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sersors

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I must confess that i am rather surprised by this news. Heavy warships(hexeres etc) was a major thing for diadochi kings and several big naval battle happen. Or what about Quinqueremes that played a major role in second Punic war. I was planning to play as an Athenian thalassocracy but with a CK2 approach of ships seems kind of lame...
Can we have some more infos regarding this issue?
 

Tisifoni12

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Quodremes and quinqueremes (penteres) would replace triremes during this era with biremes retained as messenger and scout vessels. Larger ships (hexeres and above) were few in number and used as flagships.
 

sersors

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What would be the difference except the number of rows?
I dont know if its possible but a system of ships and upgrades similar to EU4 would be more than decent.

Actually we are in the era of the breakthrough in ancient naval warfare since we have this new models of ships. Pliny the elder reports that Aristotle ascribed the invention of the quadrireme (Latin: quadriremis; Greek: τετρήρης, tetrērēs) to the Carthaginians. Although the exact date is unknown, it is most likely the type was developed in the latter half of the 4th century BC. Their first attested appearance is at the siege of Tyre by Alexander the great in 332 BC, and a few years later, they appear in the surviving naval lists of Athens. In the period after Alexander's death (323 BC), the quadrireme proved very popular: the Athenians made plans to build 200 of these ships, and 90 out of 240 ships of the fleet of Antigonus (306–301 BC) were "fours". Subsequently, the quadrireme was favoured as the main warship of the Rhodian navy, the sole professional naval force in the East med.
Last but not least, the first Punic war it was mostly a naval warfare that Romans had to adapt(corvus etc) to break the Carthaginian power.
 

Tisifoni12

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Progression in EU: Rome was a bit silly with a sequence of minor and probably spurious improvements; type I quidrireme to type II quidrireme . . .)

Developments were few, but dramatic; the introduction of the quinquereme, the corvus.

Fleets could be created relatively quickly by States with the resources; the Romans found a shipwrecked Carthaginian ship on a beach, back engineered it and built a fleet.

And a fleet in the wrong place at the wrong time could be destroyed by a storm.
 

Denkt

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The problem is what would be the purpose of having several different ships. There is no trade Power so there is no need for light ships. There is no need for specialized transports because you warships can transport.

Yes they could do a counter system with different warships but that do not necessarily make the naval warfare particular better or more interesting.

Stuff such as corvus is likely represented by innovations which improve your ships combat performance.
 

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According to wikipedia biremes, triremes and quinqueremes were all common in this timeline. The successor kingdoms built even bigger warships called polyremes. Maybe make different sizes of galleys?
 
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Denkt

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According to wikipedia quinqueremes, triremes and biremes were all common in this timeline. The successor kingdoms built even bigger warships called polyremes. Maybe make different sizes of galleys?
It is not how it work. The bigger ships was not an upgrade as they had different purposes. Rome actaully used smaller ships then they dominated the seas because they are cheaper and more useful for pirate huniting.
 

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Well according to wikipedia the trireme become out of use in 3th century BC and was followed by the quinquereme. The polyremes were massive ships up to ten banks of oars(the Quinquereme had three banks of oars with rowers two-two-one going up from the waterline, see the last link below). During Pax Romana the Romans controlled the whole Mediterranea and there was no need of polyremes. The naval actions became mostly convoy duties, patrolling and anti-piracy action, which meant preferring smaller, faster, more maneuverable vessels like the bireme. I think there should be possibility of building cheap, middle and very expensive gigantic ships.

P.S
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...essarakonteres.jpg/1280px-Tessarakonteres.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tessarakonteres

Well that's a huge boat...

http://www.hellenicaworld.com/Greece/Technology/en/GiantShips.html
 
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The small ships (bireme) should be faster while bigger ships (trireme, quinquereme,polyreme) should be better at sieging cities and naval combat. Therefore smaller ships are better at hunting pirates because they are faster and cheaper to maintain/build. They should be also better in naval combat in rough waters like in the North (Britannia, North Sea etc.) Building small ships shoud take less time, middle seized a ''normal'' time and polyremes long time. (same principle with transport of troops too)

P.S Here is a nice picture of a Roman Liburna (pirates should use them).
 
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Antediluvian Monster

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For what it's worth, Romans considered vessels from the bireme liburnians to the quadriremes to be minor warships, only quinqueremes and above were capital ships (maioris formae). So technically we have only light ships at the moment, it's the heavy ships that are missing from the game. :p

Also, none of these ships are considered to have had more than three banks of oars these days due to practical limitations. They added more oarsmen per oar instead (the biremes and triremes had only one per oar, as can be seen in Ben Hur's ramming speed scene).
 
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The chronology according to the German wikipedia:

Age of the monere (ca. 1200-750 B.C.)

Age of the bireme (ca. 750-500 BC)

Age of the trireme(ca. 500-400 B.C.)

Age of polyreme (400-31 BC)

Age of the liburne (31 BC to ca. mid 4th century AD)

About Polyremes and the Diadoche (translated with Deepl):

The Diadoche Ptolemaios I. Soter of Egypt got most of Alexander's fleet. Antigonos I Monophthalmos the One-Eyed and his son Demetrios I Poliorketes began building polyers and triggered the largest maritime arms race of antiquity. Both built seven to thirteen ranked ships, later fifteen and sixteen ranked ships to break Ptolemy's naval rule in the eastern Mediterranean. Lysimachos built comparable ships.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiffe_der_Antike
 
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I have wondered how this big ships looked. A trireme was 35 m long. A quinquereme was 45 m long.
A Hexareme was 56 m long. (the Hexareme seems to be the widely used ''big'' ship). A decere was 71 m long and 20 m wide. (normal width was 5m) The data is from the German wikipedia.
 

Tisifoni12

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According to wikipedia biremes, triremes and quinqueremes were all common in this timeline. The successor kingdoms built even bigger warships called polyremes. Maybe make different sizes of galleys?
Biremes were retained as courier vessels and for scouting. Triremes I suspect would be retained by lesser powers with limited resources. 'Quods and Quins' were the main warships of the major powers and larger vessels were used as flag ships (perhaps one ship in fifty or a hundred).
 

Denkt

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If there was more than one ship type we would have some hint for it. Even the resource Wood only mention triremes which strongly Points towards there is only one ship type.
 

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Not sure it's because of an early stage but of course especially Ptolemy should start with a decent fleet unlike Johans in stream with no fleet at all. I guess all the trading powers/greek states (Carthago, Syracuse, Athens, Etruria) should also have a navy at the start.
 
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Not sure it's because of an early stage but of course especially Ptolemy should start with a decent fleet unlike Johans in stream with no fleet at all. I guess all the trading powers/greek states (Carthago, Syracuse, Athens, Etruria) should also have a navy at the start.

Hadn't Ptolemy just lost his fleet at the Battle of Salamis?