spain and axis controlled denmark and norway. But the coast from Wilhelmshaven till Dax north of Bilbao, does it need to be guarded at all? Or would one unbrigaded axis minor divions per province with a naval base or airbase suffice?

If the UK is reallly daring enough to invade western europe, than this is not a curse, it is a chance. Those troops could then be beaten easily which will thin out the amount of troops remaining for the defence of the UK mainland.
 

Mr_B0narpte

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A question of relevance is how well guarded western europe really needs to be. I have seen the UK invade axis Spain and axis controlled denmark and norway. But the coast from Wilhelmshaven till Dax north of Bilbao, does it need to be guarded at all? Or would one unbrigaded axis minor divions per province with a naval base or airbase suffice?

If the UK is reallly daring enough to invade western europe, than this is not a curse, it is a chance. Those troops could then be beaten easily which will thin out the amount of troops remaining for the defence of the UK mainland.
How would that suffice? I presume you're incorporating some sort of naval or air defence alongside a very weak coastal defence? Or strong land reserves? I was Germany in an online game, invaded the USSR in 1940 with a strong chance of success but the UK player landed in such force that we had to divert far too many forces westwards that it ultimately ended in defeat. That was with the majority of the Italian, Hungarian & Romanian armies defending the Atlantic Wall. I'd hate to imagine what it would be like with just 1 division per beach.
 

Pang Bingxun

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How would that suffice? [...]I'd hate to imagine what it would be like with just 1 division per beach.

I imply less than 1 per beach. It would suffice because no invasion occurs. It is as simple as that.

I just tested the thesis. By mid of march 1940 i had emptied all territory west of 1936 borders. Only Paris, Lille and Brussels had 1 HQ each to protect some Interceptors in their airbases, but that was it. No bombers, no navy and all beachs unguarded. One month later no invasion was attempted.
 

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Mr_B0narpte

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I imply less than 1 per beach. It would suffice because no invasion occurs. It is as simple as that.

I just tested the thesis. By mid of march 1940 i had emptied all territory west of 1936 borders. Only Paris, Lille and Brussels had 1 HQ each to protect some Interceptors in their airbases, but that was it. No bombers, no navy and all beachs unguarded. One month later no invasion was attempted.
That just shows a very poor combat AI... I appreciate the AI doesn't know how to handle what to do after performing an amphibious assualt properly, but the solution isn't for it not to perform any at all.
 

vitality

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In 1940 the allies can't pull off a full scale Normandy with any prospect of success. Even with the Dominion troops helping out Britain can't afford to throw all those troops into France at that stage of the game. This is especially true if Germany is play-controlled. It is in fact good that the ai doesn't throw away troops on doomed naval landings in France. Focusing on the smaller areas and getting smaller detachments of the German army into painful theatres where panzers are not as strong. Its a good strategy for the ai.
 

Commander666

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Barbarossa before sealion for me means that some troops from my Spartan Wehrmacht must guard the Atlantic Wall, and some kind of mobile force sit in Paris to reinforce?!? Militia can't be trusted to guard beaches, can they? I simply don't have that many units...

Also, you seem not to build GAR - who are excellent defense. Besides, France should be green because I think the factories will recover quicker and TC increases with the partisans gone. Admitably, raising both IC and TC is probably a bigger concern for me than you. :)
 

Pang Bingxun

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France should be green because I think the factories will recover quicker

I suppose that is true. Provincial efficiency raises each day by 1/135 of current maximum in national provinces and 1/270 in nonnational provinces. Local dissent reduces the current maximum and thereby, if only to a somewhat small degree, the daily gain of provincial efficiency. The amount of days needed to reach the respective maximum however does not change.

In other words factories donnot recover meaningfully quicker, but they and the resource production reach higher values in the end. In nonnational provinces this takes lots of time, so it will not pay off in the short run. TC and ESE are likely the bigger concern.
 

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I have seen the Allies land in Portugal and anexed it a few times. Maybe the allies should liberate Rep.Spain and the axis could liberate Portugal?
 

Pioniere

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One day we will harvest the full potential of England(u73) when we get build for u73s ai past 1945.
So far the u73 only builds basic infantry when it could destroyers, transports and some interceptors.
It might even build a few synthetic oil plants, a few subs and a small group of mech-infantry. Its useful that u73 has many regulars, but it needs more than that.
It could help the coalition to guard Ireland and its coast against the uk.
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A new naval base in Wales just for the show, maybe not that.
The german-ai cant invaded the uk, but it could liberate northern Ireland.
 

Mr_B0narpte

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In 1940 the allies can't pull off a full scale Normandy with any prospect of success. Even with the Dominion troops helping out Britain can't afford to throw all those troops into France at that stage of the game. This is especially true if Germany is play-controlled. It is in fact good that the ai doesn't throw away troops on doomed naval landings in France. Focusing on the smaller areas and getting smaller detachments of the German army into painful theatres where panzers are not as strong. Its a good strategy for the ai.
This is why I play online. Can the Allied AI even perform a successful D-Day? Even if it has, I imagine it's more that the Germany AI doesn't respond very well rather than the Allies landing in significant force.
 

MJF

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That's what the Hungarian, Romanian & Bulgarian armies are there for. If you wanted some extra guards, the Italians do nicely.
I rarely take command of a major ally, and if I do, it's just to, say, close off the last 3-4 MED provinces to the Allies, or stop a Nat. Chinese move back to the sea (A conquered and liberated ally I will control). The E.Euro idea is not bad, but in 1.11 Germany must almost always attack Romania. No extra troops from them. Bulgaria joins too late to be much help in my timetable. A liberated Spain &/or Norway doesn't furnish troops for some time. I'm usually weak for armor in August '40 -- I'm lucky to have 6 Pz IIIs/SPart and 15 MOT/art's. The Croats have to garrison Yugo & Greece. This leaves the Hungarians, with their disappointing Pz II's/HA's and some infantry. Too gamey for me to take command of Italy on Norman/Normal (or N/A)...

However -- my Carriers can guard the French Coast & maybe the North Sea, the Channel -- maybe an ancillary smaller fleet, and my BC IVs can dispatch the Russian Navy (Probably...?). But...

The other problem is UK Str. Bombing. I have few INTs, and build almost no AA, and only 2-3 radar stations. Why not, if my plan is to kick the Brits out around November '39. I will at times need those INTs on the E. Front.
 

MJF

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Also, you seem not to build GAR - who are excellent defense. Besides, France should be green because I think the factories will recover quicker and TC increases with the partisans gone. Admitably, raising both IC and TC is probably a bigger concern for me than you. :)
I do after Barbarossa is in full swing, and looking good, but little IC for that before. I invade France while significantly behind in upgrades.
 
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Mr_B0narpte

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The E.Euro idea is not bad, but in 1.11 Germany must almost always attack Romania.
Why's that? Does Romania not join the Axis anymore?

Do you research the base strike doctrine for your carriers?