Only Xenophobes can Purge in 1.5?

[Connll]

Title.

While I am aware that there will be multiple ways to get rid of xenos and some other troublesome pops, I reason that, if I am going to forsake diplomacy due to commiting atrocities, then i´m going to do it in the fastest, most efficient way.

However, I saw a few posters mentioning that Authoritarins are no longer allowed to Purge xenos. Why? You can purge your own species, but not another?

 

[KonradKurze202]

You can purge your own species, but not another?

Actually purging and enslaving is done on a species by species basis, you can no longer purge or enslave one specific pop.

But to answer your question: As far as I know everyone can set a species to be purged. There will be repercussions for it, but I don't think Xenophobes have exclusive access to purges.

 

[Mackus]

Keep in mind this is just most recent info, and all is subject to change, but:
Xenophobes can purge by any means they want, including eating and displacing.
Non-xenophobic Authoritarians can only displace.

 

[smjjames]

Keep in mind this is just most recent info, and all is subject to change, but:
Xenophobes can purge by any means they want, including eating and displacing.
Non-xenophobic Authoritarians can only displace.

What about non-xenophobic non-authoritarians? there needs to be some sort of method for those guys.

 

[Mackus]

What about non-xenophobic non-authoritarians? there needs to be some sort of method for those guys.

There doesn't seem to be any.
I initially assumed they'd be capable to at least displace undesirable pops, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Mackus]

To be honest, I think anyone who's neither egalitarian nor xenophile should at very least be able to use displace or/and neutering.
Authoritarians, in addition to above, should also be able to use forced labor purge (the one where pops are worked to death).
Xenophobes, in addition to above, should be allowed to use extermination.
But only fanatic xenophobes should be able to use lifestock and food processing.

 

[GothicEmperor]

You know, I'm all for giving certain Ethics more options, but restricting entire play-styles (by hard mechanics, not just negative modifiers) to just one or two is maybe a bit too far into that direction.

 

[Esurnir]

You know, I think it make sense. Since the shift from pop to pop to species by species basis, you cannot just single out a particular region for extermination like an authoritarian regime stamping out rebellion. Take Syria, Syria would be a rebellion from a faction opposed to the authoritarian regime, the regime don't fight them by the systematic extermination of all syrian people, it'll stamp out -that faction- by spending influence in form of bombs on their cities, torture of dissident etc.

The Species right Purge option is literally "I want all english to pay for marmite, nuke their city, round them up and shoot them all. wherever they live."

It is a xenophobic kind of hatred, you target a specific portion of the population because of who they are not what their political leanings are.

 

[Esurnir]

Until now Xenophobe were bland, I mean the only advantage of xenophobe over authoritarian was that you had bigger border, that's it. I know people will be pissed not to be able to displace an alien species that is beyond useless when playing as a Xenophile... But let's face it, you're playing the space hippies that love every species for who they are. Even the Venerable non adaptive weak deviant species should be given a chance in your empire .

 

[Pyramid_Head]

For me the inability to have a species who can democratically vote for purging of other species or benevolent hiveminds, which abhors slavery is a perfect example of current flaw in Entics-Government interaction mechanics.

 

[Madzai]

So, another rails - no reason to play Xenophobe and NOT to be a monster.
And i was thinking: "How they going to add all those atrocities to diplomatic system and balance penalties?". The answer is - they wouldn't. Play Xenophobes and forget about diplo tab at all. Go eat some alien and shut up. Severely disappointed in such an approch.

 

[Mackus]

And i was thinking: "How they going to add all those atrocities to diplomatic system and balance penalties?". The answer is - they wouldn't. Play Xenophobes and forget about diplo tab at all. Go eat some alien and shut up. Severely disappointed in such an approch.

We already know, that some methods of getting rid of pops, such as displacement, will not not incur such high infamy as other. It probable, that various purging methods will anger other empires to varying extent. Neutering will probably be considered least outrageous, whereas processing will be considered most heinous.

So, another rails - no reason to play Xenophobe and NOT to be a monster.

I am not sure what are you talking about. Surely, there is nothing wrong with cleansing entire galaxy of filthy xenos ?

 

[Emraldis]

We already know, that some methods of getting rid of pops, such as displacement, will not not incur such high infamy as other. It probable, that various purging methods will anger other empires to varying extent. Neutering will probably be considered least outrageous, whereas processing will be considered most heinous.


I am not sure what are you talking about. Surely, there is nothing wrong with cleansing entire galaxy of filthy xenos ?

Or, you know, being a pacifist xenophobe who just doesn't want to interact with others...

 

[Pyramid_Head]

I already envision Xeno playthrough:
1. Do not adapt your staple laws(slavery, purge policies etc.)
2. Soldify your territory vs everpresent Federation Builders and other sources of eternal wars.
3. After stalling or beating back initial Democratic dogpile wars conquered population is neutered, to prevent overkill diplomalus.
4. After your strength will be sufficient you can adopt your laws that actually make you a Xenophobe and start purging or conquering as usual.
5. Same as before - diplomacy will not be available just as before because Paradox set in stone how Xenophobes should play.

It's early EUIV oncle again. You can play without quantity national idea. Also, no one is forcing you to play without army, you can do it all right.

 

[Foefaller]

So, another rails - no reason to play Xenophobe and NOT to be a monster.
And i was thinking: "How they going to add all those atrocities to diplomatic system and balance penalties?". The answer is - they wouldn't. Play Xenophobes and forget about diplo tab at all. Go eat some alien and shut up. Severely disappointed in such an approch.

I play a lot of Hard mode as Xenophobic empires, and on higher difficulties making sure that all your neighbors don't immediately despise you is very important for early survival, especially if the local advanced start empire is predisposed to hate your guts to begin with.

Even after you reach the point where you feel strong enough to show your true colors, being abreast of who hates who and finding those who are willing to make a NAP with you (even if it only lasts until they're next in line) can help in making sure you aren't dogpiled by all of your neighbors, especially if you get in a battle was close enough to weaken your navy and make you look vulnerable.

 

[Foefaller]

I already envision Xeno playthrough:
1. Do not adapt your staple laws(slavery, purge policies etc.)
2. Soldify your territory vs everpresent Federation Builders and other sources of eternal wars.
3. After stalling or beating back initial Democratic dogpile wars conquered population is neutered, to prevent overkill diplomalus.
4. After your strength will be sufficient you can adopt your laws that actually make you a Xenophobe and start purging or conquering as usual.
5. Same as before - diplomacy will not be available just as before because Paradox set in stone how Xenophobes should play.

It's early EUIV oncle again. You can play without quantity national idea. Also, no one is forcing you to play without army, you can do it all right.

Hopefully the softer forms of purging (Displacement/Nuetering) can be done without the current extreme malus so you can do Xenophobic things without shutting yourself entirely out of diplomacy.

Already fairly certain that is a thing that will exist for slavery. Even now in 1.4, the Xenophile Individualist Pacifist empire will not care at all that you have Xeno slavery as long as it's regulated Xeno Slavery.

EDIT: In any case, have you tried being a Xenophobe that doesn't purge all xenos? I can agree that being a xenophobe that only enslaves instead of purging xenos at the moment is not much different from a collectivist that doesn't enslave their own pops (other than being able to take a democratic government type) but you can do it and still not have everyone hate you.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Its not like you could purge people as anything except a xenophobe or collectivist beforehand- and the new mechanics make collectivist (now authoritarian) purges obsolete.

 

[Sportsmaster]

If most other empires can close their borders to certain classes of pops, or prioritize the flow of consumer goods (and *maybe* food) away from them, or disallow their settlement on core systems, or enact population controls... why should they be entitled to purging pops at all? Even if all forms of purging were not locked to xenophobes, there must be some xenophobe-only options available to distinguish them.

Also remember that factions will petition their empire according to their own ethics-based agendas, and ethics will be more flexible under the new faction system. It may be possible for empires who have conquered a repugnant species to take advantage of rising xenophobic sentiments among their pops.

Lastly, I should say that neutering / sterilization is definitely a worse fate than displacement. And to be frank, this overstated concern over features like enslavement and purging on this forum is clearly indicative of a fantastic ignorance about the history of slavery and genocide in real life. Just like in real life, it will be impossible to ignore marginalized peoples entirely, mostly because to remove each and every "undesirable" esp. on an individual basis is a terrible bureaucratic and administrative feat, requiring sustained supremacist zeal, resources, and labor. We can definitely attribute that to the xenophobes.

PS: Just like in real life, people can petition to withhold the extension of their own rights from others, regardless of legality or broader ethical concerns. I mean, hitler was elected into office! A xenophobic-egalitarian empire is definitely possible, and already achievable in Stellaris.

 

[wurmkrank]

For me the inability to have a species who can democratically vote for purging of other species or benevolent hiveminds, which abhors slavery is a perfect example of current flaw in Entics-Government interaction mechanics.

xenophobe/individualist has always been a thing.

 

[Pyramid_Head]

EDIT: In any case, have you tried being a Xenophobe that doesn't purge all xenos? I can agree that being a xenophobe that only enslaves instead of purging xenos at the moment is not much different from a collectivist that doesn't enslave their own pops (other than being able to take a democratic government type) but you can do it and still not have everyone hate you.

Not possible. Having them as subjects is ok but having them in your planets - no. Your pops will descent into miserable happiness and they will be in constant 0% happiness. It won't even be possible for roleplay. They won't produce anything so you have no option but to purge them.