One simple question about Poland

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Mandraug

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Yes, the Sanation government is classically ignored. The story would be too complicated for our Western brains if Beck were to set Polish foreign policy and play into Hitler's hand up to 1939.

I suppose it goes both ways: Poland adopts its government-in-exile in 1936, even though its composition was actually heavily influenced by the Western Allies after Poland's fall to get rid of the dominant illiberal elements (and the Sanation elite is presumably interned in Romania from the start of the game), but in return the game serves up the British propaganda view of Poland as the consummate good guy, victim, and opponent of Nazi Germany. The British story of the lead-up to the war just makes for a simple script for the game's history to follow. The lack of Rydz-Smigly is just a side-effect.

Can Rydz-Smigly into the game?
 
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soldierpat117

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Yes, the Sanation government is classically ignored. The story would be too complicated for our Western brains if Beck were to set Polish foreign policy and play into Hitler's hand up to 1939.

I suppose it goes both ways: Poland adopts its government-in-exile in 1936, even though its composition was actually heavily influenced by the Western Allies after Poland's fall to get rid of the dominant illiberal elements (and the Sanation elite is presumably interned in Romania from the start of the game), but in return the game serves up the British propaganda view of Poland as the consummate good guy, victim, and opponent of Nazi Germany. The British story of the lead-up to the war just makes for a simple script for the game's history to follow. The lack of Rydz-Smigly is just a side-effect.

Can Rydz-Smigly into the game?


That makes no sense though because in Hearts of Iron 4 both Ignacy Moscicki and Rydz-Smigly were in the game.
 

Mandraug

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That makes no sense though because in Hearts of Iron 4 both Ignacy Moscicki and Rydz-Smigly were in the game.

Do you mean 4? I thought the complaint is that they're lacking from 4? (Disclaimer: I have yet to see the latest WWW, so if they're there as leaders you can put in your government, I haven't seen it).

In any case, sorry if it was unclear, but I agree with you: the Sanation government should be accurately represented. Sikorski is not the right guy to be head of state in Poland in 1936-1939; it should be the actual president or Poland's "Second Man," just as you say. (And if they're leaders you can hire, then it's even stranger that Sikorski is in charge.)

My post was just trying to ironise the simplistic official British view of the lead-up to the war, for which having Sikorski in power earlier would have been quite convenient. I do think HOI follows that story more than it might, because it is the simplest way to make sense of the historical lead-up and start of the war, making it useful if you're trying to start the war as it ended up happening (and quite funny, to me, that Sikorski is indeed already the head of state). I agree, however, that making it more historically accurate would be better, even if it's harder.

He's probably locked in a dark room with Stanley Baldwin.
That's the spirit.
 
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soldierpat117

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Do you mean 4? I thought the complaint is that they're lacking from 4? (Disclaimer: I have yet to see the latest WWW, so if they're there as leaders you can put in your government, I haven't seen it).

In any case, sorry if it was unclear, but I agree with you: the Sanation government should be accurately represented. Sikorski is not the right guy to be head of state in Poland in 1936-1939; it should be the actual president or Poland's "Second Man," just as you say. (And if they're leaders you can hire, then it's even stranger that Sikorski is in charge.)

My post was just trying to ironise the simplistic official British view of the lead-up to the war, for which having Sikorski in power earlier would have been quite convenient. I do think HOI follows that story more than it might, because it is the simplest way to make sense of the historical lead-up and start of the war, making it useful if you're trying to start the war as it ended up happening (and quite funny, to me, that Sikorski is indeed already the head of state). I agree, however, that making it more historically accurate would be better, even if it's harder.


That's the spirit.

I meant they were in Hearts of Iron 3, however strangely enough I saw Rydz-Smigly as a general in the latest WWW.
 

Kaszub

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To be honest, I'm really surprised by their choice. It isn't like they didn't have the data about Polish leaders because in previous HoIs, everything was fine. If paradox team like him so much to make him a leader, maybe he should be one if Poland becomes democracy (PSL party), but it doesn't make much sense neither, since more apropriate leader then should be Stanisław Mikołajczyk, or somebody else. I don't get why they did it. Is it an ignorance, lack of knowledge, or just not carrying about history? Something like that comming from PDX is really surprising because that kind of mistake is like putting Himmler as a head of state instead of Hitler.
 
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TheRomanRuler

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To be honest, I'm really surprised by their choice. It isn't like they didn't have the data about Polish leaders because in previous HoIs, everything was fine. If paradox team like him so much to make him a leader, maybe he should be one if Poland becomes democracy (PSL party), but it doesn't make much sense neither, since more apropriate leader then should be Stanisław Mikołajczyk, or somebody else. I don't get why they did it. Is it an ignorance, lack of knowledge, or just not carrying about history? Something like that comming from PDX is really surprising because that kind of mistake is like putting Himmler as a head of state instead of Hitler.
Or it could be Work In Progress AKA WIP.
 

TheRomanRuler

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Well, If it's work in progress, logically they will make the sanacja's leader and his portrait, and after that alternatives such us leaders for democratic and communist Poland, don't you think?
Maybe leaders were made in random order, maybe they were made in order "fascists, democrats, commies" or some other reason. Or maybe it slipped there by accident. Accident is most likely what has happened.
 

Kaszub

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Personally I think it wasn't a mistake, but made that was for gameplay reasons/simplifications.

I don't see any reason why they would do it like that. There is no government in exile mechanics, Hoi IV supposed to be more sandbox than the previous one, so it's not like they put him because he will eventually be a leader after the invasion. Poland could ally with Germany and then Great Britain could make a coup and put him as a leader of democratic Poland to destroy the new alliance, or something else...
 
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