Only Xenophobes can Purge in 1.5?

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The Founder

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I do hope there's another way because for RP reasons I don't want to have to start my POPS in caste or leave them that way. Other species will be fine as they rightfully deserve. Switching them to Authoritarian because it fits them so well.
That might drag you towards Xenophobia, however.
Slaves in general Increase Authoritarian Atraction for Non-Slaves. Individualist for Slaves.
But with alien it instead produce Xenophobe atraction for Non-Slaves, of different species. Might depend on if the other species can be enslaved as well.
 

Drakonn

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That might drag you towards Xenophobia, however.
Slaves in general Increase Authoritarian Atraction for Non-Slaves. Individualist for Slaves.
But with alien it instead produce Xenophobe atraction for Non-Slaves, of different species. Might depend on if the other species can be enslaved as well.

I see nothing wrong with that however. Though losing my original ethics altogether could be something I wouldn't want. Presently, I like the idea of actions/playstyles increasing attraction to certain ethics (for now, though the slaves becoming Egalitarian might be a problem but we'll see). Gives me a great idea to have them stay Authoritarian/Militarist but drift towards Xenophobia the more they enslave aliens.

If I started Authoritarian/Militarist and then drifted to Xenophobes maybe it would just be like a third ethos pick. Could be good with that.

Huh, I never thought about the attraction toward Authoritarian NOT being a thing because it would instead be Xenophobia if only enslaving aliens. Feel like it should increase both. Might complicate how I'm wanting to play them depending on how it all works together. Wouldn't like to lose Authoritarian to that.

Hoping there's not a disconnect between how I'm wanting these guys to go and the how the game mechanics will actually work. I think it should all settle nicely for all three of those ethos at least. Need to figure out other Authoritarian attraction modifiers.

Need more details aghh! Ha!
 

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I see nothing wrong with that however. Though losing my original ethics altogether could be something I wouldn't want. Presently, I like the idea of actions/playstyles increasing attraction to certain ethics (for now, though the slaves becoming Egalitarian might be a problem but we'll see). Gives me a great idea to have them stay Authoritarian/Militarist but drift towards Xenophobia the more they enslave aliens.
I like the whole Ethis drift by action mechanic too. Just wanted to give you a headsup that there might be some odd side effects.

Indeed I recently realised that with Ethos Drift the Commonwealth of Man would make a pretty decent Space Rome.
They might start out as Fanatic Militarist and Xenophobe (like the Romans). But that might get lost as they integrate aliens into thier armies (like it did for the Romans).

Hoping there's not a disconnect between how I'm wanting these guys to go and the how the game mechanics will actually work. I think it should all settle nicely for all three of those ethos at least. Need to figure out other Authoritarian attraction modifiers.

Need more details aghh! Ha!
Some things I did saw in the Livestream (from the Authoritarian Faction) was:
Monarchinc Government
Slaves
Having a certain minimum amount of Armies per planet (6+ on planets with 6+ pops). Wich is kind of nessesary with slaves anyway.
I asume that most things that make the Authoritarian Faction happy will also increase Authoritarian Atraction

I would guess a "true Authoritarian" would have everyone under the same kind of Slavery. Or no slavery at all.
I actually did start a "Collectivist, Fanatic Xenophile" Empire in a recent game. That is one of the odder ways to get a "Hegemonic Imperialist" AI type. The idea was either to enslave everyone equally. Or nobody at all. Failed a bit due to liberation not opening borders (Authoritarian).
 

Drakonn

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I like the whole Ethis drift by action mechanic too. Just wanted to give you a headsup that there might be some odd side effects.

Indeed I recently realised that with Ethos Drift the Commonwealth of Man would make a pretty decent Space Rome.
They might start out as Fanatic Militarist and Xenophobe (like the Romans). But that might get lost as they integrate aliens into thier armies (like it did for the Romans).


Some things I did saw in the Livestream (from the Authoritarian Faction) was:
Monarchinc Government
Slaves
Having a certain minimum amount of Armies per planet (6+ on planets with 6+ pops). Wich is kind of nessesary with slaves anyway.
I asume that most things that make the Authoritarian Faction happy will also increase Authoritarian Atraction

I would guess a "true Authoritarian" would have everyone under the same kind of Slavery. Or no slavery at all.
I actually did start a "Collectivist, Fanatic Xenophile" Empire in a recent game. That is one of the odder ways to get a "Hegemonic Imperialist" AI type. The idea was either to enslave everyone equally. Or nobody at all. Failed a bit due to liberation not opening borders (Authoritarian).

Definitely appreciate it as I didn't think about some things

Oh, I'll have to try Commonwealth once the update hits because that sounds like a very interesting and fun game.

Hmm, good good. Seems like I would keep the 3 Ethos I wanted then (or 2 and gravitate towards one) so yay.

Got to look at the AI again as I didn't realize that was a valid combination. I love making custom races centered around the AI types they have. Can't wait for the updated changes to them in the Update.
 

I am Sovereign

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I hope I will be able to send alien pops into death camps without being xenophobe.
My space fascists dont kill them becasue they hate them...just because it is necessary for the greater good.
We will never forget their sacrifice for our space union thats for sure! They might die but become immortal heroes of the empire!


But srsly we needed those minerals...and the living room for other aliens who just happen to have a better genepool ;D.
We dont hate all xeno DNA we just hate bad Xeno DNA and with our bad research rate we have no time to wait till we can finish the biological ascension path ;).
 
Last edited:

pheonicia

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Until now Xenophobe were bland, I mean the only advantage of xenophobe over authoritarian was that you had bigger border, that's it. I know people will be pissed not to be able to displace an alien species that is beyond useless when playing as a Xenophile... But let's face it, you're playing the space hippies that love every species for who they are. Even the Venerable non adaptive weak deviant species should be given a chance in your empire :p.

Not if I sit on their planets one by one from orbit and exterminate their species. Just have to make sure that I demand 100 warscore from their allies so as to not accidentally win the war too soon.

Edit: Admittedly, they'd be great candidates for genetic or synthetic ascension.
 

Kamakaze Panda

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Not sure if this has been suggested by anyone in the thread, but I think a possible reworking of what ethics allow what form of purge would be very useful in 1.5

For example, I believe Militarists should have limited abilities to displace or purge undesirable pops and I'd go as far as to say that certain forms of purging should be locked into fanatic ethic types. i.e a fanatic Xenophobe can basically do anything to any Xeno Pop, the natural draw back of which is using two ethic points and also likely making any diplomacy with xenos impossible. By the same logic, Fanatic Authoritarians should be able to purge, work pops to death, displace etc. Though I'd reserve livestock and processing for Fanatic Xenophobes, or Xenophobes depending on the balance.

For regular Ethics, I'd give Authoritarians the ability to displace pops or work them to death, perhaps to directly purge, but those details can be worked out. I'd give Militarists the ability to displace, again depending on balance this could easily be adjusted and Fanatic Militarists the ability to purge, labour camps and displace. While it seems unlikely to be possible, it would be interesting if some of these could also then be tied into having a combination of ethics, such as for example, if you are Xenophobic, fanatic Militarists you could be given the ability to use any form of purge, despite lacking the fanatic Xenophobe trait.

It would be interesting to see if Authority could also work into this. I imagine that it's more difficult to purge pops with a democratic authority, though fanatic Xenophobe democracies should logically be fine with purging Xenos, but I'd go as far as saying that some of the more Totalitarian Empires should get more options for purging, but still get the malices for non-Xenophic, non-Authoritarian pops.

Perhaps they could try and work out a system which also allows you to purge certain ethics from your empires as well. For example, perhaps Xenophiles or Pacifists could be granted very limited abilities to displace or remove Fanatic Militarists or Fanatic Xenophobe pops or something similar, even if it goes against their core ethics, the Fanatics could be viewed as too great a threat and leaving them to threaten your other pops could be a greater evil than removing them.

Anyway all of this is just theoretical ramblings, and we'll see what the 1.5 system is when it comes out.
 

Diezy

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Purges and population control were more of the Collectivist/Authoritarian side of things, with Individualist/Egalitarian not allowing them.

I suspect certain gentle types of pop control might be available to all, like asking xenos to leave, and no refugees welcome, even if you're Egalitarian and Xenophobic. These two ethics were a combination that I dreaded to try, due to worries of uncontrollable xenophobia unhappiness spiralling out of control after annexing other species.

Though with Utopia, you can also give up Xenophobic or Egalitarian to better handle the situation.
 

The Founder

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Guys, this whole tread is running on a totally faulty premise. That anything will change with WHO can purge. Nothing in the Dev Diary said so.
Indeed Wiz twitter teaser showed that the policy option is not going anywhere. They will even be expanded to include more options (like only Displace purge or full purge options).
After you set the policy, you can decide for every species if you want to grant them Citizenship, want that specific species purged and how you want it purged.

Species Rights (Free Feature)
The big new feature we'll be talking about today is Species Rights. Previously, what rights your species had were controlled through a set of policies that could only discriminate between 'your founder species' and 'everyone else'. We felt that this was an area in need of more granularity, both to make playing a multispecies empire more interesting and also to create more of a sense of distinction between your pops. Thus, in Banks, it will now be possible to individually determine the rights and obligations of each species in your empire. In addition to setting rights for a species currently in your empire, you can also set rights for species outside your empire (for example granting species you would like to attract to your empire via migration Full Citizenship and a good living standard) and have a default set of rights that is applied to any species you have not specifically configured the rights for.
 

Foefaller

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It feels like it needs repeating.

Authoritarians will be able to displace, forcing unwanted pops to leave their planets

Xenophobes will also be able to displace, as well as classic purging and, with Utopia, various other means of purging.

Both can get rid of aliens they don't want, but only Xenophobes can do so by killing them.
 

AvalancheZ250

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What about non-xenophobic non-authoritarians? there needs to be some sort of method for those guys.
To be honest, I think anyone who's neither egalitarian nor xenophile should at very least be able to use displace or/and neutering.
Authoritarians, in addition to above, should also be able to use forced labor purge (the one where pops are worked to death).
Xenophobes, in addition to above, should be allowed to use extermination.
But only fanatic xenophobes should be able to use lifestock and food processing.
Basically this. I'm sure lots of just purge specific pops to get rid of troublesome factions and such, and it doesn't mean we want to purge the entire species, or chase the entire species out of our empire.

All authoritarian empires should be able to purge
All xenophobic empires should be able to eat xenos
Fanatic xenophobic empires should get a major bonus, but nothing new. Something like 100% increase purge time, and double food from eating xenos
 

BlackUmbrellas

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Basically this. I'm sure lots of just purge specific pops to get rid of troublesome factions and such, and it doesn't mean we want to purge the entire species, or chase the entire species out of our empire.

All authoritarian empires should be able to purge
All xenophobic empires should be able to eat xenos
Fanatic xenophobic empires should get a major bonus, but nothing new. Something like 100% increase purge time, and double food from eating xenos
Except purging is on a purely per-species basis now. That's a change that's been made and we'll have to live with it.
 

Avian Overlord

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Except purging is on a purely per-species basis now. That's a change that's been made and we'll have to live with it.
It's a necessary change. Authoritarian empires should have to worry about internal revolt, which old!purge makes irrelevant.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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It's a necessary change. Authoritarian empires should have to worry about internal revolt, which old!purge makes irrelevant.
Oh, I agree with you- but its an important aspect to understanding why Purging is specifically a Xenophobic thing and not something Authoritarians have access to. Per-species Purging policies make Purging a useless option for Authoritarians.
 

Avian Overlord

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I feel like something could enable purging pops on a planetary basis. "Cut this species's population in half" seems like something an evil empire should be able to do.
 

The Founder

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It feels like it needs repeating.

Authoritarians will be able to displace, forcing unwanted pops to leave their planets

Xenophobes will also be able to displace, as well as classic purging and, with Utopia, various other means of purging.

Both can get rid of aliens they don't want, but only Xenophobes can do so by killing them.
Please provide a source for these claims.

All I know is that the special Purge and Slavery types are locked in the Utopia DLC. Nothing about them being locked out by Ethos.
 

Foefaller

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Please provide a source for these claims.

All I know is that the special Purge and Slavery types are locked in the Utopia DLC. Nothing about them being locked out by Ethos.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/119136373

Right at the 16 minute mark, they're showing off Ethos. When they mouse over Authoritarian, tooltip says "Can Displace aliens" When they mouse over xenophobe, it says "Can Purge and Displace aliens."

None of the other ethos that they have shown (which is all of them as of the latest two) have either of those bonuses.