PDS can't please everyone. Most/Many people didn't like the OOB.
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OOB Hearts of Iron IV and III
- Thread starter Anymox
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PDS can't please everyone. Most/Many people didn't like the OOB.
Sadly but you're right. I hope the mods will be able to change the command of system
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What I find funny in this whole debate is that most people seem to hate the OOB from HOI3 because of the micro-managing that was required, but it's not like HOI4 is getting rid of micro-managing, it's just moving it to other areas.....in fact creating some micro that didn't exist in 3. For example training in 3 was a law, one click and you had your training, now you train units on the map and pick which ones are training. Another thing is equipment, in 3 it was an upgrades slider, in 4 you have support equipment, tanks, artillery pieces, even small arms to build, replace and keep track of. In 3 you had IC, in 4 you have three different types of factory's. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the new equipment and production system in this game, love love love it. But if people didn't like 3 because of micro-managing then wouldn't they also dislike this new production system too?
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I like the OOBs for immersion, but they don't have to have any ingame effects. I'm sure there's going to be a third-party tool or something for that like there was in HOI 3
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OK lets do a little mental exercise using the screen below.
15 French Divisions are ordered North to a Front line 8 provinces wide and because there are only 15 Divisions the AI must position in one of those Provinces a single Division, you have no idea what Province this will be or even what Division, I simply picked one as an example.
In the South we also have 15 Divisions that move in the first phase to a Front line 3 Provinces wide logically this will then mean that the AI will position 5 Divisions in each Province.
For part of the second phase it will send 7 Divisions to a Front line 5 Provinces wide but this will create a dilemma for the AI because the only way to distribute 7 Divisions in 5 Provinces is to have 3 of those Provinces contain only 1 Division and once again you have no idea what provinces will contain only one Division.
To be actually sure of what is going to happen you would have to intervene and manually position some of those Divisions yourself which of course creates another problem.
Lets assume manual control takes a Division out of AI control which would then mean that the AI has less Divisions and could readjust all of the positions.
Unless Paradox have something brilliant up their sleeves I cannot see even the most simple of Battle Plans working.
15 French Divisions are ordered North to a Front line 8 provinces wide and because there are only 15 Divisions the AI must position in one of those Provinces a single Division, you have no idea what Province this will be or even what Division, I simply picked one as an example.
In the South we also have 15 Divisions that move in the first phase to a Front line 3 Provinces wide logically this will then mean that the AI will position 5 Divisions in each Province.
For part of the second phase it will send 7 Divisions to a Front line 5 Provinces wide but this will create a dilemma for the AI because the only way to distribute 7 Divisions in 5 Provinces is to have 3 of those Provinces contain only 1 Division and once again you have no idea what provinces will contain only one Division.
To be actually sure of what is going to happen you would have to intervene and manually position some of those Divisions yourself which of course creates another problem.
Lets assume manual control takes a Division out of AI control which would then mean that the AI has less Divisions and could readjust all of the positions.
Unless Paradox have something brilliant up their sleeves I cannot see even the most simple of Battle Plans working.
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There's a difference between these things and spending litterally hours tediously setting up and keeping track of your OOB/COC in HOI3.
If OOBs are really that important to people, grab some third party program like Word and make a table where you assign every division to a corps, every corps to an army, and so on.
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How dare those filthy casuals have a different opinion! Outrageous!
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People still don't understand that there are more than 2 otptions!
Nobody wants HoI 3 OOB back. That does not mean, they have to get rid of an OOB entirely.
There's a third option! Make it possible, but not necessary to create a deeper commad structure, so people like me can set up a proper OOB and casual players don't need to do it. I don't know, why people are opposing this idea. There is literally NO reason to rule against this idea.
Nobody wants HoI 3 OOB back. That does not mean, they have to get rid of an OOB entirely.
There's a third option! Make it possible, but not necessary to create a deeper commad structure, so people like me can set up a proper OOB and casual players don't need to do it. I don't know, why people are opposing this idea. There is literally NO reason to rule against this idea.
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We do understand that. It's just that it would be a lot of work for the developers, for a feature not too many people want. Look at the mess the HOI3 OOB was.
I wouldn't mind it if tthey made a kind of "OOB DLC", but I really don't see it happening due to the cost-benefit ratio.
Also keep in mind HOI4 is already considered delayed. I certainly don't want the devs to start working on another new feature now, I just want the game to get out the door.
I wouldn't mind it if tthey made a kind of "OOB DLC", but I really don't see it happening due to the cost-benefit ratio.
Also keep in mind HOI4 is already considered delayed. I certainly don't want the devs to start working on another new feature now, I just want the game to get out the door.
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You don't think you will spend literally hours on the new production system? Just imagine what you have to do when you discover a new Tank. Do you immediately change over all the factory's to produce the new model and lose the gearing bonus? Do you do a combination and switch most of the factory's for the old model over to producing TD's on the old chassis? Or SPART? And what do you do with the old models still in the stockpile? There is quite a lot of complexity and micro-managing here that didn't exist in HOI3. The only difference is that you find one interesting and one tedious. That's fine, I on the other hand find them both interesting, to each their own. My points is that if people just don't like micro-managing, there's still plenty of it here (which is not a bad thing IMO).
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Sorry, didn't realise you'd get that pedantic.
Combined, over time, I absolutely will, yes. But will I have to slave over the interface for an hour to set up a new production line every time a new vehicle is researched, or, in fact, ever? Nope.
Also, you'll notice that what you're describing involves actual thinking. There's a difference between complexity that adds depth, such as deciding when you stop producing your current tanks and start building better ones, and complexity that's just a chore gameplay-wise. Spending time in the production tab deciding what factories produce what units is different from just mindlessly building up an OOB by assigning divisions to corps, making HQs move around, and trying to keep your OOB/COC from degrding into a total mess. I did enjoy forming tank corps and whatnot as Germany, but let's face it, 99% of the time it was just mindless work. It wasn't thinking, it didn't involve stratetic thinking, it was a chore. Like tidying your room, vacuuming the floor, or painting a wall.
Except painting can actually be cozy.
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I loved the OOB in HOI3 it took a while to set up but once that was done it was a time-saver. With one click you could select your moble army then move it up to prapare for attack. One click gave you the panzer corps for the break-through. One click gave you the light-panzer corps to move through the break-through and begin taking the hinterland. One click gave you the motorized corps to move up and hold the land you had captured. Anyone who found it increased mircomanagement wasn't using it properly.
If you didnt like assigning all the officers you could unassign them all promote the good ones so they will command armies and armygroups demote the useless ones so they will only command divisions then use auto-assign.
The only thing I didnt like was having the headquarters as a unit on the map. They should have been off-map.
HOI4 seems to have a rather shallow system. It will make it more difficult to organise offensives. Or select the right kind of troops to use in certain areas. At least the generals will give us some ability to organize our armies but there will be no sub-groups.
I guess we will just have to enjoy the positive aspects of HOI4. Im really looking forward to the production system. And they have brought back the best aspect of HOI2........... Research teams.
If you didnt like assigning all the officers you could unassign them all promote the good ones so they will command armies and armygroups demote the useless ones so they will only command divisions then use auto-assign.
The only thing I didnt like was having the headquarters as a unit on the map. They should have been off-map.
HOI4 seems to have a rather shallow system. It will make it more difficult to organise offensives. Or select the right kind of troops to use in certain areas. At least the generals will give us some ability to organize our armies but there will be no sub-groups.
I guess we will just have to enjoy the positive aspects of HOI4. Im really looking forward to the production system. And they have brought back the best aspect of HOI2........... Research teams.
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That was actually the main thing wrong with the HOI3 command structure because it caused all kinds of weird gameplay problems. Just removing that and division generals would have been a major improvement. Corps, armies, army group, and Theater HQs could be off map entities, with a nice command structure display tool.
I am trying to understand what PI thinks they they have accomplished by going to a no-tier command structure. Is it really about focus on the FM, with generals acting as temporary specialists for specific battles and situations. For example Rommel commanding the Afrika Korps, or Guderian commanding a Panzer Army, or Yamashita in command of the Malaysia campaign, but the rest of the time, all armies are commanded by the FM. Is it really about forcing the player to choose between placing divisions under a general or an FM at any one time? If it is, I find it a disappointing solution - an extreme over-simplication. I would be happy, however, with even a two-tier system, FMs in command of generals not divisions.
I would be interested in hearing the rationale behind this system from the development team.
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As long as I can have my fix of micromanagement and OOB with HOI3 and BICE I'm happy 
I'm pretty sure that after 3 expansions and a few mods HOI4 will became as good as HOI3
I'm pretty sure that after 3 expansions and a few mods HOI4 will became as good as HOI3
Feel free to point out how if I'm wrong, but I am not aware of any mechanism by which you cna do it as you describe. If you unassign leaders, you cannot 're-autoassign'. Auto-assigning takes place when a brigade changes (e.g. a merge happens), or the unit is first deployed. There is no button to "assign leaders" across the board. If you unassign them, you need to manually reassign them.
If you turned off Auto-Assign, unassigned all leaders, then turned it back on again, it would assign leaders to all units contingent upon it's programming.
I get the argument about control+clicking, but that was also pretty much the only positive side with the OOB. Even things like bonuses trickling down the hierarchy really only gave you an unfair advantage over the AI. I don't mind a way to "save" a unit group and tell the game that "okay, this pack of units is really important, and I really want to be able to hit a key to select them all", but it's just not worth bringing back the whole OOB system for.
Come to think of it, this can be achieved simply by selecting every tank and hitting "Ctrl+1".
Come to think of it, this can be achieved simply by selecting every tank and hitting "Ctrl+1".
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I will test this when I get home but have never noticed this functionality in my 600 hours.
I did, much to my dismay while trying to re-assign all the officers in my 1936 Wehrmacht one time...
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