Only neighbouring duchies should be assimilated by kingdoms!

[Darrigan]

As the title says: I think only neighbouring duchies should be able to be affected by de jure drift. In my currently game the duchy of Hollandhas become a de jure part of Bohemia. What's wrong with that, you think?Well, recently the Golden Horde invaded the HRE to conquer Bohemia. They succeeded. Right now the Mongols own Bohemia, which is fine with me, but they also have Holland as an island in the centre of (what is left of) the Catholic world.

This seems pretty unrealistic to me. De jure duchies far away from the core of the kingdom messes up not only the Mongol invasion CB, but also crusades and other CBs that target specific kingdoms.

An other solution light be to add another map mode in which never changes the composition of 'kingdoms' (or maybe they should be called regions). But that might make it all very complicated.

EDIT: Sorry for the typos. It's not easy to write on the forum when iPhone's autocorrect constantly harasses you.

 

[Dracko81]

How would you handle overseas duchies with this change? Never allowed to de jure drift?

Drifting is fine, Bohemia considered that duchy as theirs as did everyone else within europe.

Making a different map with definate borders, would not be an issue.

 

[Darrigan]

Yes, that's true. But I doubt everyone in Europe will consider that duchy as Mongol territory.

 

[Jephery]

De Jure drift should only affect Crown Laws and not Invansion CBs.

Like, if the Fatimids blob the Middle East, and you win a Crusade for Egypt, you'll get everything the Fatimids have absorbed into Egypt, usually the entirety of Jerusalem and Arabia.

One time the King of Bohemia become HRE and absorbed all of the HRE into Bohemia.

I turn off De Jure drift because its really broken in this fashion.

 

[Mixxer5]

I do agree (with OP not with spam above me ) but not completely. Firstly- assimilation should be faster. 50 years at best, because after this time no one (or almost no one) will be alive to remember region under rule of other nation. Also, if some Duchy is out of de jure kingdom, rotating between other nations- it should become "no mans land". Next- playing as Byzantium (it's empire but same thing- just bigger scale) I don't want to mess with Seljuks prematurely so I conquer Levant without some provinces. Than I conquer Eqypt. So should I wait until I conquer this one or two provinces from Seljuks, before assimilating Egypt?

 

[Ruwaard]

Shorter? hmm if anything I'd say longer, for me 100 years seems too short; the Estates really valued their traditional rights and privileges. In general though there is the issue that IMHO only a timer is much too few. Furthermore I agree with the OP.

Instead I suggest that the de jure assimilation timer results in de jure transfer decision, which will start a de jure transfer event. If a de jure transfer were to happen, then the estates of that particular duchy and actually kingdom too should vote on it; no duchy should switch de jure lieges, if they dislike their current de facto liege.

 

[RustyTurban]

How do I turn off de-jure drift?

 

[Vinroke]

search for it in defines.lua and change it

	DE_JURE_ASSIMILATION_YEARS = 400,

 

[Ruwaard]

I don't know how to turn it off completely, but you can set the period it takes longer than the period covered by the game in the defines.lua file.
EDIT: Vinroke beat me to it.

 

[Mixxer5]

Shorter? hmm if anything I'd say longer, for me 100 years seems too short; the Estates really valued their traditional rights and privileges. In general though there is the issue that IMHO only a timer is much too few. Furthermore I agree with the OP.

Instead I suggest that the de jure assimilation timer results in de jure transfer decision, which will start a de jure transfer event. If a de jure transfer were to happen, then the estates of that particular duchy and actually kingdom too should vote on it; no duchy should switch de jure lieges, if they dislike their current de facto liege.

Considering how short time frame is (400 years or something), 4 de jure drifts can happen (at best). I do agree that nobles liked their rights but if no one actually remember about it... In such case we should've Lotharingia, Visigoth realm and few others. And most of players change vassals to those with their own culture rather than keep old ones. So any voting won't work.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Dejure drift would make a little more sense if there was some rule that a drifting duchy must either border the kingdom into which it drifts, or another duchy which is drifting into the same kingdom. Or be separated from the kingdom by only one sea zone. And when the 100 year (or whatever it is) timer is over, it actually only completes the drift if it now neighbours the kingdom. I.e. a duchy that does not directly border the kingdom could have the timer tick up until 100 years are complete, but it would only flip into the kingdom once the duchies between itself and the kingdom have flipped.

Then you would get nicer maps, and it would make more sense from a history standpoint - Holland would only drift into Bohemia, if everything in between was drifting in the same direction, and it would only join once there's a continuous line of Bohemian de-jure territory up to Holland.

 

[Darrigan]

Dejure drift would make a little more sense if there was some rule that a drifting duchy must either border the kingdom into which it drifts, or another duchy which is drifting into the same kingdom. Or be separated from the kingdom by only one sea zone. And when the 100 year (or whatever it is) timer is over, it actually only completes the drift if it now neighbours the kingdom. I.e. a duchy that does not directly border the kingdom could have the timer tick up until 100 years are complete, but it would only flip into the kingdom once the duchies between itself and the kingdom have flipped.

Then you would get nicer maps, and it would make more sense from a history standpoint - Holland would only drift into Bohemia, if everything in between was drifting in the same direction, and it would only join once there's a continuous line of Bohemian de-jure territory up to Holland.

Thumbs up. I like that!

 

[Ols]

Thumbs up. I like that!

I agree. It would certainly stop really weird kingdoms forming. On top of this, I'd like to see kingdoms like the Spanish ones drift faster into each other (Galicia should break into Portugal and Leon faster) and I'd like to see kingdoms such as Aquitaine completely merge into France once a majority of the duchies have done so. It looks a bit odd when only Toulouse is de jure Aquitaine.

 

[imperium3]

Dejure drift would make a little more sense if there was some rule that a drifting duchy must either border the kingdom into which it drifts, or another duchy which is drifting into the same kingdom. Or be separated from the kingdom by only one sea zone. And when the 100 year (or whatever it is) timer is over, it actually only completes the drift if it now neighbours the kingdom. I.e. a duchy that does not directly border the kingdom could have the timer tick up until 100 years are complete, but it would only flip into the kingdom once the duchies between itself and the kingdom have flipped.

Then you would get nicer maps, and it would make more sense from a history standpoint - Holland would only drift into Bohemia, if everything in between was drifting in the same direction, and it would only join once there's a continuous line of Bohemian de-jure territory up to Holland.

Would you count a distance of one sea province "adjacent" for this purpose? So England can assimilate Normandy, and Denmark can expand into Sweden, etc...

 

[Yxklyx]

Would you count a distance of one sea province "adjacent" for this purpose? So England can assimilate Normandy, and Denmark can expand into Sweden, etc...

Don't Kingdoms require to be adjacent to drift towards an Empire - seems like an oversight that Duchies don't.

 

[Ols]

They don't. I've had a really patchy mess of kingdoms drifting into the Roman Empire.

 

[Ruwaard]

Considering how short time frame is (400 years or something), 4 de jure drifts can happen (at best). I do agree that nobles liked their rights but if no one actually remember about it... In such case we should've Lotharingia, Visigoth realm and few others. And most of players change vassals to those with their own culture rather than keep old ones. So any voting won't work.

I don't think we'll be able to agree on right period for this feature to happen. You're underestimating the ability of the Estates (Nobility, Clergy and Burghers) to remember their privileges, in fact it was not uncommon that the Estates demanded from their monarch, that he (or she) would uphold the traditional rights of the Estates and the traditions of the land (county, duchy, kingdom etc.) in order to be able to inherit.

I disagree, that voting wouldn't work, firstly it is only available after the ''de jure drift period'' and secondly the Estates of the duchy and the Estates General or Parliament of the realm should vote on this matter. More concrete for the realm it would probably be the direct vassals, but for the duchy it should be all vassals (so counts and barons). Vassals who dislike you should vote against it, some should value traditions too, but for some it would mean legitimizing the real situation. Regarding the last two, certain traits should affect this and thus their should be some randomness.
Besides changing vassals gives a relation malus.

 

[Zireael]

Would you count a distance of one sea province "adjacent" for this purpose? So England can assimilate Normandy, and Denmark can expand into Sweden, etc...

I would. In general, the OP's idea seems brilliant!

 

[Dracko81]

I would. In general, the OP's idea seems brilliant!

What about Iceland?

 

[MasterOfGrey]

Dejure drift would make a little more sense if there was some rule that a drifting duchy must either border the kingdom into which it drifts, or another duchy which is drifting into the same kingdom. Or be separated from the kingdom by only one sea zone. And when the 100 year (or whatever it is) timer is over, it actually only completes the drift if it now neighbours the kingdom. I.e. a duchy that does not directly border the kingdom could have the timer tick up until 100 years are complete, but it would only flip into the kingdom once the duchies between itself and the kingdom have flipped.

Then you would get nicer maps, and it would make more sense from a history standpoint - Holland would only drift into Bohemia, if everything in between was drifting in the same direction, and it would only join once there's a continuous line of Bohemian de-jure territory up to Holland.

I too am in support of this idea.