• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Rictus

bAAR Landowner
98 Badges
Mar 10, 2001
1.517
0
www.geocities.com
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Rome Gold
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • War of the Roses
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
Sorry for my lengthy absence (well, 3 days is lengthy for me) but Ozfest demanded my appearance (and it was a blinding festival, I'll have you know) Since it is holiday in the US on monday then if the patch hasn't arrived by Tuesday, Storey can take my place.

Such a shame. Toodles all.
 

Faeelin

Field Marshal
79 Badges
Dec 15, 2001
7.283
2.547
Visit site
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
Mr. T's been a violent little doge.

I thank him, as 400 years of players discussing how they fended off x attack would get a little... boring?
 

unmerged(1996)

Colonel
Mar 19, 2001
858
0
www.thealienonline.net
Nah. I've got something entirely different in mind for what/how I'm going to write it. Nothing in the above will affect that and you'll either enjoy it (or not) on its own merrits...
Actually, I meant that if you give a summary of your reign before you write up your AAR then it's rather like putting something on the movie poster to the effect that at the End of Star Wars Episode II we learn that Anakin Skywalker isn't Luke and Leia's father after all - it's Yoda...

If the guys in the A Team want to keep track of your thoughts and plans, then surely that's what the additional Word file is for?

Or in other words, NO SPOILERS!!!

Please.

;)
 

unmerged(1996)

Colonel
Mar 19, 2001
858
0
www.thealienonline.net
And another thing...

Could the A Team please stop posting for a while, to give the B Team a chance to catch up?

I personally have no idea what the Doges before me are planning to do, but if the Doges in the A Team go off in one direction, then the B Team might feel pressurised into doing something different to avoid accusations of plagiarism, even if it's not necessarily the best / most successful course.

I'd rather the A and B Team players who shared a Doge each waited until the other was ready to go and then they posted simultaneously. I realise this will slow thing up, but hey, it's not our fault we haven't got 1.05 yet...
 

Lord Durham

The Father of AARland
12 Badges
Apr 29, 2001
6.634
5
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
I have to agree on Ariel's suggestion. I've read MrT's delightful preamble, but I won't read any further until I've had a chance to play my portion of the game. I think it would be a good idea to post in tandem (hear's groans from A-Team) :D
 

unmerged(6777)

Field Marshal
Dec 10, 2001
12.470
5
I can live with that, and the points you raise are valid. Keeping them in perfect tandem might not be necessary, but keeping them fairly close is a good idea. I'll hold off posting until you guys are 1.05-friendly.

As discussed earlier, I think that if the UK patch hasn't been posted by 5:00PM GMT then a doge-swap should occur. Might I suggest, though, that Rictus swap his first doge with Honour_Shogun's first doge (who has a reign of more or less exactly the same length) so that the list of pass-offs can remain otherwise unchanged. Living here in Canada, HS will have the current version already... If you'd rather do a wholesale doge-swap with someone then let me know who - Storey? - and I'll modify the files and send out new copies to everyone so there's no confusion (and edit the listings at the head of each thread). Whatever works for you guys.

*****

Ariel: Point taken. I'll restrain myself...
 

unmerged(6777)

Field Marshal
Dec 10, 2001
12.470
5
P.S. to A-Team members...that doesn't mean stop playing, though. Let's keep those files moving along so if we hit a glitch later we can recover without any unnecessary delays.

And...

A question: Exactly which countries do not have the 1.05 release yet?...or perhaps more to the point, which distributors haven't yet gotten their copy-protected patches back to Paradox yet?
 

unmerged(8608)

Speshul
Apr 8, 2002
378
0
Visit site
Ubisoft haven't, so that means all of Europe except Scandinavia.

The B team files aren't gonna get a lot further if Ubi dont release the patch soon...in fact they'll get to the fourth (i think) player- me, before they get stuck...
 

Rictus

bAAR Landowner
98 Badges
Mar 10, 2001
1.517
0
www.geocities.com
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Rome Gold
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • War of the Roses
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
Originally posted by MrT

As discussed earlier, I think that if the UK patch hasn't been posted by 5:00PM GMT then a doge-swap should occur. Might I suggest, though, that Rictus swap his first doge with Honour_Shogun's first doge (who has a reign of more or less exactly the same length) so that the list of pass-offs can remain otherwise unchanged. Living here in Canada, HS will have the current version already... If you'd rather do a wholesale doge-swap with someone then let me know who - Storey? - and I'll modify the files and send out new copies to everyone so there's no confusion (and edit the listings at the head of each thread). Whatever works for you guys.

Sounds good to me. I'm willing to swap my first Doge with Honour Shoguns so that we can get this show on the road.
 

Vandelay

CEO Vandelay Industries
4 Badges
Feb 13, 2001
1.406
0
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
This is in no way a critique of your writing Mr T - just the way the A-team playing style seems to develop.

I find myself agreeing with kurtbrian (go ahead call me a traitor...) - with the current A-team pace of annexations and conquest I´ll be playing the Roman Empire when it´s my turn and not the Venetian Republic...

I want Venice to be between a rock and a hard place i.e. Austria and Ottomans!

It seems to me that in collaborative AARs every player wants to make his "mark" usually meaning war and conquest - something which is very easy to do early in the GC (the Denmark collaborative AAR suffered from this as well).

I guess conquest oriented EU is not my cup of tea...

Cheers,
Vandelay
 

unmerged(1996)

Colonel
Mar 19, 2001
858
0
www.thealienonline.net
Vandelay has a point - I've played a few games that I haven't AAR'ed (for reasons that will become apparent) in which a lot of early conquest leads to a very dull mid-game, as BB wars give way to meaningless stalemates once the offending party's (i.e. my) standing army gets too large for the AI to tackle. And as for the end-game - putting down rebellion after rebellion in far-distant and recently-conquered provinces isn't my idea of fun....

So what does the B Team think, given that we haven't started yet? Should we set a few team ground rules with regard to restraining excessive conquest early on? Or maybe a longer-term strategic objective that gives carte blanche on individual conflicts as long as they can be rationalised in terms of the eventual outcome?

Or should we just let folks get on with it..?

Although I do have a suggestion for Vandelay - when your turn comes around, you could always play a peace and freedom-loving Doge who decides to release a few (dozen) vassals... ;)
 

Norgesvenn

LurkAAR
95 Badges
Jun 13, 2001
3.522
1
Visit site
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
I agree with Ariel, really. In 1.05, it seems even the most conquest-hungry AI tends to vassalise instead of conquering. I like vassals too. :) So, given that Backpack and I have three doges, each with a lifespan like... well, your average boy band, there won't be that many conquests from our part... ;)

Anyway, go B team!
 

Vandelay

CEO Vandelay Industries
4 Badges
Feb 13, 2001
1.406
0
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
Although I do have a suggestion for Vandelay - when your turn comes around, you could always play a peace and freedom-loving Doge who decides to release a few (dozen) vassals...

Doge Giovanni Bembo leads the entire Venetian Senate in a mighty choir:

"All we are saying is give peace a chance!"

followed by:

"War! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!"

The A-team will love me...

BTW Ariel, I´ve been hooked on The Alien Online - good reviews, interesting author interviews. Bought "Kushiel´s Dart" based on the review at Alien Online - good book (S&M is strangely fascinating:eek: ).

/Vandelay
 

The_Hawk

To live, to die, to live again.
109 Badges
Mar 12, 2002
1.285
0
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
I'm inclined to agree with the assessment that early rulers tend to conquer alot of land -- but then, alot of players try to conquer alot of land early in the game to build their income so they can fund building, colonization, or BB wars. ;) It is notable that this tends to happen alot in collaborative AARs, and in this sense I think Venice was a poor choice, simply because there's a Doge with a (comparatively) enormously long reign as number two on the list. The same rules we're expecting to limit Venetian expansion in later reigns -- primarily the fact that, in a few years, you can't follow anything through to conclusion -- don't apply to Francesco Foscarini.

That said, having already played cleanup for Lord Joseph in the Burgundy collaborative, it's not all bad. Personally, I liked what I was able to do in my reign. Sure, it wasn't as flashy as what LJ did, but I managed to consolidate things pretty well and get a good handle on the rest of France. I think the only *really* bad thing to do to your successor(s) is hand them an enormous BB war. That's the only real ground rule I would establish.

Ultimately, if you don't like massive expansionism, it's possible to sit on your hands and spend your reign building walls and deploying merchants (I might), but that's just not possible if your predecessor hands you a badboy mess. (Sorry to disagree with you so strongly, MrT, but while you may consider BB an advantage, I *never* like to fight at a time or place of the enemy's chosing if I can avoid it. Handing a player such as myself a massive BB is a curse more than a blessing -- which is why, as soon as I opened the Burgundy file, I shook my head and said, "Oh, man..." ;))
 

The_Hawk

To live, to die, to live again.
109 Badges
Mar 12, 2002
1.285
0
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
Funny that Vandelay and I are playing the same doges, and seem to both be peacemongers... ;)
 

Vandelay

CEO Vandelay Industries
4 Badges
Feb 13, 2001
1.406
0
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
Funny that Vandelay and I are playing the same doges, and seem to both be peacemongers...

Yeah, we can compete by measuring number of vassals released, manufactories built and merchants sent!!!

Riveting...

Cheers,
Vandelay
 

unmerged(1996)

Colonel
Mar 19, 2001
858
0
www.thealienonline.net
BTW Ariel, I´ve been hooked on The Alien Online - good reviews, interesting author interviews. Bought "Kushiel´s Dart" based on the review at Alien Online - good book (S&M is strangely fascinating ).
Thanks for saying so Vandelay. Glad to hear you like the site. :) And yes, S&M can be... intriguing... at times... ;)

But just to keep myself OnT, I think perhaps previous posters have hit on the essential problems with a Multiplayer Collaborative AAR - everyone wants to impress the other readers by conquering the neighbours, no-one wants to be the guy who strengthens the economy and develops the infrastructure so that the warmongers can do their thang and looking boring by comparison...

A dilemma indeed. Maybe one of those rules I was mooting should be that a player is only allowed one non-CB DOW per Doge, or per ten years for the longer reigns..? That might keep the more violently inclined in check, and provide a more 'historical' feel to the AAR. After all, asI seem to remember from reading Jan Morris's 'The Venetian Empire', Venice wasn't a particularly warlike nation during the period, unless their territory or trade interests were directly threatened.

I think the paramount concern of the AAR writers should be to make their AAR segments interesting, not necessarily spectacular. And if that means seeing Venice on the ropes and struggling to hold off the Turk / Austrians rather than lording it over a massive HRE-wide Empire, then so be it...
 

unmerged(6528)

Unusually Foolish
Nov 26, 2001
1.391
0
Visit site
I completely agree with you Ariel, and I believe the above posters have a point. However, I think that just because you don't have to go to war doesn't mean you shouldn't. Instead I prefer the idea of picking a particular play style for your doge and sticking to it. That was the reason for my "Doge's" actions, and I think it worked out well.

Also, a nations power is measured by its wealth/colonies/manufactories, so I don't see why its a problem if you want to be an industrious doge rather than a warmaker. I think, when its your turn, you should play it how you feel.

RJ