I think the flag is cool, and no, no ripoffs from sci fi movies for names (looking at you here Mr T), Millenia is OK, I think
i'd like Milania better but we can think on it a little bit can't we? Like say after the religious issue is settled when the republic as Sir Ahriman says " especially as our change of religion will make everyone hate us, and not encourage anyone to like us seeing as no other country has turned reformed"
That was a good flick I thought. Quirky, a little far fetched and silly. But it was OK. I can't believe I didn't make the connection, even after googling it for spelling...
I think waiting to rename and reflag until after the Religious events is wise. Lets let the REFormed persons take control of the nation before letting them name it...
Lombardia > Milan > Milania > Millenia
I don't see how the fact that our primary culture is Lombard would make Lombardia any less appealing. It seems most fitting especially since the ruling elite of our country - the founding fathers of the republic - all shared this similar heritage/culture. It would be the cultural legacy of this core of the nation (Lombardy) that would represent the republic, inspire its various peoples, and be the admiration of the world.
I can see the appeal in this. And it does fit to an extent, but I have two issues with it. First, it was a real part of Italy, with it's own flag and herald, as you are aware of. If I were to go that route, I would use the flag that you had posted way back when. We're going in a different and unique direction, way beyond Lombardia.
Second, I'd say that's a bit too far in a centralized Direction. Yes, our nation was founded in the collection of states ruled by Lombardia... But the collection of states is the key part of that. And the continuous collection of states that has propagated our survival and expansion. I want the name to embody that, yet not forget that original collection.
We were never Lombardia, We were Milan. We are Milan.
We're going to be the new Milan.
Both Milan and Lombardia have interesting histories... I just got sidetracked reading through them again.
It's interesting to note the similarities in what happened to Milan IRL compared to what we're doing. Minus all the expansion...
My basic point regarding the flag is that I want to see the snake somewhere. Face it: that's what you notice when you see the Milanese flag. So your flag does a good job representing that.
The original I worked on used the Visconti Drake, but I thought that a bit confining, and not really representing our nation as it will become. In our case, the snake becomes all that we "eat", or take out of the world. Also, being a representative "Hand of God", it wasn't appropriate to be a snake for obvious reasons...
When it comes to the name, I want to see Milan in it. Milania is decent. Still my preference (if you want to drop the simplicity that is "Milan") is Milanese Empire. That would fit with the great nations like the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire.
I agree 100%. That's been the rub for me from the get go. Even changing to Italy at this point sacrifices who we are, even though that's who we are...
I have to say if it were me, The Milanese Empire would get my vote...
Or The Milanese Republic... I'd use Milan as a descriptor for origin, and the add on to define the nation as to what it is.
It should be noted that the way I played it was just stupid. I didn't prepare for the conversion - I just did it for giggles in a situation that didn't support it.
It hurt me a lot. It was really fun to do though (I had a couple of major wars when my economy was in shambles, and it was
extremely satisfying to come out of them alive), but it took me three or four decades, to be frank, to get where I was before. Maybe two or three to be normally competitive. An idiotic conversion like that can be done, no question, but make sure you have something like 3000 ducats (my approximation of what you'd need in your situation compared to my situation. I could be way off) in the bank before even trying that. You need a LOT of spare cash if you want cope with an idiotic conversion. You're going to get nasty events and, therefore, you need some leeway. Anyway, it took me 20-30 years to control the rebels enough to actually go for expansion again. Still, it was one heckuva ride.
(You can probably tell that 98 % of the time was spent handling rebels.)
The only thing I lost was time. I didn't really care about that in that situation
I'm not looking for a REB fest by any means. It looks like we'll really have to think this conversion through, possibly mandating a start date. I can see the thrill at watching me fight REB after REB, and given my detailed style, I'm sure you guys want to read 4 updates of "Fought REBs in XYZ, here's the pic"...
I know the feeling. As I've already said in this thread, I completed my studies just before Christmas. Therefore, I had very little time to do, well, anything before that. One thing that had to be first in the queue in that situation was the latest Sapkowski book. In my mind, it's THE best fantasy stuff that's been written after Tolkien's death. I know this sounds extreme but the books are just that good.
I am actually looking forwards to a trip to the book store for the first time in awhile...
A comparison to Tolkien... Hear that
Sir draik...? Sounds like good stuff. Who would have thought we'd have a complete library department in the secret order...?
Hmmm... Lots of discussion while I slept through the night.
Sleep...? Real Knights don't sleep... They "nap"... :rofl:
I actually prefer not using Lombardia - it does feel like a bit of a regression. And these lands were conquered under the name of Milan, so we should try to keep close to that name if possible (even changing the name is a concession from my side
) - so the Milanese Empire or the Millennial Empire would work for me, though I prefer the former to the latter. And nice work on the flag, antracer.
I think this sums up quite a few sentiments rather nicely... Now if we can all just agree...
The aristocracy/plutocracy discussion is interesting - perhaps to include another thought: on the RP side, running a large republic doesn't entirely neccessitate going plutocracy. In this period a large proportion of the wealthy in areas throughout the world, but especially in Europe, were the local aristocracy. A case could certainly be made for co-opting the local nobles for support (Aristocracy) while giving rights to the peasantry (Free Subjects), all held together by a good dollop of religious zealotry (Narrow Minded). This approach also seems to work well with the handcuffs we're looking for, at least for two of the sliders, so that's my final position.
We should aim for Aristocracy, Free Subjects and Narrow Minded.
These are good points... I don't think you'll convince
Sir nsahn with it, but it sounds a good argument.
As he and
Sir OrangeYoshi point out, the Republic nature of our program interferes with the Aristocracy side of things. We need to find a way to work that out, and I think you're on to something here that may help.
This fits very well with where I was going, and I thank you for the ammunition... But I fear we may actually end up with forcing that slider to the center, taking nothing from either side... Both sides of the argument are correct, and both have valid, substantial arguments. I can't see forcing either side to bear the cross of the other. It's not like the name debate where we HAVE to name the country. We don't HAVE to have this slider either way.
I like the idea of being a force-converting authority that extends the REFormed ways without actually taking the lands ourselves - it would be very interesting to see just how far we could make REFormed spread by end-game, while still extending East if that's what we want to do.
As long as we aren't looking for wars to do it in, at least until we're set at home. And I'd like the authority to put the goal of going East before the goal of conversion. It would get boring in a hurry to fight all over Europe just to spread religion. Especially without the means... well the go ahead. I have the means.
...to cut nations down, I'd be stuck in religious BB wars for the rest of the game. Which may be exactly what you're looking for...???
I felt the same way when I started work last year. Varsity was the time of freedom and indolence, now I have to choose what I want to do most: read, watch series or play games (and those three have to fit in between loads of church commitments and sports at least twice a week, if not more). I don't like having to choose!
Welcome to life as an adult. The whole rest of the time on the planet is one big choose. After a quarter century of it, I'm ready for some not choosing. But as the song goes...
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...
I think
Sir draik's last post pretty much sums up everything rather nicely. I'd like to get a shot at playing in, hopefully before the weekend. I can stall the decisions for this round, as I want to see REF pop before we go too far with everything. It'll give us a good idea as to what kind of time frame we're looking at.
I also want to hammer out the culture issue for future conquests... Just how far are going down that road. What kind of limits and what kind of outs do I have. I'm not referring to accepted culture, I'm referring to the handcuffs. Is it even necessary given the religious conversion requirement should REF pop anywhere near us...?
I'm off to work. I'll mull it over today and see what I can think of. I'll post a rough draft of final answers after I get home tonight.
To arms...!
T
