One Last HurRAAh... A Milan Interactive AAR

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@chief ragusa - I don't think its too gamey, after all, we are supposed to be a secret order pulling the puppet strings - if we have this long-term plan out of game we can have it while role playing, too.

The Stateoftherepublic address was all about people being able to choose their religion. Orthodox and Muslim provinces are stuck. they cab't decide to change to something else.

The Secret Order has the plan that everyone will choose to be REF eventually. In converting Orthodox and muslim provinces people can choose that path naturally.

Milan does have religious turmoil and that ought to be reflected by expensive conversion efforts. That means converting provinces twice or more, s obe it. As the local aristos are converted they are brought into the milanese nobility and expands the cultural reach of the mianese aristocracy even as subjects express their greater freedom to worship as they please.

 

[unmerged(69928)]

Learn to play in the sandpit. High MAN generals help here. Conquistador's are good in that respect, too, but have an annoying habit of dying just when they could be of the most use.

Capital must move from insular Milan. You can't have a Med Empire ruled from Milan. Right colour - Imperial Purple. Mmm, capital Byzantium. Bulgaria must die (wrong game). I think you should have all provinces either Catholic or REF before you convert to REF. It seems a bit too gamey to leave Orthodox and Muslim provinces whilst being Catholic defender of the Faith.

Royal Guard = Sforza Milano!

I'd like to see the humbling of Castille. The pursuit of all things Castillian and the taking of overseas territory.

Time in the sand is OK, just slow and steady, keyword being slow...
I have nothing against playing in it, so long as I don't have to own it.

I was of the same opinion concerning the capitol, but I am 98% sure as of this moment it will not be moved. Venezia has everything you could want in a capitol strategy and economy wise... But the heart and soul of our nation has been Milan proper and Lombardia.

Aside from the Knights who have vehemently opposed it, and promise even more of it should I push to move... I'll take heart over function every time.

Sforza Milano... I like the sound of it, Italian Sports Car implications aside.
I am thinking I need a generic name for the military minions as opposed to "Armatti di ______"

And no, I won't be using "Pink Sleeves Di ______"

I'm with you on Castille. Ever since they balked against France I've been working my way over to yonder peninsula. I think our tech advantage should be employed to maximum use over there, even if it means a premature GB showdown. I'm pretty sure I can take GB's Navy, which allow for blockades and some cheap WS to peace them out of the conflict with minimal damage to their end game stature. This in turn will allow us time to attend to the dissection of Castille at our leisure...

Just an FYI, I never had anything to say about a, "Protect against Castile," mission. A couple months ago I mentioned that Castile often gets the, "Restore the Holy See," mission and frequently DOWs the nation holding Roma if Castile feels it has a stronger navy.

It was a direct lift from the post on page 32 or some such, and it was long ago. At least now it makes sense to me... And now that you repeat it, I do recall a bit of the conversation. And now I really don't think we have to worry about that at all, seeing is Castille is PROtestant... Thanks for filling in a blank. I do hope you don't tire of correcting my sieve induced posts...

Danke for the colors. They will go into the sig immediately.

Bitte. Ist gut, Ja...? That's it. No more of that. We're Milanese, not Joy men...

"Greensleeves is all my joy, Greensleeves is my delight" If Pink is better than Green, they must be more delightful.

Oh Lord, please rescue me from Martha Stewart's evil twin...

No, the don't have tea parties on the battlefield, they have Scotch parties.

Well that's a good start... But it's wine. Milano is wine country.
Scotch is what those buggers in GB drink...

Seriously? Even when so outnumbered in troops strength and size?

Have you ever seen an AI nation consider these...? Ever...?

Here are the priorities as I see them at the moment (in no particular order):

Immediate Priorities (ie, those we have agreed on or at least looked favorably on and should be actively working for and should hope to complete in the next 20 years or so):
1) convert to REFormed
2) finish taking Med coastal provinces
3) take all provinces of each culture we possess(?)

1) We need to stall for 10-20 years actually to take advantage of lower BB for taking Pro and REF provinces from any European enemies. After that we convert, then take on any Cathy provinces (before 1650) for the same lower cost BB...
2) Agreed. As opportunity allows. Also fits with (1) in regards to Aragon and Castille and Granada.
3) Needs to be decided. If we adopt the spice trade Idea, I think this one would be superseded due to the spice trade being a harder goal to achieve. We'd have much more in way of specific actions to do with the spice idea, and it would be alot less mindless warring just to add provinces.

Longer-term priorities (those objectives that have been proposed that I think we should hope to begin working towards in the next few decades)
1) total spice monopoly sounds like a fascinating idea, and one that would draw us into the pacific to come around to Ming, etc, from another direction. I think this idea should be seriously considered once the red sea province cores. I don't know enough about cultures in SE asia to say for sure but this could be especially interesting when combined with (3) above. It would also give us access to Japan (if we want to do that) BEFORE it is ridiculously easy to conquer them because our supply lines will hinder troop and ship movement. The biggest problem I see with this is that it will require a national idea slot that we don't have at the moment - if you want to convert to reformed as a very heavily catholic state I think you might need to take a national idea to help you convert provinces after you switch state religion.
2) the alternative, I suppose, would be a massive showdown in the middle east to try to dominate the traditional silk road.
Both options fit well with role playing of this country (mercantile, and, it seems, increasingly missionary-oriented)

Either way, I think leave the western hemisphere completely alone because it will allow Britain to consolidate there and become an even bigger end-game threat. It would be pretty cool, if you went the spice island route, to colonize the american west coast and then have a major clash with the british in north america across the continent at the end of the 18th century or thereabouts (in addition, of course, to the atlantic/european conflict).

I really like the inroad to Japan in option (1). Makes it really plausible, and allows for some deviation should the game want to direct us somewhere else for a time. (which would make it harder as time went on to achieve the goal, so it's not a bad thing...)

Culture would have take a back seat maybe...? Having to tiptoe around to get all of the spice provinces, having to deal with all of the interweavings of the nations for what would be at times a single province...

It would definitely reduce the mind numbing war for no apparent reason. I can see having to do all of the culture, but I am thinking of using the conversion to REF to be the marker. Once we have the proper religion we can move on...?

I don't mind the warring personally, but I think it might become cross productive... Do I go for the spice trade or the culture, especially if religion is also brought into the mix. I think this needs some future scrutiny. For now, short term seems good.

@chief ragusa - I don't think its too gamey, after all, we are supposed to be a secret order pulling the puppet strings - if we have this long-term plan out of game we can have it while role playing, too.

Part of the REFormed story is the Order installing it as a "crowd control measure". People only think they have the right to choose... As with the Government chosen, it gives just enough freedom to the people without actually giving them any. Religion will be used as a means to maintain Centralization for a role playing point of view.

and I'm all for the invincible and immortal pinksleeves.

I'm just not going to get away from that, am I...? I suppose I brought it upon myself for pointing it out... I am going to mess with the colors. I can say that much.

The Stateoftherepublic address was all about people being able to choose their religion. Orthodox and Muslim provinces are stuck. they cab't decide to change to something else.

The Secret Order has the plan that everyone will choose to be REF eventually. In converting Orthodox and muslim provinces people can choose that path naturally.

Milan does have religious turmoil and that ought to be reflected by expensive conversion efforts. That means converting provinces twice or more, s obe it. As the local aristos are converted they are brought into the milanese nobility and expands the cultural reach of the mianese aristocracy even as subjects express their greater freedom to worship as they please.

Milan does not have religious turmoil at this time. It was one of the reasons I went after the PRO provinces. By eliminating them I got out of the event. Orthodox and Muslim will be converted, but I find the need to convert them twice unnecessary, especially as non christian based entities. Right now I only suffer an economic penalty... We have enough revolt risk issues now, and if we do get involved in Europe, I need as many men there as I can spare, not off in east podunk quashing rebellion after rebellion. Considering many of these provinces are still in a state of "nationalism", I can't afford the extra RR of a missionary. Nor can I really afford to support all the missionaries I would need... I have to have some income loss at my disposal in case WE is jacked, as it will be initially given GB's involvement.

I do salute you sticking to your guns... Please continue to do so. It is a great help to know all sides of a thing before determining a course of action, and standing your ground is a Knight worthy activity...

Should you be interested...

T

 

[Ahriman]

Just to stick my oar in to the SF discussion;

I didn't mention Dune because it's a classic - I can barely concieve of someone who enjoys sci-fi not having read it. It would be like a fantasy reader not having read Lord of the Rings. I have read every novel in the Dune series that was written by Frank Herbert - I have considered reading those written (co-written) by his son, but have not yet come across all of them in order in a library, and I'm not prepared to buy them when there are fantasy series to grab.

As someone else who loves the Dune books I have to plead with you not to read the one's written by his son unless you want to end up hating reading. Be satisfied with the amazing books Frank Herbert left us.

Byzantium must live!

I can live with them still existing but you've got to have Rhodes.

Getting Serious About the Other Holy Land

I've been agitating for this for some time as you know. It would be nice to get a core event first so I can live with holding off for a while and crossing fingers.

Mediterranean Empire or Colonizing Force

If by some miracle the choice Caribbean islands are still available when The Azores cores then you should grab them. Even the Danes grabbed some of them in real life, money! If not then a stab east to the Philippines seems like a good plan, but that relies on that core event or a lot of waiting.

A name for our royal guard.

I like the idea for a new name but wasn't serious about Pinksleeves. How about Purplecoats? It fits in the game but still demonstrates the distinctive great power status of the Milanese Empire in this timeline.

The Spice Must Flow

I like spice! It would be particularily appropriate if we end up choosing Sardukar as the name for our Imperial Guard. If we do decide on this we'll have to colonise the spice islands (duh!) and for that you really need Colonial Ventures or the population growth is sloooooow!

 

[OrangeYoshi]

Bitte. Ist gut, Ja...? That's it. No more of that. We're Milanese, not Joy men...

Jawohl. I...uh...I mean Si!

Oh Lord, please rescue me from Martha Stewart's evil twin...

What? You just have to use those pink sleeves. Put them in some nice fuchsia socks and those nice uniforms will really pop!

Well that's a good start... But it's wine. Milano is wine country.
Scotch is what those buggers in GB drink...

Very well.

Have you ever seen an AI nation consider these...? Ever...?

Yes.

I can live with them still existing but you've got to have Rhodes.

Then where do you plan to relocate the great Byzantines to?

If by some miracle the choice Caribbean islands are still available when The Azores cores then you should grab them. Even the Danes grabbed some of them in real life, money! If not then a stab east to the Philippines seems like a good plan, but that relies on that core event or a lot of waiting.

Just one problem there, it costs to be able to get it, and then just as much to be able to keep it.

The NI usage to get there, as well as maybe an advisor or two, the ships it will take to discover it (if not already discovered) and the ships to keep it pirate free, the ships to defend it in case of war with a colonial power, the troops to fight down rebels or a colonial power, and the stab cost of changing QFTNW back after you have a few colonies. All that money, manpower, and time can be put to better use in our Mediterranean Empire, and not off chasing something in the Caribbean.

 

[enf91]

Yay, I made quote of the day! And as for Byzantium, you can capture Kaffa and sell it to them.

 

[draik]

Getting Serious About the Other Holy Land:

The capture of the Muslim Holy Land is an important step in establishing Milan's prestige among the Eastern cultures with which we have more and more contact. At the moment they fear our military might but ridicule our culture - they must learn the error of their ways!

Taking Japan as the End Game VS An an Open End Game:

The way things are shaping up, Japan is going to be a side note to the battles with Ming and Great Britain. Also looks like some fun just getting to Ming with two decent sized empires in the way.

The new French Connection:

Grind them into little blue pieces, like a shattered mirror reflecting the cloudless Milanese sky.

Austria: There's GOLD in them there hills.

Meh. If we get the chance, sure. No priority.

Mediterranean Empire or Colonizing Force:

Eastward bound!

A few new ideas from recent posts...:

A name for our royal guard...

Well, taking a look at the wiki page for Pink (yes, there is one!), I have two things to offer:

Firstly, Pink in Latin is Roseus (or Rosea). I certainly wouldn't mind the Roseusian Guard. If that is the decision, though, their emblematic flower must be the Catharanthus Roseus, which originated in Madagascar, so we'll need to take that island to use it.

Secondly, "In the 17th century, however, the word pink was also used to describe a greenish or yellowish color": Baaarneeeeeey!!!

The Spice Must Flow:

Sir Ahriman has introduced the idea of trying to control the spice trade.

My schizophrenia is finally manifesting?

An intriguing thought for sure, and well suited to both our trade/mercantile base and our opportunistic/aggressive natures...
I am uncertain as to what we would have to do specifically to control it... BUT, taking control of any and all spice provinces would probably be involved, and I'm game for that...

As to what we would have to do to control it, I offer three simple points:

1. Control all spice-producing provinces
2. Control the Near East connections to Europe (the Bosphorus and the Caucasus)
3. Have a trading monopoly (or own) all CoTs in which spice is traded (this is added for additional wowz0r challenge)

Sir Enewald: "And the world trembled at the sight of the scary pink sleeves. Be afraid... Very afraid."

So say we all!

"Greensleeves is all my joy, Greensleeves is my delight" If Pink is better than Green, they must be more delightful.

Agreed! Let the Roseusian Guard be known as a source of delight in Milan and terror in all other nations. The savages to the East shall fall back in horror at the might of the pinksleeves!

The Stateoftherepublic address was all about people being able to choose their religion. Orthodox and Muslim provinces are stuck. they cab't decide to change to something else.

The Secret Order has the plan that everyone will choose to be REF eventually. In converting Orthodox and muslim provinces people can choose that path naturally.

I disagree. As antracer said, the Secret Order is ultimately in charge. It is the illusion of freedom that we provide, not freedom itself. In any case, it would be counter-productive to convert Muslims and Orthodox to Catholicism just before a change - what is the point of convincing them of the Catholic doctrines and then expecting them to just swap over to those of the Reformed faith - it makes much more sense to leave those provinces alone until the rest of our nation has decided its faith and then to send missionaries.

In roleplay terms, Catholic missionaries are more concerned with the Reformed and Protestant heresies than with the heathens to the East. Once Reformed has taken hold in the heartland of Milan, there shall once more be missionaries to send to the unbelievers.

As someone else who loves the Dune books I have to plead with you not to read the one's written by his son unless you want to end up hating reading. Be satisfied with the amazing books Frank Herbert left us.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

I can live with them still existing but you've got to have Rhodes.

Agreed - the Greeks shall be ours!

I like the idea for a new name but wasn't serious about Pinksleeves. How about Purplecoats? It fits in the game but still demonstrates the distinctive great power status of the Milanese Empire in this timeline.

I don't mind either, but I think it's relevant to point out that during this period pink was actually a manly colour, considered so because of its proximity to red. So pinksleeves is by no means an unmanly name. Purplecoats works too, though I would have liked a unit type of that name rather than that being the name of the actual guard.

I like spice! It would be particularily appropriate if we end up choosing Sardukar as the name for our Imperial Guard. If we do decide on this we'll have to colonise the spice islands (duh!) and for that you really need Colonial Ventures or the population growth is sloooooow!

Goooo Team Spice! Better than Team CoCoa any day!

 

[unmerged(69928)]

Ooh, ooh! I just had an awesome (read: silly) idea. The reason we need to take over India is that... drum roll... the SPICE MUST FLOW!

Seriously though, perhaps we, as a trading nation, should look to monopolise the spice trade. We're already sitting astride the Bosphorus to control land entry to Europe, though the Caucasus should be secured as well, and we should then look to gain control of the actual production of spice as well.

Not a bad idea?

* Any invitation to litigation in this post is used entirely in a figurative sense and should not be interpreted as a literal invitation to sue the author of this post.

No... It's my schizophrenia that's kicking in.
I think my head may have just graduated from sieve to autoclave.
Or maybe a dryer. I've noticed a lot more tumbling going on lately.
Some days I really do wonder if I'm actually that dense...
Funny too is that I really don't have to, as the proof is right here. :rofl:

Please accept my humblest apology, Sir draik: The AluminIum Knight of SA, for my latest impersonation of a 2x4...

T

 

[Malurous]

The Stateoftherepublic address was all about people being able to choose their religion.

The way I see it, it's all about people being able to choose the Reformed faith as God has willed for Milan. Once it's state sanctioned, the other choice would be to disavow the faith and die. "You have chosen unwisely." They are absolutely free to choose either option

subjects express their greater freedom to worship as they please.

The subjects can worship as they please as long as the worshiping adheres to the standards of the Reformed faith and the state church of the Milanese Empire.

Culture would have take a back seat maybe...? Having to tiptoe around to get all of the spice provinces, having to deal with all of the interweavings of the nations for what would be at times a single province...

I'm torn here, as I really like the culture angle too. However, maybe the cultural restrictions have already done their job - the focus stayed in the Med coast in the early game as it was supposed to.

Hmm, maybe we should seek to define the spice goal more accurately. I like Sir draik's points, but is it going to be a soft or hard goal? Are you just going to look for random opportunities to grab spice or are we looking for some "house rules" again?

Firstly, Pink in Latin is Roseus (or Rosea). I certainly wouldn't mind the Roseusian Guard.

This seems very unnatural to me. A composite word of a Latin adjective and an English suffix generally used for turning stuff into adjectives? It is an adjective already, so why the -ian? Pinkian, rosyian?

The concept itself is a good find though. Even if it does sound too much like Rosengård (a well-known troubled immigrant suburb in Sweden) to me. However, I'm sure that wouldn't bother a non-Scandinavian.

 

[unmerged(69928)]

To make things a little easier, here is what I am planning to do according to discussions so far. I may have some time in the next day or two for the next session, and I'd like to be ready to go. This should alert anyone to something I plan on doing that may not be what I'm supposed to be doing...

The Big Post of Agendas

Immediate:

1: Form The Milanese Empire.
-This will be done after the first month to let the game settle in before changing the TAG.

2: Slider Move...
-Have 1 central open. Have Aristocracy/Plutocracy to settle, as well as Narrow Minded. Plus the three Military Sliders are wide open. Forming The Empire will give us One Central, so it's not a valid move this time around, and there are no annex possibilities. That leaves addressing policy or military. One move to free subjects, Defensive (for free fort upgrades) or Naval would work as interim choices. I'm leaning to Defensive if no one has any other plans...

3: Land Tech, get the advantage at 22.
-No one is close. To have next generation CAV would be huge. I am going to really push Land and Gov until I get the next levels, time ahead or not.

4: Use Guyenne and or anyone else for fun with France, Castille.
-Particularly while we have the CAV advantage. There's fun to be had, and more colors to make... Like ours...

5: Taking Aragon and Castille Med coastal provinces.
-Basic fulfilling of the MED mandate. And Castille owes us...

6: Traforare le Maniche Da Lombardia...
-Possibly too long. Could use "Rosa" instead of "Traforare"...
I'm obviously not an Italian speaker, but I believe Traforare may refer to a person, a "pinko" so to speak...
It's the translation I got for "Pink Sleeves From".

Near Future:

1: Tunisia, Tripoli, Dulkadir, Ottomans, Islands.
-Any opportunity to take/make or break any of these OPM/TPMs.

2: Upon core or NI change, Naval presence required near Mecca.
-I'm hoping I don't have to wait 50 years here. I can only do so much to encourage a dispute event. Cross your appendages...

3: Taking Mecca and the Eastern side of the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden.
-Only possible if above happens. We have to have ships to nullify blockades and the many Pirates that spawn in this area.

4: Settling of Caribbean Islands already known due to spread of discoveries.
-We currently know of 5... Will have to wait for a core in The Azores, currently 20+ years away. QTFNW currently puts us close, but no cigar. However, we may be able to sneak in early with it if we can up the tech sufficiently and pull an advisor. It's alot of work for a few islands, but it can be done...

5: Acquisition of Cosmopolitan cultures.
-A last ditch accepted culture effort. And they're the BBB...

6: Change national religion to REFormed after European campaigns.
-To take advantage of lowered BB for wrong religion provinces. May need to swap an NI to fully take advantage of this, but we're taking about 2 or 3 DoWs. Less if I can find the right "in". The NI swap would make it easier, but for the amount of DoWs we need to make, it may not be cost effective.

7: Push for GOV 21 for next NI...
-Should be something to enhance European campaign or QFTNW if we swap early for campaign contributions.

Far Future:

1: Solidify all holdings on the Med.
-Must be able to hold off any advance by the enemy at all locations.

2: Solidify holdings around the Red Sea.
-Just making it safe to be there is all.

3: Begin to work East by way of Military and colony expansion.
-Colonizing Eastern/Indian ocean provinces as available. RE-colonizing others with "pink" armed personnel if they aren't...

4: Controlling the Spice Trade.
-Yet to be finalized, but so far looks to be gaining spice provinces, control of any COT trading it (maybe eliminating some of the lesser ones...?) and controlling the provinces of the trade routes to ensure it's safe arrival.

5: Working towards Japan and the taking of...
-Actually works into the Spice game quite well.

6: The End Game:
-Allowing Great Britain to expand unmolested to the West, setting up a clash of Great Empires... This could end up being a real battle royal. Could. Depends on whether GB really puts it's boots down and gets aggressive or not. So far so good. They are actually larger than I am, and once all their colonies core...

Thoughts/suggestions of course, especially if I missed something.

T

Somewhere Sir Enewald is laughing hysterically... Pink Sleeves indeed... Well commandeered my friend.

 

[draik]

Don't worry antracer, you do plank so damn well - now all you need to do is build on your last performance!

This seems very unnatural to me. A composite word of a Latin adjective and an English suffix generally used for turning stuff into adjectives? It is an adjective already, so why the -ian? Pinkian, rosyian?

The concept itself is a good find though. Even if it does sound too much like Rosengård (a well-known troubled immigrant suburb in Sweden) to me. However, I'm sure that wouldn't bother a non-Scandinavian.

Oh, it's a terrible, terrible thing to do to language. I just threw it together because The Roseus Guard didn't roll off the tongue in my mental reading of it.

As to the name being just like a Swedish suburb - well, there was a movie that was name almost the same as a very troubled South African township that did rather well last year, so I suppose you can overcome stigma.

I just felt that if people couldn't handle the idea of the word 'pink' being used then a translation might make them feel a bit better about it.

 

[unmerged(69928)]

The way I see it, it's all about people being able to choose the Reformed faith as God has willed for Milan. Once it's state sanctioned, the other choice would be to disavow the faith and die. "You have chosen unwisely." They are absolutely free to choose either option

As has been spoken before, it is the illusion of freedom, not necessarily freedom. We here at The Milanese Empire don't condone the killing of those that choose to worship in other ways. A few dissidents and martyrs will always come to exist. They just have to make sure to check the brakes on the coach before setting off in the morning...

Actually, they don't...

The subjects can worship as they please as long as the worshiping adheres to the standards of the Reformed faith and the state church of the Milanese Empire.

It's all in how we sell it. The people will be THRILLED to embrace the REFormed way of life. Trust me... (glint off the teeth in a big salesman smile...)

I'm torn here, as I really like the culture angle too. However, maybe the cultural restrictions have already done their job - the focus stayed in the Med coast in the early game as it was supposed to.

I am also... The way I see it, culture was meant to be a limiting factor because we basically had no plan other than "go East". We wanted to end up in Japan, but brought up more than a few times was "why?".

With no real goal, culture became a mandate to limit speed and place a saddle and burden upon moving. If we should embrace the challenge of the spice trade, that's no longer the case. We now have a specific agenda that requires a little flexibility to fulfill.

Even with that said, Culture doesn't have to disappear from the game. I want Cosmo to be a big deal. I still want Greek and Turkish to play a role. What I am concerned about is having to take 30 junk provinces just because they have culture xyz from a nation that couldn't hope to put up a decent fight, especially when I could be out actually accomplishing something. I'd much rather leave them be, let them become a threat and then war when it's a bit of challenge.

That fits with the Spice role play much better too, as I'll have to battle for the spice against competent somewhat dangerous enemies instead of rolling over them time and time again and just killing rebels...

Hmm, maybe we should seek to define the spice goal more accurately. I like Sir draik's points, but is it going to be a soft or hard goal? Are you just going to look for random opportunities to grab spice or are we looking for some "house rules" again?

If we go for this, we go for it. 100%. No just grab some spice provinces and woo hoo we got three. It would be a total monopoly of the trade from the Eastern world first, then into the West and the New World should time permit.

I would say hard goal, with Japan worked into it for role play. It's certainly a heck of alot more interesting than just warring for accumulated culture's sake.

Oh, and I consider salt a spice...

This seems very unnatural to me. A composite word of a Latin adjective and an English suffix generally used for turning stuff into adjectives? It is an adjective already, so why the -ian? Pinkian, rosyian?

I'm surprised no has had thoughts on Sforza... IIRC, it was a family name from one of the ruling families. Is that not part of our heritage too...? I agree on the mix and match Latin. I'd actually want to stray from Latin... In my mind it's tied with the Catholic Church in our alternate history, and part of breaking from it is establishing a more "Italian/Milanese" language preference, if that makes any sense.

The concept itself is a good find though. Even if it does sound too much like Rosengård (a well-known troubled immigrant suburb in Sweden) to me. However, I'm sure that wouldn't bother a non-Scandinavian.

All this talk of pink is driving me nuts actually. Of all the things to settle, calling our soldiers pink sleeves or another language equivalent has been the talk of the town... I can only imagine the press this has garnered outside the thread...

"Oh, that AAR with all the cool Knights and stuff... Yeah... They've been talking about pink sleeved soldiers for 3 days now..." :rofl:

And I did an Italian translation of it, noted in the post above.

T

 

[unmerged(69928)]

Don't worry antracer, you do plank so damn well - now all you need to do is build on your last performance!

:rofl: Oh lordy... Thanks for leveling with me. Thank God we're talking pink and not plumb... And no that wasn't just a line... At least you're criticism was constructive...

Oh, it's a terrible, terrible thing to do to language. I just threw it together because The Roseus Guard didn't roll off the tongue in my mental reading of it.

Watch the thorns with all that tongue rolling stuff...

As to the name being just like a Swedish suburb - well, there was a movie that was name almost the same as a very troubled South African township that did rather well last year, so I suppose you can overcome stigma.

I haven't seen it yet... Waiting for the DVD/PPV release. Really interesting story concept, and the short film predecessor was pretty good. One I definitely have on my to watch list.

I just felt that if people couldn't handle the idea of the word 'pink' being used then a translation might make them feel a bit better about it.

I dislike Rosa more than Pink. Rosa sounds like we employ thousands of "south of the border not so legal personnel" to fight for our empire. Though that would explain why they're undefeated...

T

 

[draik]

:rofl: Oh lordy... Thanks for leveling with me. Thank God we're talking pink and not plumb... And no that wasn't just a line... At least you're criticism was constructive...

Glad you're not to board to keep going. And you really nailed that one, though you did hammer your point home a bit much - almost screwed it up!

I haven't seen it yet... Waiting for the DVD/PPV release. Really interesting story concept, and the short film predecessor was pretty good. One I definitely have on my to watch list.

I thought it was a fantastic movie, and aside from the action the story did manage to address a number of the social issues of apartheid while not being heavy-handed.

I dislike Rosa more than Pink. Rosa sounds like we employ thousands of "south of the border not so legal personnel" to fight for our empire. Though that would explain why they're undefeated...

An odd concept for me, since south of the border where I live is mainly... sharks. And tuna. And the occasional whale and dolphin.

Guess that just gets chalked up to cultural differences, eh?

 

[Phoenix86]

I like spice. Spice is good. Whoever controls the spice controls Milan, whoever controls Milan controls the spice.

Looks like the immediate goal is to burn off BB until more tech is achieved and cores pop in mocha or azores. QFTNW may be nice short term. but medium and long term it may be better to go for a religious idea to use for convincing the empire that it sould reform its religious ideas faster.

as for late game, I perfer to snip problems like GB in the bud before they can cause too much problems. but if you looking for a nice big colonial war raging a crossed multiple continents, then i will happily watch

 

[unmerged(69928)]

Glad you're not to board to keep going. And you really nailed that one, though you did hammer your point home a bit much - almost screwed it up!

:rofl: I don't know if there's anything left to build upon here. You've certainly raised the roof and enabled us to continue instead of shelving the project. I'm floored...

I thought it was a fantastic movie, and aside from the action the story did manage to address a number of the social issues of apartheid while not being heavy-handed.

This is good day for Milan. Er for me...

An odd concept for me, since south of the border where I live is mainly... sharks. And tuna. And the occasional whale and dolphin.
Guess that just gets chalked up to cultural differences, eh?

Unless those sharks and tuna start talking to you in spanish...

I like spice. Spice is good. Whoever controls the spice controls Milan, whoever controls Milan controls the spice.

As long as we don't catch you smoking it... Bad for profits and for posting...

Looks like the immediate goal is to burn off BB until more tech is achieved and cores pop in mocha or azores. QFTNW may be nice short term. but medium and long term it may be better to go for a religious idea to use for convincing the empire that it sould reform its religious ideas faster.

I will need to burn off much BB. And then restock it with fresh BB from European Adventures. I agree on the NI. I would much rather address the ability to physical with the neighbors than I would go gallivanting to the new world. However... If we are unable to "influence" a core event in the Red Sea, we will need QFTNW to enable us to explore and sail a naval presence over to Mocha to deal with the many pirates that love to spawn over there. And to keep from gaining WE when Hedjaz parks it's Galleys outside our provinces if we invade.

as for late game, I perfer to snip problems like GB in the bud before they can cause too much problems. but if you looking for a nice big colonial war raging a crossed multiple continents, then i will happily watch

If this were a traditional conquest game, England would have been dealt with long ago. But as this isn't a normal game, I am quite happy with how she's progressing. Having her maintain possessions on the French coast line, form GB earlier than usual and engage in some traditional, historical colonizing patterns has been a pleasant surprise. Of all the nations in game, she's probably the one most acting like herself.

And yes, I foresee a great showdown. I will happily play, and happily share the epic-ness of the war. If you have to make an exit, what a way to go out...

T

 

[Malurous]

2: Slider Move...

IIRC you're in the middle in Offensive/Defensive, right? In that case the one to Defensive for sure.

6: Traforare le Maniche Da Lombardia...
-Possibly too long. Could use "Rosa" instead of "Traforare"...
I'm obviously not an Italian speaker, but I believe Traforare may refer to a person, a "pinko" so to speak...
It's the translation I got for "Pink Sleeves From".

Pink Sleeves sure got big :rofl: Sure sounds great, even though if it were all wrong I'd have no idea. Pretty sure it's too long though. And the Da should maybe not be capitalized, no reason for that...

6: Change national religion to REFormed after European campaigns.
-To take advantage of lowered BB for wrong religion provinces. May need to swap an NI to fully take advantage of this, but we're taking about 2 or 3 DoWs. Less if I can find the right "in". The NI swap would make it easier, but for the amount of DoWs we need to make, it may not be cost effective.

The effectiveness of the NI depends on future direction. If we're indeed headed straight east and for the spice, there's no need for it. However, if spanking Europeans is on the agenda then it certainly is useful.

Oh, it's a terrible, terrible thing to do to language. I just threw it together because The Roseus Guard didn't roll off the tongue in my mental reading of it.

Nice to see you agree, wouldn't have wanted to get into a fight over this

As to the name being just like a Swedish suburb - well, there was a movie that was name almost the same as a very troubled South African township that did rather well last year, so I suppose you can overcome stigma.

This, by itself, was a non-issue anyway as I mentioned at the end of my post. Heck, it just means rose garden so it's not like it's patented or anything :rofl:

I just felt that if people couldn't handle the idea of the word 'pink' being used then a translation might make them feel a bit better about it.

Agreed. Like I said, good concept.

As has been spoken before, it is the illusion of freedom, not necessarily freedom. We here at The Milanese Empire don't condone the killing of those that choose to worship in other ways. A few dissidents and martyrs will always come to exist. They just have to make sure to check the brakes on the coach before setting off in the morning...

Actually, they don't...

It's all in how we sell it. The people will be THRILLED to embrace the REFormed way of life. Trust me... (glint off the teeth in a big salesman smile...)

I like your though process It seems that we're in agreement.

If we go for this, we go for it. 100%. No just grab some spice provinces and woo hoo we got three.

:rofl: Still, how are you going to do it? Do you need a spice province and a land connection to it, essentially meaning expansion as one huge mass with the associated strengths and weaknesses (easier to maintain but requires taking crap provinces)? Or a connection to the coast, leading to a predominantly naval game and many separate territories to maintain and defend (which would be more concentrated on just the spice)? Or a bunch of disconnected spice provinces with no conceivable way of getting the stuff out (first grabbing spice provinces aggressively and worrying about the connections later)?

I can only imagine the press this has garnered outside the thread...

"Oh, that AAR with all the cool Knights and stuff... Yeah... They've been talking about pink sleeved soldiers for 3 days now..." :rofl:

Hate to break it to ya, but the Paradox forums get limited press Hard to understand why, you'd think stuff like this would be just what Joe Average would want to read about

 

[unmerged(58610)]

Moving to defensive helps with those forts.

Yes, I am aware that you converted a few provinces and got rid of the event. That seems daft. That seemed to be what your SoTR was saying.

The Spanish Conquistadors "saved" precious metals; the Catholic Church "saved" souls. The Catholic church would convert whatever was available.


I took the SOTR address to mean that there would be a slot for a Theologian who would head up a Religious Truth Commission. Investigators would be sent out into every province. Very quickly theseinvestigators would be seen as Cathoilic missionaries. Those in REF provinces would be forced to flee,given a helpful nudge for the Secret Order. As the revolts happen, Milan's armies are kept from the front lines and large amounts of money and blood are spent helping the Catholic Church sustain its Defender of the Faith title, the REF are going to become more narrow-minded and will begin to turn the Empire against the Catholic Church.

Sure antracer, I know why you don't want to spend money on those provinces, but your goal is to make things more difficult for Milan.

The Secret Order is not ultimately in control; it directs.

All this talk about Spice, but I don't recall seeing it as a trade good

 

[Malurous]

All this talk about Spice, but I don't recall seeing it as a trade good

Sure it is - it's the main reason to go for those Pacific islands, for instance. India has a lot, too. Well, the places where you expect it to be, basically. But it definitely exists.

 

[unmerged(69928)]

IIRC you're in the middle in Offensive/Defensive, right? In that case the one to Defensive for sure.

I figure it's a safe move until we can resolve the bigger issues...

Pink Sleeves sure got big :rofl: Sure sounds great, even though if it were all wrong I'd have no idea. Pretty sure it's too long though. And the Da should maybe not be capitalized, no reason for that...

It's just what the translation said, which is another reason I believe it to be related to a person as opposed to a color. IIRC from my German class, personal address or articles that addressed a person were capitalized in the formal. It looked pretty formal... In the game "di" is used, so I figure it'd work for this too.

The effectiveness of the NI depends on future direction. If we're indeed headed straight east and for the spice, there's no need for it. However, if spanking Europeans is on the agenda then it certainly is useful.

We have much business on the Iberian peninsula with Aragon, Castille and Granada, as well as any allies they have. We can count on either France or GB throwing in too once the bullets fly, maybe both. The BB is the major concern, so anything that can cut it down for any DoW or peace situation is good. STAB isn't too big a deal. More a case of Rebels than anything else.

I like your thought process It seems that we're in agreement.

I'm devious in a good way. The fun part is with all the issues I have I sometimes forget I did something and actually surprise myself... :rofl:

:rofl: Still, how are you going to do it? Do you need a spice province and a land connection to it, essentially meaning expansion as one huge mass with the associated strengths and weaknesses (easier to maintain but requires taking crap provinces)? Or a connection to the coast, leading to a predominantly naval game and many separate territories to maintain and defend (which would be more concentrated on just the spice)? Or a bunch of disconnected spice provinces with no conceivable way of getting the stuff out (first grabbing spice provinces aggressively and worrying about the connections later)?

I think somewhere in the middle of where you're looking. I don't believe Naval will be adequate, nor will it be much fun. I am thinking it has to be a Spice "Road", a direct path back to Lombardia with small shipping allowed between Islands or similar. I'd also want to have more than one route for safety purposes. From a role play perspective, a short route you could take in summer and a longer route you would have to take in winter... (?)

I also think given the number of provinces and nations involved, I'd have to have a controlling interest in any nation I was dealing with. I wouldn't want one province here and there. Too easy for an enemy to kick me out and too hard for me to defend without a boat load of transports outside every harbor to have a place to retreat to. That could mean more than one war with any decent sized nation to gain enough ground to be considered safe and stable.

We still have the culture and religious aspects to add to that also, so I'm confident we can come up with something doable that will satisfy the need for action, handcuffs and blood...

Hate to break it to ya, but the Paradox forums get limited press Hard to understand why, you'd think stuff like this would be just what Joe Average would want to read about

What's this...? You mean we're not being read by HUNDREDS of people a year...? Crazy talk...!
16 people in the US alone are discussing this "Pink Sleeve" thing even as I type this.
(too bad the mirror doesn't answer back...)

Moving to defensive helps with those forts.

I like to be one or two defensive. Usually...

Yes, I am aware that you converted a few provinces and got rid of the event. That seems daft. That seemed to be what your SoTR was saying.

It's never daft to get rid of a set of negative modifiers that don't expire unless you do something about them. I dislike being tagged like that, and reconverting PRO served to do that and to help REF gain the proper foot hold. Two for One aint bad in my book.

The Spanish Conquistadors "saved" precious metals; the Catholic Church "saved" souls. The Catholic church would convert whatever was available.

So THAT'S what happened to my cow... Great line BTW. And very true...

I took the SOTR address to mean that there would be a slot for a Theologian who would head up a Religious Truth Commission. Investigators would be sent out into every province. Very quickly theseinvestigators would be seen as Cathoilic missionaries. Those in REF provinces would be forced to flee,given a helpful nudge for the Secret Order. As the revolts happen, Milan's armies are kept from the front lines and large amounts of money and blood are spent helping the Catholic Church sustain its Defender of the Faith title, the REF are going to become more narrow-minded and will begin to turn the Empire against the Catholic Church.

This is actually a neat story idea. But alas not quite the truth of it. All I can say is stay tuned. I don't want to give all of it away. In fact I think I may have actually done that already, but it seemed necessary given the discussions.

Sure antracer, I know why you don't want to spend money on those provinces, but your goal is to make things more difficult for Milan.

To a point yes. And by using the big stuff. Not by micromanaging missionaries. You can see the issues we had in trying to micromanage culture. It's easy to get too bogged down in it. I strive to make a big move that effects all the little moves more so than alot of little moves amounting to a somewhat big move. And you have to remember: My poor walnut has a very difficult time with micro management...

The Secret Order is not ultimately in control; it directs.

Ahhhh. Here be the root of misunderstanding...

I can now see that my plan is working... This is exactly the kind of statement Milanese citizens will find themselves saying, not realizing the truth that it's all about control...

All this talk about Spice, but I don't recall seeing it as a trade good

Yes, there be what look to be chili peppers pictured in the provinces with this wonderful trade good. It's a middle of the road value wise, similar to coffee and sugar... Well worth the work. It's also fairly rare, and has nice "pockets" or clusters of provinces to deal with, so it's a good for the role play. Throw in Salt, also a spice, and you have all the makings of a good stew if you happen to run a ship of cattle aground...

And as Sir Malurous says, India and the Far East are good places for it. There's also usually a few down Mexico/South America way too. Just the thing to get us involved with the British later on...

T

 

[Malurous]

It's just what the translation said, which is another reason I believe it to be related to a person as opposed to a color. IIRC from my German class, personal address or articles that addressed a person were capitalized in the formal. It looked pretty formal...

I also get "Traforare le Maniche Da" for "Pink Sleeves From". However, I also get "Traforare le Maniche da" for "Pink Sleeves from".

As far as I know, Italian is exactly opposite to German in this sense: there are less capitalizations than in English.

I think somewhere in the middle of where you're looking. I don't believe Naval will be adequate, nor will it be much fun. I am thinking it has to be a Spice "Road", a direct path back to Lombardia with small shipping allowed between Islands or similar. I'd also want to have more than one route for safety purposes. From a role play perspective, a short route you could take in summer and a longer route you would have to take in winter... (?)

I also think given the number of provinces and nations involved, I'd have to have a controlling interest in any nation I was dealing with. I wouldn't want one province here and there. Too easy for an enemy to kick me out and too hard for me to defend without a boat load of transports outside every harbor to have a place to retreat to. That could mean more than one war with any decent sized nation to gain enough ground to be considered safe and stable.

Sounds fine to me. Far enough from "we'll just conquer everything, spice provinces included" but still manageable.

I can now see that my plan is working... This is exactly the kind of statement Milanese citizens will find themselves saying, not realizing the truth that it's all about control...