OOB and information of China for moders

[Kesselring]

I have see DH and many mods,I think you should lack of OOB and information of China,I will provide it and hope you make DH and many other mods better.
I'm sorry my English is poor.

TAN(唐努图瓦)：
1930s：
1 Infantry Regiment
1 Cavalry Battalion

3500 man（1930s）
8200+（1944-）

landunit =
{ location = 1119
id = { type = 31600 id = 1 }
name = "Tuva People's Army"
Division =
{ id = { type = 31600 id = 2 }
name = "Tuva infantry Regiment"
type = infantry
model = 5
strength = 30
}
}

MON（外蒙古）：
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_People's_Army
1st Corps
2nd Corps
3rd Corps
1st Cavalry Division
2nd Cavalry Division
3rd Cavalry Division
4th Cavalry Division
5th Cavalry Division
6th Cavalry Division
7th Cavalry Division
8th Cavalry Division ‘World’
9th Cavalry Division
10th Cavalry Division

Cavalry Division TOE is 6000

SIK（新疆）：
http://book.chaoxing.com/ebook/read_10825928_292.html
Anti-Imperialist Army（反帝军）1935：
1281（Dihua迪化）：
Guard Regiment（督署卫队团）1500
Dihua City Defense Battalion（迪化城防大队）800
Teach Regiment（教导团）1000
1280（Yili伊犁）：
Yili Garrison Command（伊犁警备司令部）583
7th Cavalry Regiment 648
Tacheng Garrison Command（塔城警备司令部）400
1273（Chenghua承华）：
Ashan Garrison Command（阿山警备司令部）520
1276：
Qitai City Defense Command（奇台城防司令部）800
1277（Hami哈密）：
Hami Garrison Command（哈密警备司令部）420
1281：
Tushantuo Garrison Command（吐鄯托警备司令部）148
12th Infantry Regiment 703
8th Cavalry Regiment 285
1279（Kashengeer喀什噶尔）：
Kashengeer Garrison Command（喀什噶尔警备司令部）308
4th Cavalry Regiment 587
5th Cavalry Regiment 430
9th Cavalry Regiment 672
7th Infantry Division 1500
1275（Yanqi焉耆）：
Yanqi Garrison Command（焉耆警备司令部）386
1282：
6th Cavalry Regiment 547（White Russian）
other 3 art bn,2 eng bn,1 AC bn,3 Aircraft bn

landunit =
{ location = 1281
name = "Anti-Imperialist Army"
id = { type = 25600 id = 1 }
Division =
{ id = { type = 25600 id = 2 }
name = "1 Xinjiang Division"
type = infantry
strength = 40
model = 6
}
}

1943：
128th Division（1281）（old 1 Xinjiang Division）
Provisional 3rd Division（1281）
11th Cavalry Division（1276）
12th Cavalry Division（1279）
New 1st Cavalry Division（1280）
New 2nd Cavalry Division（1275）

landunit =
{ location = 1281
name = "8th War Area"
id = { type = 25600 id = 1 }
Division =
{ id = { type = 25600 id = 2 }
name = "128 Division"
type = infantry
strength = 40
model = 6
}
Division =
{ id = { type = 25600 id = 3 }
name = "P3 Division"
type = infantry
strength = 40
model = 6
}
Division =
{ id = { type = 25600 id = 4 }
name = "11 Cavalry Division"
type = Cavalry
strength = 40
model = 3
}
Division =
{ id = { type = 25600 id = 5 }
name = "12 Cavalry Division"
type = Cavalry
strength = 40
model = 3
}
Division =
{ id = { type = 25600 id = 6 }
name = "N1 Cavalry Division"
type = Cavalry
strength = 40
model = 3
}
Division =
{ id = { type = 25600 id = 7 }
name = "N2 Cavalry Division"
type = Cavalry
strength = 40
model = 3
}
}

TIB（西藏）：
Tibetan army Headquarters（马基康Majikang）
1st Regiment（代本Daiben）（Guard）1000
2nd Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed）1011
3rd Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 1000
4th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 500
5th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed）500
6th Regiment（Artillery（just only 6 Small Artillery）） 500
7th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 500
8th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 500
9th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 500
10th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 500

1950 add：
11th Regiment（Security）300
（no 12,12 means Disease in Tibetan language）
13th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 400
14th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 1600（1932-1933.1950-）
15th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 500
16th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 1896
17th Regiment（Infantry Cavalry mixed） 1896

tips：1、2、3 TOE is 1000，other TOE is 500
all Regiments attached to Tibetan army Headquarters

 

[Kretoxian]

Yesssss this is really interesting! thank you! One question though. Could you tell us where each unit was located or had its headquarters in the case of the Mongolian and Tibetan Armies please?

 

[Praetonia]

The Chinese OOB is more about making the game work than being realistic I think.

IRL the Chinese army was very ineffective for its size for political, organisational and economic reasons. This isn't well modeled by the game. On the other hand we don't want to go back to HoI2 where China is ahistorically annexed in 1938 every game. So what we have now is an awkward but decent compromise.

 

[Epaminondas]

If you want to see the Chinese army modelled effectively (and the entire Sino-Japanese War for that matter) check out the CORE mod for AoD. In terms of both historical accuracy and gameplay it's streets ahead of anything else going round. I'm sure they'd welcome your information there, nexus.

 

[Kesselring]

MEN（蒙古国）：
Mongolian army
1936：
1st Corps
1st Division（Security）
2nd Division（Security）
3rd Division（Security）
4th Division（Cavalry）
art bn

2nd Corps
5th Division（Cavalry）
6th Division（Cavalry）
7th Division（Cavalry）
8th Division（Cavalry）
Guard Division（later 9th Division）（Cavalry）
art reg
mp bn

Division TOE is 1200，800-900 real

 

[Kesselring]

U74（华北政务委员会）
North China Garrison Army
1st Army（1939.10-）1R,2R
2nd Army（1939.10-）3R,4R（1943.10-）3R,8R
3rd Army（1939.10-）5R,6R
4th Army（1940.10-）9R,10R（1943.10-）3R,8R
5th Army（1940.10-）11R,12R
6th Army（1940.10-）14R,15R（1943.10-）14R,15R,16R
7th Army（1940.10-）18R,19R（1943.10-）18R,19R,20R
8th Army（1941.10-）21R,22R（1943.10-）21R,22R,34R（old 107R）
9th Army（1941.10-）25R,26R

101st Army ‘Heaven’（1941.9-）101R,102R,103R
10th Army（old 101st Army）（1943.9-）28R（old 101R）,29R（old 102R）,30R（old 103R）

102nd Army（1941.9-）104R,105R,106R
11th Army（old 102nd Army）（1943.9-）31R（old 104R）,32R（old 105R）,33R（old 106R）

12th Army（maybe 103rd Army）（1945.3-）35R,36R,37R
13th Army（maybe 104th Army）（1945.3-）38R,39R,40R
Teach Army（1941.10-）NCO Teach Regiment,Infantry Teach Regimen

Army just division level,altogether about 90000 men,an army about 10000,12 and 13 army total 6000,missing Regiment numeral is Independent Regiment：7,8,13,16,17,20,21,23,24

 

[Kesselring]

KMT AF（1936-1937）
1st Group（bomber）1sq（10）,2sq（9）
2nd Group（bomber）9sq（9）,11sq（9）,14sq（9）
3rd Group（fighter）7sq（9）,8sq（7）,17sq（10）
4th Group（fighter）21sq（10）,22sq（9）,23sq（10）
5th Group（fighter）24sq（10）,25sq（9）,28sq（10）
6th Group（Recon）3sq（9b）,4sq（11b）,5sq（9b）,15sq(9f7b)
7th Group（Recon）6sq（9）,12sq（9）,16sq（9）
8th Group（bomber）10sq（12）,19sq（7）,30sq（6）
9th Group（Attack）26sq（10）,27sq（10）
Provisional Group 32sq（9b）,34sq（9f）,35sq（9r）
13sq（7b）
18sq（9b3r）
20sq（9b）
31sq（9b）
33sq（9f）
Transport sq

sichuan AF became 33sq
hunan AF became 11sq,12sq,13sq,14sq
guangxi AF became 3rd Group（7sq,8sq,32sq）,34sq
guangdong AF became 16sq,17sq,18sq,19sq,20sq,28sq,29sq,30sq,31sq

Zet
Soviet Volunteer Group ‘Sword of Justice’：
1st intercepter fighter Group（40 I-15）
2nd intercepter fighter Group（40 I-16）
1st Light bomber Group（20 SB-2）
2nd Light bomber Group（20 SB-3）
heavy bomber Group（24 DB-3）

AVG
American Volunteer Group ‘The Flying Tigers’
1st fighter squadron
2nd fighter squadron
3rd fighter squadron

each squadron with about 20 aircraft

 

[Kesselring]

MAN（满洲帝国）
Manchukuo Army（1936）：
Jing'an Army（靖安军）later became 1st Jing'an Division（1IR,2IR,CR,AR）6000
Xing'an Division（兴安师）later became 2nd Xing'an Division（11CR,12CR,IR,AR）
Guard Brigade（mixed Regiment）
1-5 AA Reg
1-3,Xing'an figher sq（each about 28-32）
River Corps（Marines）1MR 1000,2MR 500,3MR 370

1st Military District：
Andong Garrison Command（1,2,3 mixed Brigade）
Fengtian Garrison Command（4,5,6 mixed Brigade）

2nd Military District：
Jilin Garrison Command（8,9 mixed Brigade）
Xinjing Garrison Command（10 mixed Brigade,2 Cavalry Brigade）
Jiandao Garrison Command（7 mixed Brigade,1 Cavalry Brigade）

3rd Military District：
Heihe Garrison Command（15 mixed Brigade）
Longjiang Garrison Command（12,13,14 mixed Brigade,5 Cavalry Brigade）

4th Military District：
Binjiang Garrison Command（16,17,18,28 mixed Brigade）
Sanjiang Garrison Command（22,23,27 mixed Brigade）

5th Military District：
Jingzhou Garrison Command（24,25 mixed Brigade）
Chengde Garrison Command（26 mixed Brigade,7 Cavalry Brigade）

6th Military District：
Mudanjiang Garrison Command（11,19,20,21 mixed Brigade,4 Cavalry Brigade）

Xing'an Military District：
South Xing'an Garrison Command（5,10 CR）
West Xing'an Garrison Command（4,6 CR）
North Xing'an Garrison Command（7,8,9 CR）
East Xing'an Garrison Command（1,2,3 CR）

1944 add
Iron Stone group（Cavalry）1400
Iron Heart group（Infantry）1800
Iron Blood group（Railway Security）

1947 became KMT CHI:
N1C P53D
N6C P62D
N3C P59D
N7C P56D,P61D
N8C P54D,P55D
52C P58D
53C P30D
60C P52D

later CHI 60C P52D became CHC 50C 150D

 

[Limith]

谢谢您

Thank you very much.

Btw, I care about accurate OOB's. I'd rather have an accurate OOB and figure out what I need to modify to make the scenario balanced, over having the current setup. The current setup imho I consider broken and I have merge 1936 CCIP into DHF as a major goal of mine for 1.04 since AI Japan just curbstomps AI China in 1937 and basically annexes CHI in 1938 in almost all of my games (with only a forced ai stupidity passiveness saving AI CHI as AI Japan is scripted to not advance at all even though the provinces next to it have 0 troops due to CHI having almost no troops left as a result of encirclements)

你有1914-1933年的中国OOB吗？

Do you have OOB's for 1914-1933?

______________

Re: CORE Mod, I thought they just ported over parts of CCIP for ARMA? Maybe I'm wrong, someone feel free to correct me. If I'm wrong, I'll download the mod to look at what they changed. I think I did already before and was disappointed, which was why I worked on CCIP for DH.

 

[Kesselring]

谢谢您

Thank you very much.

Btw, I care about accurate OOB's. I'd rather have an accurate OOB and figure out what I need to modify to make the scenario balanced, over having the current setup. The current setup imho I consider broken and I have merge 1936 CCIP into DHF as a major goal of mine for 1.04 since AI Japan just curbstomps AI China in 1937 and basically annexes CHI in 1938 in almost all of my games (with only a forced ai stupidity passiveness saving AI CHI as AI Japan is scripted to not advance at all even though the provinces next to it have 0 troops due to CHI having almost no troops left as a result of encirclements)

你有1914-1933年的中国OOB吗？

Do you have OOB's for 1914-1933?

______________

Re: CORE Mod, I thought they just ported over parts of CCIP for ARMA? Maybe I'm wrong, someone feel free to correct me. If I'm wrong, I'll download the mod to look at what they changed. I think I did already before and was disappointed, which was why I worked on CCIP for DH.

yes,I have enough data.I had see 1914 China run.

 

[Kesselring]

Yesssss this is really interesting! thank you! One question though. Could you tell us where each unit was located or had its headquarters in the case of the Mongolian and Tibetan Armies please?

I think more information maybe find in Soviet Union's File, there are no more chinese information about Mongolian Army.
I have more information about Tibetan Army,I'll work them out with google's help...

 

[Kesselring]

The Chinese OOB is more about making the game work than being realistic I think.

IRL the Chinese army was very ineffective for its size for political, organisational and economic reasons. This isn't well modeled by the game. On the other hand we don't want to go back to HoI2 where China is ahistorically annexed in 1938 every game. So what we have now is an awkward but decent compromise.

sorry,I can just understand a little

 

[Kesselring]

If you want to see the Chinese army modelled effectively (and the entire Sino-Japanese War for that matter) check out the CORE mod for AoD. In terms of both historical accuracy and gameplay it's streets ahead of anything else going round. I'm sure they'd welcome your information there, nexus.

yes, I think CORE is good ,but I only play its GER
I also think TRP is good,and I see they are lack of sources,so I write this thread
I'm waiting for E3,I don't like DH‘s China map very much,the map make it impossible for China mod

 

[Faulty]

Shouldn't the Chinese army doing badly be represented with poorer doctrines? If CHI started without manpower focus doctrine in the 1936 scenario, that would be 30 less organisation. If it lost its starting blueprint for People's army doctrine as well that would slow it down even more and let Japan push deep even against a large Chinese army. I've mentioned it previously but I think Japan also shouldn't release China-Nanjing (at least until the war is over) because it stops Japan suffering from overburdened transport capacity and rebellions (and the possibility of running out of supplies on the mainland if America can kill enough convoy transports).

Those together would seem to make things more realistic and have better gameplay

 

[Kesselring]

Shouldn't the Chinese army doing badly be represented with poorer doctrines? If CHI started without manpower focus doctrine in the 1936 scenario, that would be 30 less organisation. If it lost its starting blueprint for People's army doctrine as well that would slow it down even more and let Japan push deep even against a large Chinese army. I've mentioned it previously but I think Japan also shouldn't release China-Nanjing (at least until the war is over) because it stops Japan suffering from overburdened transport capacity and rebellions (and the possibility of running out of supplies on the mainland if America can kill enough convoy transports).

Those together would seem to make things more realistic and have better gameplay

I think the CHI army should bigger and weaker,but CHI's IC can only provide part supply,
JAP army’s 17 A level Divisions can be stronger,and JAP need puppet army to keep front

 

[Epaminondas]

Re: CORE Mod, I thought they just ported over parts of CCIP for ARMA? Maybe I'm wrong, someone feel free to correct me. If I'm wrong, I'll download the mod to look at what they changed. I think I did already before and was disappointed, which was why I worked on CCIP for DH.

Since I'm largely uninformed on the Chinese OoB myself I can't personally vouch for the accuracy of the CORE version. But I can say that the China theatre has been a major focus of redevelopment for a long time, that much has changed over the last two versions, and that given their fetish for historical accuracy I'd be amazed if they'd stuck with a port from Arma. I know that a lot of work was put into the OoB and that, for instance, Bestmajor's monumental efforts in compiling accurate leader csvs has been used in the latest version. I'm playing through my first run at 6.1 at the moment, so I'll take the opportunity to compare nexus' data with what shows up there and get back to you.

 

[Kesselring]

CHI Navy（1936-1937）：
1st Fleet
new CL：Ninghai（宁海）、Pinghai（平海）
break and old DD：Datong（大同）、Ziqiang（自强）
CL：Yixian（逸仙）
old CL：Hairong（海容）、Haichou（海筹）
GB：Yongjian（永健）、Yongji（永绩）、Zhongshan（中山）、Jiankang（建康）
TP：Dingan（定安）、Kean（克安）

2nd Fleet
Shallow GB：Minquan（民权）、Minsheng（民生）、Xianning（咸宁）、Chutong（楚同）、Chutai（楚泰）、Chuyou（楚有）、Chuguan（楚观）、Chuqian（楚谦）、Jiangyuan（江元）、Jiangzhen（江贞）、Jiangkun（江鲲）、Jiangxi（江犀）
TB：Hupeng（湖鹏）、Hue（湖鹗）、Huying（湖鹰）、Hucui（湖隼）

training Fleet
CL：Yingrui（应瑞）、Tongji（通济）

3rd Fleet
AV：Zhenhai（镇海）
old DD：Tongan（同安）
GB：Yongxiang（永翔）、Chuyu（楚豫）、Jiangli（江利）
TP：Dinghai（定海）

Guangdong Coastal defense Fleet（4th Fleet）
GB：Haizhou（海周）、Haihu（海虎）
TP：Hairui（海瑞）、Fuan（福安）
CL：Zhaohe（肇和）
Shallow GB：Haiqiang（海强）、Haiji（海继）、Jiangda（江大）、Jianggong（江巩）、Guangjin（广金）、Guangcheng（广澄）、Anbei（安北）、Fengwu（舞凤）、Jianru（坚如）、Zhixin（执信）、Hushan（湖山）、Guanghua（光华）、Zhili（智利）、Jinma（金马）、Feipeng（飞鹏）、Jiangcheng（江澄）、Jiangping（江平）、Pingxi（平西）、Jingdong（靖东）、Guangan（广安）、Guangyuan（广原）、Lichen（利琛）、Suijiang（浽江）、Haiou（海鸥）、Zhujiang（珠江）、Xixing（西兴）、Zhongyuan（仲元）、Zhongkai（仲凯）、Xinsongjiang（新松江）
TB：S-1（快艇一号）、S-2（快艇二号）、S-3（快艇三号）、S-4（快艇四号）

The electric detonators School speedboat Float
TB：Wen-42（文42）、Wen-88（文88）、Wen-93（文93）、Shi-34（史34）、Shi-102（史102）、Shi-181（史181）、Yue-22（岳22）、Yue-253(岳253）、Yue-371（岳371）
GB：Haijing（海静）
old GB：Junhe（钧和）、Cedian（策电）、Boxian（伯先）
TP：Tongxin（同心）、Tongde（同德）
Training ship：Ziyouzhongguo/Freedom China（自由中国）

 

[Lord Rommel]

yes, I think CORE is good ,but I only play its GER
I also think TRP is good,and I see they are lack of sources,so I write this thread
I'm waiting for E3,I don't like DH‘s China map very much,the map make it impossible for China mod

Jeah. We are happy about all information we can find.
I think our biggest problem is the OOB of the chines army.
Do u have more details about this army?

Rommel, TRP.

Nice thread

 

[Kesselring]

CYN（滇系军阀）
it can be divide into two:Yunnan and Xikang,there are no relationship between them

Xikang（西康）with Liu Wenhui（刘文辉）：


1936:
24C 10000men
-136D 1B(1R,2R)2B(3R,4R)
-137D 3B(5R,6R)4B(7R,8R)
-138D 5B(9R,10R)6B(11R,12R)
-24Corps B（1R,2R,3R）

1938:
24C
-136D
-137D
-IR

Provincial Security Group（省保安团） 6000 men
1SR,2SR,3SR,Ind SR

 

[Kesselring]

Yunnan（云南）with Long Yun（龙云）
Dianjun（Yunnan Army）‘The Crack Force Of Country’

1936：
10 Route Army
-I1B（1R,2R,3R）
-I2B（4R,5R,6R）
-I3B（7R,8R,9R）
-I5B（10R,11R,12R）
-I7B（13R,14R,15R）
-I9B（16R,17R,18R）
（maybe I21,22,23,24,30,33B)

1937:
60C 40000men
-182D（old I1,2B） 539B（1077R,1078R）540B（1079R,1080R）
-183D（old I3,5B） 541B（1081R,1082R）542B（1083R,1084R）
-184D（old I7,9B） 543B（1085R,1086R）544B（1087R,1088R）

1938 add：
58C 30000men
-N10D 1B(1R,2R)2B(3R,4R)
-N11D 1B(1R,2R)2B(3R,4R)
-N12D 1B(1R,2R)2B(3R,4R)

N3C
1A
P18D（1R,2R,3R）
P19D（1R,2R,3R）
P20D（1R,2R,3R）
P21D（1R,2R,3R）
P22D（1R,2R,3R）
P23D（1R,2R,3R）
（each R about 1500-2300men）

1945 add：
93C
-P18D（1R,2R,3R）
-P20D（1R,2R,3R）
-P22D（1R,2R,3R）
-Special R