One way trams on wrong side of road

[ghostbirdofprey]

To start off, given that most countries drive on the right including the one I live in, I will be discussing this topic from that assumption. Normally I would discuss roads from an inside vs outside lane perspective, but that isn't (very) applicable from the standpoint of one-way roads. Given the above mention of road direction, the inside lane is on the left and the outside lane is on the right.
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Anyways, tram tracks on one way roads are on the wrong side. On two way roads, the tracks are on the left side, though it can complicate cross traffic (left hand) turns, overall, it keeps the train out of the flow of normal traffic.

This is the first major problem with putting tram tracks on the right hand side of a one-way street. The simulation prefers to use the right lane in most cases due to how it is designed, which causes the tram tracks to become filled up with a large number of cars, partially defeating the purpose of having a tram there in the first place (since mass transit is supposed to help reduce traffic and, thus, reduce traffic conflicts amongst other reasons). it slows traffic by having more vehicles in the same lane, and it slows trams by having them blocked by vehicles, making the whole system less efficient. If vehicles were straight up banned from tram tracks on such roads, it would also mean right hand turns would become cross traffic turns, again, decreasing road efficiency. With trams on the left side of one way roads, the simulation would by its nature separate vehicular and tram traffic, and reduce conflicts even without specifically preventing cars from driving on tracks, and it would also more easily allow for a straight up prohibition of vehicles on tram tracks.

it also causes intersection problems. Given two way streets have the trams on the inside (left) lane, when a one way road with tram tracks intersects, the tracks have to cross lanes in the intersection which adds additional points of traffic conflict, and, like with the tracks being cluttered with cars, tram efficiency is reduced by trying to merge into a driven lane.

An additional problem is that you can have a bus stop and tram stop across from each other since the bus requires the right lane which is being taken up by the tram stop where you can have them on larger roads since the lanes are separated.


I'm not entirely sure why it was decided to put trams on the right side of one way roads rather than the left, and in doing so violates the majority of traffic conventions, but it seems like a terrible idea, and really should be rectified.

 

[Sotrax]

The whole tram system is a mess. I wrote it already on reddit but I will formulate my thoughts again.

Tram rails that force switches at crossings, even if no line will turn and no matter how acute the angle is.
Thats another point: The lack of acute angles while building a road in Cities:Skylines makes it very diffucult to build a rudimentary realistic network, since trams should always run as straight as possible. In real life a tram would simply derail on many points in this network.
On two lane roads, as mentioned above, the tram station is on the right side and will force a bus bulb. There is no sense that a bus can't stop at this BUS BULB, what makes an extensive and efficient transport system impossible.
The overhead wire are just cosmetic, but the implementation on crossings and in curves are so ridiculous, it wouldn't be much work to bent it two or three times more.
The way they run on the middle lane is .. idiotic. Maybe there are places on earth that have trams running this way, but I call myself a transport expert and I never saw it this way. An ugly slim concrete strip, way to small, with a simple sign and then you call this a station. The majority of trams doesn't run on the outer left lane of a street, they run on a extra rail track devided to the rest of the lanes, leaving space for stations and a safe enviroment for passengers. Also, through this implementation you force doors on the left side of the tram. But at least in middle to east europe one-way-trams with only doos on the right side are the most common ones.
Which leads to the next, so why are we using two-way-trams but can't build a dead-end-station to switch the direction?
The lack of roads in the vanilla version of Cities Skylines is a huge limit to the players creativity. But the lack of tram-roads is more than disappointing. The biggest Mod for streets is the Network Extensions Mod, these guys are great, but they stated that they won't do tram roads. So I doubt that we will ever see other and new tram roads. Modders can't solve everything.
So we will be stuck with two-way-trams forever. (CO, just implement bigger and wider streets or make everything as adjustable like in Cim! Or give us the tool to create own streets in the asset editor that we can use ingame, a little bit like Streetmix!)
And last but not least: The bug in the asset editor that doesn't let the modders create trams with trailers or bents.

All in all I hate how careless and unloving they were implented. But I love them, because of trams. But it is sad to see how the great potential was gambled away. My hype tram derailed.

 

[Synthtronic]

@Sotrax
Totally agree with you.
CO, have a look to Train Fever and you can see how catenary looks like good at crossings and curves.

 

[Sotrax]

Train Fever is indeed a good example for good visuals, since their implemention of a tram is great. The tram moves like a real tram, always follows the rails (not like in C:S where trams glich their way across the curve.) Train Fever let you .. feel .. the train by just looking at it. Well, the focus of train fever is another and I don't expect Cities Skylines to be as detailed as TF. But they show that it's possible to implement them properly. TrainFever indeed has other problems, but it looks good!

 

[Michaelschort]

The best way to do it would be to make tram and Subway the same. It would be so cool if Trams could just go from their Tunnel into a Metro Tunnel and vice versa. If there would be a template from collossal Order for a Tramstation, the tram would not need to use a loop and could use it as a dead-end station.

 

[Keegs]

The problem is CO felt it was satisfactory to limit Trams to a very select few roads instead of implementing a tool to let you select which lanes to add tram tracks too like they had in their previous CIM games. Quite disappointed.

 

[ghostbirdofprey]

The way they run on the middle lane is .. idiotic. Maybe there are places on earth that have trams running this way, but I call myself a transport expert and I never saw it this way. An ugly slim concrete strip, way to small, with a simple sign and then you call this a station. The majority of trams doesn't run on the outer left lane of a street, they run on a extra rail track devided to the rest of the lanes, leaving space for stations and a safe enviroment for passengers. Also, through this implementation you force doors on the left side of the tram. But at least in middle to east europe one-way-trams with only doos on the right side are the most common ones.

Actually street running is fairly common, though in plenty of cases the track is raised slightly or separated with a concrete barrier at about curb height, if you look closely, the tracks in C:S are actually slightly lower than the rest of the road.
Median stations are also fairly common, though admittedly, there's often more than just a sign there. Even if it's an unusual configuration in parts of Europe, it isn't unusual in general.

Which leads to the next, so why are we using two-way-trams but can't build a dead-end-station to switch the direction?

The inability for trams, especially ones that are depicted as two-way trams, to reverse at the end of the line instead requiring a loopback is definitely a MAJOR oversight.

The lack of roads in the vanilla version of Cities Skylines is a huge limit to the players creativity. But the lack of tram-roads is more than disappointing. The biggest Mod for streets is the Network Extensions Mod, these guys are great, but they stated that they won't do tram roads.

That's almost certainly there to reduce clutter, and you can't blame CO for a mod team not wanting to work on something.

The best way to do it would be to make tram and Subway the same. It would be so cool if Trams could just go from their Tunnel into a Metro Tunnel and vice versa. If there would be a template from collossal Order for a Tramstation, the tram would not need to use a loop and could use it as a dead-end station.

If they were the same, what would be the point of having separate systems?
I would definitely like to see metros be able to run at ground level or elevated, and it would be neat to be able to connect the varying types of train systems together, but the whole point of a tram is that it's a medium capacity system rather than a high capacity one like heavy rail (including metros)

The problem is CO felt it was satisfactory to limit Trams to a very select few roads instead of implementing a tool to let you select which lanes to add tram tracks too like they had in their previous CIM games. Quite disappointed.

I fell like that's the case for more than just trams. I would have liked to have been able to just have stock roads of varying number of lanes and then be able to individually add/remove bus, bike and tram lanes as well as on street parking and street trees.

 

[Lindor]

The problem is CO felt it was satisfactory to limit Trams to a very select few roads instead of implementing a tool to let you select which lanes to add tram tracks too like they had in their previous CIM games. Quite disappointed.

I fell like that's the case for more than just trams. I would have liked to have been able to just have stock roads of varying number of lanes and then be able to individually add/remove bus, bike and tram lanes as well as on street parking and street trees.

The CIM sollution for both tram and bus/taxi lanes would have been perfect. This is one of the few things that bother me atm.

And if we can't have that system atleast add more road types with tram-tracks.
The one i miss the most is a, 2lane-2way road with a 1 way tram, that would fit well with the one way offroad tram track. As it is now i must use a 2way road/tram where i only connect one side to the single track.
It works, but just look so wrong.

While talking about tracks, another thing i'd like to see is single track railroad, for the countryside farmland.

And specilized cargo stations, (ore, forest, oil, so on) that only let it's kind of cargotrucks enter/leave.
Like, you put a forest cargo station in your forestry district and so on. Instead of puting a general cargo station there and be swarmd by any random cargotruck.

The best way to do it would be to make tram and Subway the same. It would be so cool if Trams could just go from their Tunnel into a Metro Tunnel and vice versa. If there would be a template from collossal Order for a Tramstation, the tram would not need to use a loop and could use it as a dead-end station.

I disagre, since metro and trams are two completly different transportationsystem. For one, tram uses overhead wire for its power while subway uses the 3rd rail. So the trains them self are not compatible irl.
However! What i'd like to see is that we could build the subway overground and elevated.
As "my" subway is more than 50% overground ^^

The Stockholm metro (Swedish: Stockholms tunnelbana, literally: Stockholm's Tunnel Rail) is a metro system in Stockholm, Sweden. The first line opened in 1950, and today the system has 100 stations in use,[1] of which 47 are underground and 53 above ground.

 

[ghostbirdofprey]

The CIM sollution for both tram and bus/taxi lanes would have been perfect. This is one of the few things that bother me atm.

And if we can't have that system atleast add more road types with tram-tracks.
The one i miss the most is a, 2lane-2way road with a 1 way tram, that would fit well with the one way offroad tram track. As it is now i must use a 2way road/tram where i only connect one side to the single track.
It works, but just look so wrong.

That would be nice, though I'm not sure how they'd implement it under the current system where roads are paired.
I do agree it looks odd to make a one-way balloon loop off to the side and have a stub of track on the two way that isn't unconnected.

Of course, if trams could reverse at a dead end, we wouldn't need those in the first place.

While talking about tracks, another thing i'd like to see is single track railroad, for the countryside farmland.

I doubt the game could even handle that, rails seem to function the same as roads where each side goes in one direction only. More importantly, trains don't know how to use sidings. Most of my train jams happen due to the following scenario:
A train is loading or unloading at a station, another train pulls up just outside waiting to get in. Another train pulls up in an interchange curve, but, despite the curve being plenty long enough to hold the entire train, it instead pulls up directly behind the second train. The first train then leaves the station, either going straight or turning the other direction, but is blocked because the third train has started to turn in rather than waiting out of the way.

And specilized cargo stations, (ore, forest, oil, so on) that only let it's kind of cargotrucks enter/leave.
Like, you put a forest cargo station in your forestry district and so on. Instead of puting a general cargo station there and be swarmd by any random cargotruck.

What purpose would that serve that generic stations don't? Granted it would be neat to see cars vary based on what they are carrying to add diversity (so have a train with some log cars and some tanker cars connected together, a train dispatched from a forestry region would mostly be carrying logs, etc.)

I disagre, since metro and trams are two completly different transportationsystem. For one, tram uses overhead wire for its power while subway uses the 3rd rail. So the trains them self are not compatible irl.
However! What i'd like to see is that we could build the subway overground and elevated.
As "my" subway is more than 50% overground ^^

I think some trams HAVE been built that use a third rail system. I think the main impediment is that trams usually have a different rail gauge, but even that isn't insurmountable.
Still, I agree that while things like s-bahns, interurbans and train-trams would be nice to be able to build and metros should allow for surface and elevated construction, that's not a good reason to remove any one system.