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unmerged(69928)

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A quill, the peacock itself, some lemons......
You editing files or making me dinner...?

Well, if I were to bet on our collective insomnia, I will say tomorrow morning(ish). :D
It will be in the wee hours by the looks of things.

The wife keeps giving me 'those' looks every time I try to steal away... :D

In the morning gents... Alas I must away...

T
 

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An update indeed, what a crappy king. But any old king to declare war...

And to die storming a castle, or leading the charge.

Heck, feeding the horses...

T

Update in 3... 2... 1...
 

Enewald

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And to die storming a castle, or leading the charge.

Heck, feeding the horses...

T

Update in 3... 2... 1...

Half an hour? :p

I know more techs are needed for the republic, that's why I demand an revolution.
Btw, I ran into 'Black Hound of Han' while I was reading Sun Tzu I think. :p
Very mysterious. :D
 

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Chapter 13: Always After Me Lucky Charms...​

The New Year. 1432. After many bleak winters, the last few months have seen a streak of luck that one sees only rarely, if at all. A grand series of events, beginning with the hiring of our Philosopher, culminating in a DoW on Bavaria which brings us into a war which may net us the province of Salzburg on BB clearance AND allow us to establish our longed for land bridge between the mighty P's of Parma and Pisa.

Though I wonder how long the lucky streak will hold, I find it's not done yet when I convert my paltry excuse for a monarch into a bonafied leader of military men:

PR_281.jpg


Sure, he don't look like much. But that +2 shock is deceptive. In 'charge' of an all CAV army of decent size, it's more than enough to do the dispatching needed for this war.

And to be honest, the last time I had a 3-3-3 Monarch he had one fire pip. That's it. Just one fire pip. Talk about a Dudly Do Away With...

By the end of the week, I receive word that Switzerland and the Papal State will be send troops along for the ride. I love to have a few loyal vassals. Not many mind you, then they just get in the way and cause attrition that makes you sicker than too many rides on the tilt a whirl... But a few is always a nice thing to have. Them paying you for the privilege is simply priceless...

The battle plan is rather simple this time around:

PR_282.jpg


The main CAV force will be concerned with eliminating the main Bavarian army, a 6/8/0 stack with alot of maneuver but little fire power. My make believe general is actually more effective, but alot will depend upon arriving before the Bavarian troops. This will be a little difficult, and will probably mean a little more ping pong than usual.

The 4K INF from Görz will proceed to Schwaben and set up shop while the Trent INF sweep around the Bavarian main army and sneak into Salzburg.

Once the main CAV army has 'creamed' the Bavarians, it will be dispatched to break the few sieges Bavaria's allies have going, and then will be split up to blanket siege everything possible.

To the south, a collection of INF and CAV culled from around the region will converge on Ferarra, first taking any opposition forces out and then sieging. The Papal State will take care of Modena, I won't have to do a thing.

I have a few CAV being made just in case, and will probably build a few more, just to make sure I have one good sized stack left for the inevitable rebellion, and to enable the broken off CAV units to swing over into Wurttemburg.

Finally I'll send some units up north and take care of Cleves, whom I'll probably Vassalize. I love vassalizing the HRE...

Brandenburg...? We'll have to see. It's realistically too far away to be considered a 'Med Empire' territory, and I want to keep good sized nations whole up that way to encourage OPM disappearances. More than likely I'll just peace out with her. Now if I had 20 BB to play with it might be a different story, but I need to focus on what's around me right now.

Two battles in and it's pretty much a done deal:

PR_283.jpg


The enemy is fast, but she's outclassed badly. I have as many men on the ground as both Bavaria AND her allies. It's really just a matter of keeping attrition down if I can help it so my WE doesn't go too high...

Bavaria is cranking men out as fast as she can to the north, but in the south it's all over but the siegin':

PR_284.jpg


I've had to consolidate the CAV army once already. She's running shy of 10K now with 10 units assigned. The 5% Attrition I get caught with every other month isn't helping. I can time the attacks to avoid the hit, but the battles are lasting just long enough to trap me every other month.

I am hoping to get the main army done soon so I can blanket the place and stop all the jiffy pops that keep coming at me.

With the arrival of my 4K new CAV, I send them to meet up with a stray unit and put them under the care of our illustrious King. His first action is breaking the siege in Schwyz, which he does with proficiency enough.

A scant three days later, the battle report I have been waiting for finally comes:

PR_285.jpg


My last two CAV units have finished, the Bavarian 'army' is finished, all that's left is to siege everything in sight and finish...

My 2nd CAV force is increased to 6K, and clears away the remaining units from Wurttemburg. The only Kink in the works is a decent sized revolt in Trent. The main CAV army has to come down and deal with it.

It too has been cut down to 6K, as I have 2K siege units all over Bavaria covering the provinces I don't have INF for. As the CAV finally wipes the rebels, I have 7 provinces going in the siege works:

PR_286.jpg


With the writing on the wall, the peace deals start coming in. The first is from Ferarra, who insists we pay them 51 ducats to end there misery. I tell them they don't know what misery is yet... The second comes from Bavaria, who simply wants out. Calm, rational... I still tell them to get bent.

Word quickly spreads of our victories, and our people respond with glee:

PR_287.jpg


Before the year is out, Schwaben and Niederbayern fall to our forces. The Papal State wraps up Modena and then pops over into Ferarra just as it falls. They don't even stop as the swing around home.

On Christmas morning I give myself a present:

PR_288.jpg


One official objective is now complete. I leave Ferarra alone with the hopes another nation will take her down and eliminate the 6BB it'll take me to get it, unless of course I have a few 6 star diplomats show up unexpectedly...

The siegers from Schwaben are put under the command of my general with the +2 maneuver and sent northwards towards the home of the mighty HRE...

My current BB is running 25.36/28... Still room for a couple of provinces.

By November of 1433 I have control of everything except Brandenburg:

PR_289.jpg


All that's left is to sort out the peace deals.

First up, time for a new HRE...:

PR_290.jpg


The new big man on campus hails from Baden. It's good to know the members of that fine organization have chosen someone who can really make a difference for them.

Next up I try to get Brandenburg to white peace out, just to get them out, but they respectfully decline. Somehow they feel they have the where with all to march half way across Europe and actually do something. I wish the game took distance into account. If it does, it doesn't give it enough to make a difference. I know you think you can go take Switzerland or the Papal State... But do you honestly think I'll just sit back and watch you do it...? You'll be dead before you make it to the province.

I decide to just peace out Bavaria instead of messing with it. I could a gone up there and maybe got a few ducats, but the way my luck usually runs they'd be fresh out. (which given the current streak we're in is a totally asinine statement to make, really...)

As it stands, I catch Bavaria at a good time...:

PR_291.jpg


I can live with this. Given our handcuffs and our King, we more than made out OK here. The three provinces are good, solid lands, and they effectively neutralize two potential threats to the north in Bavaria and Austria. Should we decide later on, or should the opportunity present itself, we can continue actions up north. They also act as nice buffers against Bohemia and any number of OPM's. The only pressing matter is the core on the Bavarian capitol.

Of much more interest to me is the world to the south and east...

In the end, we just squeak under the hard cap:

PR_292.jpg


By 0.25... That's a little too close, but hey, when the opportunity strikes you have to go for it if you can. That was just too nice a setup to pass up.

The rest of the session plays out rather unspectacularly.

The replacement of our aging diplomat with another 2 star gives us a good 10 years or so before having to worry about replacing him at all.

We managed to fight the entire war without incurring much, if any, extra WE. By not taking war taxes, we were able to remove as much as we got. As of April, 1434, we sit at a great big goose egg in the exhaustion category...

During this time there were a few rebellions, nothing major. All are put down with little fanfare.

I decided to use some of the free cash to build a run of Temples to help with STAB costs later. Though I don't sense alot of need for them right away, if this last run of luck has shown us anything it's 'hey, you never know'...

We manage to pull Trade Tech 6 and Production Tech 7, both very much on track at this time. In fact the only lagging tech is Naval, and that more by choice. Given the rocky start, the run of bad and then the run of good, We could have been a level down across the board by now. The fact we're not is a very good indication of the type of foundation we have.

In our last year, the people are again complaining about the Bailiff, so it's another 5 prestige to wipe away along with the bailiff himself. This event is almost as much fun as that other event that shall remain nameless that relieves you of a STAB point either way.

The great nation of Purple(ish) Milan ends up with 8 new temples built, and in May She finally completes the mission to build herself a Navy. Our reward...? Make Mainz vote for us. UGH. Glad I held on to that cancel now, aren't you...? I cancel that puppy right away.

Our new mission...?

PR_293.jpg


Now that's more like it...

In the waning months of 1437, we get another shot of good luck:

PR_294.jpg


Now you can tell me that it's coincidence that this guys name is "Luchino." Sure it's a little off, but I can call him LUCKino if I want... Yep, you can tell me it's just random whatever all you want... But you'd have better luck selling outboard boat motors to desert nomads. You couldn't have scripted this any better if you wanted too. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to out and get a few lottery tickets...

Next up is the proverbial SoftK* address.

This marks the first time the people will get to see their new King, as the address will be his first order of business...

I'm looking forward to meeting him, aren't you...?

Till then.

T

*State of the Kingdom
 

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Feb 25, 2007
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Half an hour? :p
I tried pressing the fast forward to make it go faster, but it didn't work...

That and having to re-write a few parts... :p

I know more techs are needed for the republic, that's why I demand an revolution.
So what do we want to re-volt... Batteries...? The castle's electrical system...? A few thunderstorms...? Ben Franklin...?

Or maybe we can all hang out and listen to Beatles records...?

Btw, I ran into 'Black Hound of Han' while I was reading Sun Tzu I think. :p
Very mysterious. :D

Any trace of where he was talking about or referencing...?

I'd hate to think he's got you named after a dog's paw or something... :D

T
 

Enewald

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Black Hound of Han shall remain a mystery for a long time unless some historian who knows everything about the Han-dynasty decides to explain it to me. :p
Black Hound, and Hound of Han have so many possible meanings. :wacko:

But it shall sound cool, as long as no one understands it. :cool:

Get some diplomat-advisers to burn that BB! ;)
 

Enewald

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To put a rein on an able general while at the
same time asking him to suppress a cunning enemy
is like tying up the Black Hound of Han and then
ordering him to catch elusive hares.
-Sun Tzu

Here. :D

Now you explain it. :D
 

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Feb 25, 2007
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Black Hound of Han shall remain a mystery for a long time unless some historian who knows everything about the Han-dynasty decides to explain it to me. :p
Black Hound, and Hound of Han have so many possible meanings. :wacko:

But it shall sound cool, as long as no one understands it. :cool:
It sounds cool regardless... :cool:

Get some diplomat-advisers to burn that BB! ;)

Oh that I would. Handcuffs are only fun until the bleeding starts...


Here. :D

Now you explain it. :D

"He that wears many condoms has no heir..."

:D

T
 

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Nice update. Btw, have you given thought to your next National Idea; I usually pick Press Gangs. The amount of money it saves you is tremendous and you save more money the earlier you adopt it.

I'm just getting there actually. Given the need of a heavy Naval presence, I figure it will be an idea sooner rather than later. The two at 9 and 11 aren't too far apart, so 2nd/3rd is fairly comparable. I can guarantee you it'll be chosen no later than 4... It is an NI I take any time I play any sort of nation requiring Naval services, not only for the decreased ship costs, but I can run over the force limit without incurring much of a penalty.

Bear in mind, my modded ideas aren't the same as vanillas... IIRC Press Gangs gives -33%, not -50%.

T
 

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Sweet update and the crappy king is no more...Whether "Lucky" Luchino is really lucky is yet to be determined.

Well, I kind of shot myself in the foot there... The luck was all from the philosopher, and in going through the pics it appears at some point I traded him in for an Alderman... :eek:

I am hoping 'Lucky' lives up to his name...

T
 

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State of the Kingdom: 1438​

"Ladies and Gentleman of the Court, Loyal Citizens and any one else who happens to be listening in on Radio Free Milan, Welcome. This is an historic day for all of us, for today our new King makes his first public appearance and first public address."

"Many in the nation have wondered what this new King will bring to the nation. His coronation was shrouded in secrecy, held in a small chapel in the middle of the night. The few witnesses to the event spoke of the Pope himself attending the ceremony that took all of 20 minutes to perform."

"We know that King 'Lucky' Luchino II has been a virtual recluse since assuming the throne, and all in the nation have looked to this day with great anticipation... I hear that the King has made his entrance... We take you there live for the State of the Kingdom address..."


(The King quietly walks across the dais to the podium... Gone are the multitude of regalia that once dressed the stage. It now stands simply, almost spartan for such a royal surrounding. The King himself looks remarkably average, his medallion and ring the only tell of his position. As he reaches the podium, he lays a few papers down in front of him, looking down and verifying their arrangement for one last time. He takes a final deep, steadying breath and begins to speak...)

"My countryman, my citizens, my nation. It is a great day to be alive. It is a great day to be Milan. The recent events that have taken place have insured our place in this continent of Europa, and all who dwell on it have learned that our great Purple(ish), Milanese, Soon to be a Great Republic, Kingdom is not a nation to be taken lightly. In fact, it's not a nation to be taken at all. They have learned it is The Purple(ish) Milanese Kingdom that is soon to become a Republic that does the taking..."

"I stand before you today a privileged man. Few are those that are chosen to lead, and fewer still are chosen to lead a nation such as this into greatness. What we have accomplished so far is but the beginning..."

"As I speak, plans are being made for an undertaking that will reclaim for Milan, and for all Christendom, the birth and death place of the Almighty Son of God. I feel it is my personal calling to go and to take back the Holy Land of Jerusalem from those that occupy it..."

(The King pauses for a short moment, letting this news sink in. The reaction is one of mixed emotions, joy, glory and fear all intermingled with the dread of war...)

"I fully realize that this is a great undertaking, and I understand the sacrifice involved. But everyone must know that I have been given this charge by the Pope himself, as a way to prove to both God and man that what we have done is justified, right and true. To be blessed in this endeavor would show all the nations of the world that our recent actions were righteous, that we acted in faith and in truth, and that we took only what was rightfully ours."

"We will prevail. We will triumph. We will take Jerusalem... Glory to God...!"

"Well there you have it, Ladies and Gentlemen... The crowd isn't exactly going wild, but it seems most of the people have sided with the King. There are an obvious few detractors, most notably high council members Castillione and Buffoni..."

Remember to to tune in on Friday, when Radio Free Milan will present a one on one interview with the new King. Our own Matt Spencerelli will be asking the King the hard questions in the only interview to be granted with his Majesty, so do join us for that will you...?

We now head to the studio for some in depth analysis of the speech and the...


click.

Drivel.

I hate drivel.

Talking heads and pundits making a living twisting facts and words to create panic and fear.

All I need are facts.

Like these for example:

First up, the Updated Purple(ish) Milanese Kingdom, Soon to be a Republic Register of Sir Knights:

PR_294_KREG.jpg


The addition of Sir nsahn, The knight of ITALIA brings us to four, leaving more than a few spots left at our table.

Purple(ish) Milan honors men (or women) that become noteworthy for ideas, outspokenness and ingenious twisting of the established norm by offering them a seat at the Royal Table. The Knights of the realm and the Eternal Knight number 13 in all, so there are appointments available...

Here we have the current Kingdom Statistical Data...

The Governmentally related stuff:

PR_295_GOVT.jpg


That which is related to the Budget:

PR_296_BDGT.jpg


That which is related to our Armed Forces and Navy:

PR_297_ARMY.jpg


Our current Policies:

PR_298_SLID.jpg


These next documents show our relative position compared to the rest of the world.

Income Level Comparison:

PR_299_S-INC.jpg


Technology Levels Comparison:

PR_300_S-TECH.jpg


Standing Army and Navy Comparison:

PR_301_S-ARMY.jpg


PR_302_S-NAVY.jpg


I'm Hungry, How About Some Pie...:

PR_303_S-PIES.jpg


And finally our current COT situation:

PR_304_S-COTS.jpg


Not much to show on the other maps, and the big map isn't changed much. I'll include those next SoftK.

After work this evening I'll fire up the studio and get open mike night started. As it stands now, we're in major BB mode burn off again, so it looks the only options we have for picking a fight is across the pond.

The good news is a decent monarch, which if we're lucky, we can ride to an appropriate GOVT tech where we can change to a Republic... We may not get there before the next slider move, but I would imagine a Noble REP will be doable the next phase after...

Hot topics for this upcoming stint...:

-The Mamluks and You... Quest for the Holy Land.
-That OTT to do it... Going after the Big Green Machine.
-I'm Hungary...
-The Northern Coast... The Pirate Vacation Destination...
-Going 'Nobile' vs Waiting for Merch REP... -1 central worth the 4 year vote difference?
-Will we get that elusive 1st Core...?
-Who will step up and be Knighted next...?

Till then...!

T
 

blsteen

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If you're going to go into real estate in the levant, you'll have make sure to grab minimum two, better four provinces for consolidation. Which provinces all depends on how deeply you want to get involved in the region. But since you're going for some version of Med Empire I vote for Judea, Gaza, Sinai and Hawran (or whatever that inland prov from judea is). This breaks the Mam's in half and positions you for a drive on alexandria, syria and eventually mecca.
 

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Updated Strategic Initiatives... 1438 First Edition
Another season has come and gone, and with it the accomplishing of some actual objectives. We have an excellent foot hold in Europe proper, we have a scant 15 years or so to our first cores, and are moving along nicely in the techs that matter.

So, first up I think we can start with what can be scratched off the list or should be rewritten now that the objective has changed.

Also note that we've had some back and forth and votes and opinions presented previously... But as the actual decision comes near I'd like to start clean, so everyone can take the current national position into account and not just vote favorites. K?

Stuff We've Actually Accomplished, or at least Partially Accomplished:

Ferarra:

Annex: Sir Enewald, Rabid*, kfijatass, enkhuush, antracer
Vassalize: -none-
Ignore: Rabid*
*If BB allows. If BB is too high, form Italy instead.

Enkhuush states the plan: "Wait for opportunity"

Well, Enkhuush, we followed that advice. The land bridge is complete, and Ferarra is now an OPM. They were not vassalized however... I left them to be gobbled up by someone else. I will relax my GTYs and Alliances in the region to allow for Naples or Tuscany to become ambitious, and hopefully annex them. If not, we'll handle it when BB cools off.

Stuff we can actually do in the next 12 years...:

The Pope... Annexation and you:

I now have the requisite time and relations to annex Roma, although she is currently at 'maybe'. Those that know me know I don't really pay attention to this. We have an actual decent monarch, and with a little BB burn off our chances of getting it will be pretty decent.

So:

Annex The Pope and Make Him Move:

Keep the Pope 'On a Rope' as a Vassal:

Me personally, I want to annex him and make him move. Just the thought of him having to travel across Europe with his Pope Mobile packed racked and stacked like the Beverly Hillbillies truck makes mine a better day...

Grand Centralization:

IF we annex the Papal Estate, the next slider move should be to centralization to make up for the diplo annex, so we don't lose any ground.

IF we choose to keep the Pope as a Vassalized Ally, Then we have an opportunity to burn a move on Aristocracy, for to help our CAV situation. We are currently paying a little more for our Land forces because of our current slider positions, and the shock bonus won't hurt a bit.

So:

Centralized:

Aristocracy:

Others ???

I'm thinking Central again to make up for the annex of the Papal Estate.

Getting serious about taking the Holy Land:

We have two options depending on how we can get into it and how committed we have to be. I personally want to hold off at first and see if the Mams start collapsing again, or if they get into it with another large nation again. In other words, I'd like to kick her when she's down to minimize the forces I have to dedicate to an invasion.

We also have to identify the targets. Do we start with Alexandria to take the COT, to bring it along to core sooner...? Or do we go after Jerusalem for the missionary and prestige bonus...?

Ideally, as has been suggested by blsteen, we will need a good sized chunk of real estate. He suggests taking the center out of the country and splitting them in half.

Take Alexandria: antracer
Take Jerusalem:

I would prefer to take Alexandria first and work east. One, because we'll have only one front to fight on as opposed to two, and two because the sooner the COT cores the better. I would be very concerned about having Mams on two sides, especially if they should gain a potent ally.

Thrace: Potential COT Site and Important Land Bridge...

Sir nsahn says: Take Thrace before the Ottomans. If you get to it before the OE does, then it will remain Greek culture (the OE will move their capital their once they capture it an change it to Turkish culture). Proceed to take the rest of Greece and Greek should become an accepted culture; a boon to any Mediterranean empire. You should also be able to set up a COT in Thrace.

This almost guarantees war with the OTTs in the near future. Currently our nations are similarly sized, with similar Armies. We do however enjoy a slight advantage on the sea, and we have the ship yard in Venezia which will allow us an advantage in reinforcements.

The naval advantage may be enough to block the north from the OTTs, allowing us to take the Greek culture provinces there... All that remains is to decide when and how, and whether we get the attention of the Mams first.

Ignore it: -none-
Take it: Sir nsahn

This is a tough one. If we mix it up with the Mams, we can say goodbye to this. I figure we'll have to take a good look at Thrace and see what's up. If she's still available, and we can weasel in on the BB cheap, maybe we got a shot at it.

Maybe not this time, but next time...:

I think it's pretty well been decided we're going to be a Republic. So the question now is when do we jump...?

We are going to be faced with the choice of 'Going Nobile' at GOV Tech 10, or waiting for two tech levels and going for the Merchant Republic at 12.

Noble REP gives us a -1 central allowance, but has an 8 year vote cycle. Merchant REP has little to offer slider wise, but has a 4 year vote cycle.

Is the potential to get rid of a bad leader 4 years earlier worth the free central move to -1...?

Is it better to have the jump made earlier...? If we keep our current ruler, it's not a big deal, but if he dies and I get another 3-3-3 stray, I'd want to jump at 10 just to get him gone. No matter which way we go, we're going Administrative Republic at 19, and they both cost us -1 STAB to change, so there's nothing there to hinder our decision.

Which do we want...? Noble of Merchant...?

I was thinking Merchant, but now I'm thinking Noble. Thoughts...?

The Big List Of Stuff That's still being bantered about but hasn't really been decided yet...:

Forming Italy and turning Pukey Green vs Retaining Our Purple(ish) Milanese Heritage:

Go Italian: Rabid, Devilmay, quicksabre, Iain Wilson, kfijatass, Sir nsahn, sjones25

Go Milano: Sir Enewald, marty99, Sir Beamed, urdh, enkhuush, SolisDF, Sir OrangeYoshi, antracer

Protestant bound:

Go PRO: quicksabre, Rabid, Sir OrangeYoshi (game play points to PRO all the way...), blsteen, Sir nsahn, antracer

Stay Cathy: kfijatass, marty99, urdh, Throne

Be the REF: Sir Beamed, enkhuush, Sir Enewald

The Long Range Forecast: Other Stuff We Get To Decide On Too

Cultural Significance: Should we pursue accepted cultures as an objective?:

I'd like some feedback on this one...

As suggested by Sir nsahn: "Culture goals for antracer: Lombard, Umbrian, Sicilian ( these two will become accepted when you form Italy), Austrian, Greek, and Turkish (I don't think you will be able to get anymore than this)."

I actually like this idea. I don't know that I can limit everything to accepted culture or not, but having a majority? Making a stipulation that I must take all provinces of a specific culture if I take one...? As an alternative to mindless conquest, this seems a plausible, albeit difficult goal. I look forward to the thoughts on this. Combined with a Reformed religion decision, I think my handcuffs are getting a little tight... :D

Taking Japan as the end game:

Suggested by sjones25, as an alternative to the standard fare. He writes: "I say you should forget France, Europe, and the Americas. Go down through Greece and fight off the Ottomans then beat up the Mamalukes and take Judea and Mecca (because you'll get Rome eventually, and having all 3 would just be cool. You might not use them much, but it be fun to take them all). Then head off to the Timruids (if they're still around), India and East Asia! The end goal would be to conquer Japan!"

This is nother idea I'd like to see bantered about a bit. The time has come to make some long range plans. What we do the next 2 or three stretches will depend alot on where we're trying to go, so let's hear some thoughts on this or other ideas if you want to end up somewhere else.

Austria: There's GOLD in them there hills.

Sir nsahn writes..."Go for Austria sometime down the road. You will certainly have it as an accepted culture when Gorz cores and could possibly have Austrian remain an accepted culture for the rest of the game (also think of the gold)."

The GOLD part of this mission is accomplished. The cultural side is not.

Trading Ideology:

Mercantile: Sir Enewald, quicksabre, Rabid, Sir OrangeYoshi, enkhuush, Sir nsahn, antracer
Free Trade: kfijatass

quicksabre says "You have to go merc"... Sounds settled to me...

Mediterranean Empire or Colonizing Force:

Med Empire: quicksabre, kfijatass, Sir Beamed, sjones25, antracer
Colonizer...: Rabid
Both of 'em: Sir Enewald, marty99, blsteen, Sir OrangeYoshi, enkhuush, Sir nsahn
Womanizer: -none-

Land or Naval:

Land: quicksabre, kfijatass,OrangeYoshi
Naval: Rabid, Sir nsahn (+1 or +2, just to give the colonies a boost...)
Balanced: Sir Enewald, enkhuush (One slider movement to land.), antracer

When to have to engage France:

Early: Sir Enewald, Sir nsahn
Late: kfijatass
If at all: Rabid, Sir OrangeYoshi, sjones25
Whenever they make it necessary: antracer
Make all Cosmopolitan provinces a Latin culture!: Sir Beamed
Ignore them for now...!: enkhuush

No New World:

Yes New World: Sir Enewald, Rabid, , marty99, blsteen, enkhuush
No New World: kfijatass, quicksabre, Sir OrangeYoshi, sjones25
Only Islands: Sir nsahn, antracer

Can't touch Portugal:

Leave her be: kfijatass
Just Watch Me: Sir Enewald
Better Earlier: Sir nsahn
Not Until Late: -none-
Just Colonies: Rabid, antracer
You allow to exist...? (ie; destroy... destroy...): enkhuush
Forget them completely: sjones25

The corniness of the AAR:

Appreciating it: marty99 :cool:
Let's see what happens: enkhuush
Don't Care: The rest of the world

So there we have it. Alot of stuff to figure out.

Anybody except blsteen awake out there...?

Till next time...!

T
 

quicksabre

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Updated Strategic Initiatives... 1438 First Edition
The Pope... Annexation and you:
Make him move. he usually goes up to scandinavia or something so that might put it out of the question but it would be really awesome if you took rome and then vassalized the pope again later.


Getting serious about taking the Holy Land:
This really depends on your long-term objectives. If you go the cultural acceptance route you will probably have to ignore the holy land all together and focus on greece and turkey. That would be a cool objective but I don't quite think its feasible so I say go for the holy land as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

I think alexandria is the best starting point for the CoT. Jerusalem is great but you won't need the missionaries until the reformation so you don't need to take it right away. Prestige is good too but just keep conquering stuff and you won't have to worry about it :) The only argument I would consider is that alexandria is an expensive war score province so it is worth a lot in a peace deal if you occupy it, which would make the long-term conquest of the mamelukes easier.

Thrace: Potential COT Site and Important Land Bridge...
This is tempting but I am going to vote no. 1) I don't quite think you are ready for conflict with the otts yet (if someone demonstrates that you could pretty much pwn them, I might change my vote here... the straights just might make that possible...), and 2) I would like to see the holy land adventure make some progress.

Forming Italy and turning Pukey Green vs Retaining Our Purple(ish) Milanese Heritage:
wonder which you want? Depends on how much you want to handcuff yourself. I don't have anything for Italy in particular, but I dislike the idea of a nation named after a city taking over the mediterranean. Its just so ancient/classical. I think that part of emerging into the modern world is creating a real national identity out of a conglomeration of people uniting under one newly forged national identity. At some point you should make the push to become greater than milan - whether that's Italy or a new nation of your own choosing doesn't matter to me, but its all in the role playing :)

Making a stipulation that I must take all provinces of a specific culture if I take one...? As an alternative to mindless conquest, this seems a plausible, albeit difficult goal.
I really like this idea, too. If you think you can do full accepted cultures at games end I'd like to see it, but I'm not sure you can and the AAR might get a bit boring as you micromanage cores and release vassals to get your income right... like your idea, too. It fits really well with my 'national identity' thing, to own all of all cultures that you own.

edit for messed up quote formatting
 

Malurous

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Finally caught up, great AAR! Good humor (those hidden texts are nice), really sharp work with the screenshots, and I like the sense of community here. Also, that latest update was very successful. Without further ado, I'll delve into the debate...

The Pope... Annexation and you:

Annex. Rome is significant enough that eventually controlling the peninsula just wouldn't feel right without it.

Getting serious about taking the Holy Land:

The order in which you do things obviously depends on opportunity, but Alexandria is the way to go should you be fighting the Mamluks soon. Not only because of your and quicksabre's points (CoT, no heavy need for missionaries yet) but also because the high WS of the province makes this the right time to go after it. Your BB is so high that taking few high-price provinces instead of many cheaper ones is a good fit now.

Thrace: Potential COT Site and Important Land Bridge...

Going for Thrace and the rest of the Greek provinces to the extent of getting Greek accepted would require going on quite a rampage in the region and doing it rather soon. I'm not sure it's sensible even if it sounds swell. Also, it would create a lengthy, lengthy struggle with the Ottomans. It would severely limit going for other things while it lasts. And, when it comes to this part of the world, I prefer going after the Mamluks anyway in your situation.

Of course, should the Ottomans tarry, getting Thrace before them is a good idea, for a CoT site at least. I just don't think they will wait long enough that it's a convenient thing to do.

I think it's pretty well been decided we're going to be a Republic. So the question now is when do we jump...?

Noble, definitely. Not only is the Centralization loosening good to have, you'd instantly get sizable Policy Restriction penalties from your Aristocracy slider (and even more should you want to move further towards Aristocratic) if you went for Merchant Republic. As a bonus, you can get to Noble earlier.

Forming Italy and turning Pukey Green vs Retaining Our Purple(ish) Milanese Heritage:

I'm an AC Milan fan, so I like seeing the word.

Protestant bound:

I'm advocating Reformed for the rarity and subsequent coolness. As far as game play goes, Protestant would be the way to go (and it, like Reformed, would fit a Milanese Republic), but if I could choose one set of handcuffs for you to take it would be the Reformed set. If you end up forming Italy, then Catholic and a different role-playing approach.

Taking Japan as the end game:

I kind of like this idea. Anyway, anything that differs from the "take Europe and colonize America" approach for a European nation.

Trading Ideology:

Is this still a topic for debate? ;) Mercantilistic, of course, especially with your CoT policy.

Mediterranean Empire or Colonizing Force:

Med Empire, first and foremost.

Land or Naval:

Stay where you are for now. Future will show which way you should lean.

When to have to engage France:

When they make it necessary, but keep an eye open for an opportunity to take them down a notch. I.e. if you can kick them when they are down, do it. There's a good chance they either go for Switzerland or end up bordering you via conquest even if you don't expand in their direction anymore. This will probably lead to conflict. If it seems inevitable it would be a good idea to make sure you set the terms.

No New World:

No New World. As I stated, we've all seen it and done it enough times. If Yes New World, I trust you to make updates consisting of something else than colony spamfest.

Can't touch Portugal:

Don't go out of your way to kick their behind. If such a situation comes naturally, don't hesitate to obliterate.

The corniness of the AAR:

Hmm, for some reason I never found this AAR particularly corny :D
 

unmerged(69928)

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Feb 25, 2007
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Updated Strategic Initiatives... 1438 Next Edition
Enough has been posted to warrant a change to the counts, as well as some thought provoking thoughts that provoke other thoughts... Let's just say my thoughts were provoked, and it wasn't all my fault... ;)

Many thanks to quicksabre for another round of great input, complete with some disagreement :cool:...

Also help me bid welcome to a new strategist as Malurous joins the fray, and starts nicely... : Finally caught up, great AAR! Good humor (those hidden texts are nice), really sharp work with the screenshots, and I like the sense of community here. Also, that latest update was very successful. Without further ado, I'll delve into the debate... I think I'm actually blushing... :eek:o Let me say welcome, and please, post more. I like to blush occasionally...

So, on to the stuff that matters...

Stuff we can actually do in the next 12 or so years...:

The Pope... Annexation and you:

I now have the requisite time and relations to annex Roma, although she is currently at 'maybe'. Those that know me know I don't really pay attention to this. We have an actual decent monarch, and with a little BB burn off our chances of getting it will be pretty decent.

So:

Annex The Pope and Make Him Move: quicksabre, Malurous, antacer

Keep the Pope 'On a Rope' as a Vassal:

Old Votes from SU:1426- Have the Pope with his divisions vassalized for all eternity: Sir Enewald, quicksabre, blsteen, antracer

Me personally, I want to annex him and make him move. Just the thought of him having to travel across Europe with his Pope Mobile packed racked and stacked like the Beverly Hillbillies truck makes mine a better day... It means I changed my vote...! I like quicksabre's idea. I wonder how many times we can take, annex and move the Pope in one game...? Hey, quicksabre changed his vote too...!

quicksabre: "...but it would be really awesome if you took Rome and then vassalized the pope again later." -and again, and again... :p T

Malurous "Annex. Rome is significant enough that eventually controlling the peninsula just wouldn't feel right without it."

Grand Centralization:

IF we annex the Papal Estate, the next slider move should be to centralization to make up for the diplo annex, so we don't lose any ground.

IF we choose to keep the Pope as a Vassalized Ally, Then we have an opportunity to burn a move on Aristocracy, for to help our CAV situation. We are currently paying a little more for our Land forces because of our current slider positions, and the shock bonus won't hurt a bit.

So:

Centralized: quicksabre*, Malurous*

Aristocracy:

Others ???

*By virtue of voting to annex the Pope

I'm thinking Central again to make up for the annex of the Papal Estate.

Getting serious about taking the Holy Land:

We have two options depending on how we can get into it and how committed we have to be. I personally want to hold off at first and see if the Mams start collapsing again, or if they get into it with another large nation again. In other words, I'd like to kick her when she's down to minimize the forces I have to dedicate to an invasion.

We also have to identify the targets. Do we start with Alexandria to take the COT, to bring it along to core sooner...? Or do we go after Jerusalem for the missionary and prestige bonus...?

Ideally, as has been suggested by blsteen, we will need a good sized chunk of real estate. He suggests taking the center out of the country and splitting them in half.

Take Alexandria: quicksabre, Malurous, antracer
Take Jerusalem: blsteen

I would prefer to take Alexandria first and work east. One, because we'll have only one front to fight on as opposed to two, and two because the sooner the COT cores the better. I would be very concerned about having Mams on two sides, especially if they should gain a potent ally.

quicksabre: "I think Alexandria is the best starting point for the COT... The only argument I would consider is that Alexandria is an expensive war score province so it is worth a lot in a peace deal if you occupy it, which would make the long-term conquest of the Mamluks easier."

Malurous:"...also because the high WS of the province makes this the right time to go after it. Your BB is so high that taking few high-price provinces instead of many cheaper ones is a good fit now."

A little pattern developing here...?

Thrace: Potential COT Site and Important Land Bridge...

Sir nsahn says: Take Thrace before the Ottomans. If you get to it before the OE does, then it will remain Greek culture (the OE will move their capital their once they capture it an change it to Turkish culture). Proceed to take the rest of Greece and Greek should become an accepted culture; a boon to any Mediterranean empire. You should also be able to set up a COT in Thrace.

This almost guarantees war with the OTTs in the near future. Currently our nations are similarly sized, with similar Armies. We do however enjoy a slight advantage on the sea, and we have the ship yard in Venezia which will allow us an advantage in reinforcements.

The naval advantage may be enough to block the north from the OTTs, allowing us to take the Greek culture provinces there... All that remains is to decide when and how, and whether we get the attention of the Mams first.

Not Take It: quicksabre
Yes Take it: Sir nsahn

This is a tough one. If we mix it up with the Mams, we can say goodbye to this. I figure we'll have to take a good look at Thrace and see what's up. If she's still available, and we can weasel in on the BB cheap, maybe we got a shot at it.

quicksabre: "...If you go the cultural acceptance route you will probably have to ignore the holy land all together and focus on Greece and Turkey."

Malurous: "...it would create a lengthy, lengthy struggle with the Ottomans. It would severely limit going for other things while it lasts. And, when it comes to this part of the world, I prefer going after the Mamluks anyway in your situation... Of course, should the Ottomans tarry, getting Thrace before them is a good idea, for a COT site at least. I just don't think they will wait long enough that it's a convenient thing to do."

Maybe not this time, but next time...:

I think it's pretty well been decided we're going to be a Republic. So the question now is when do we jump...?

We are going to be faced with the choice of 'Going Nobile' at GOV Tech 10, or waiting for two tech levels and going for the Merchant Republic at 12.

Noble REP gives us a -1 central allowance, but has an 8 year vote cycle. Merchant REP has little to offer slider wise, but has a 4 year vote cycle.

Is the potential to get rid of a bad leader 4 years earlier worth the free central move to -1...?

Is it better to have the jump made earlier...? If we keep our current ruler, it's not a big deal, but if he dies and I get another 3-3-3 stray, I'd want to jump at 10 just to get him gone. No matter which way we go, we're going Administrative Republic at 19, and they both cost us -1 STAB to change, so there's nothing there to hinder our decision.

Going 'Nobe-ile' : Malurous

Going Merchant Republic:

Malurous echoed my original thought for Noble almost word for word. The only reason I like Merchant is the 4 year term... They can come in quite handy when excommunications start flying.

The Big List Of Stuff That's still being bantered about but hasn't really been decided yet...:

Forming Italy and turning Pukey Green vs Retaining Our Purple(ish) Milanese Heritage:

Go Italian: Rabid, Devilmay, quicksabre*, Iain Wilson, kfijatass, Sir nsahn, sjones25

Go Milano: Sir Enewald, marty99, Sir Beamed, urdh, enkhuush, SolisDF, Sir OrangeYoshi, Malurous, antracer

Go For Some Other Unified Country: quicksabre*

*Quicksabre: "Wonder which you want? Depends on how much you want to handcuff yourself. I don't have anything for Italy in particular, but I dislike the idea of a nation named after a city taking over the Mediterranean. Its just so ancient/classical. I think that part of emerging into the modern world is creating a real national identity out of a conglomeration of people uniting under one newly forged national identity. At some point you should make the push to become greater than Milan - whether that's Italy or a new nation of your own choosing doesn't matter to me, but its all in the role playing :)" -I don't think I left much doubt as to my preference... The notion of a new identity has been broached by Sir nsahn and Sir OrangeYoshi, to the extent of new flags and colors. Even my vision calls for Milan to become more than simply 'Milan'. I envision a grand federation of 'free' city states, The Purple(ish) Milanese Republic, minus the Purple(ish) part. In that sense, it's only natural that a city name would be the Herald, as it was the birth place of the Republic. There does seem to be a very large nationalist undercurrent... Perhaps there is more to this national identity thing that meets the eye. T

Malurous: "I'm an AC Milan fan, so I like seeing the word." -in direct contradiction to above, one has to wonder... is there really any better reason than this...? T

Protestant bound:

Go PRO: quicksabre, Rabid, Sir OrangeYoshi (game play points to PRO all the way...), blsteen, Sir nsahn, antracer

Stay Cathy: kfijatass, marty99, urdh, Throne

Be the REF: Sir Beamed, enkhuush, Sir Enewald, Malurous

Malurous: "...I'm advocating Reformed for the rarity and subsequent coolness. ...but if I could choose one set of handcuffs for you to take it would be the Reformed set." -sounds like someone has been talking to Sir Beamed... T

The Long Range Forecast: Other Stuff We Get To Decide On Too

Cultural Significance: Should we pursue accepted cultures as an objective?:

I'd like some feedback on this one...

As suggested by Sir nsahn: "Culture goals for antracer: Lombard, Umbrian, Sicilian ( these two will become accepted when you form Italy), Austrian, Greek, and Turkish (I don't think you will be able to get anymore than this)."

I actually like this idea. I don't know that I can limit everything to accepted culture or not, but having a majority? Making a stipulation that I must take all provinces of a specific culture if I take one...? As an alternative to mindless conquest, this seems a plausible, albeit difficult goal. I look forward to the thoughts on this. Combined with a Reformed religion decision, I think my handcuffs are getting a little tight... :D

quicksabre: "I really like this idea, too. If you think you can do full accepted cultures at games end I'd like to see it, but I'm not sure you can and the AAR might get a bit boring as you micromanage cores and release vassals to get your income right... like your idea, too. It fits really well with my 'national identity' thing, to own all of all cultures that you own." -this is a legitimate concern. I would never want to be boring. I leave that for cheese. T

Taking Japan as the end game:

Suggested by sjones25, as an alternative to the standard fare. He writes: "I say you should forget France, Europe, and the Americas. Go down through Greece and fight off the Ottomans then beat up the Mamalukes and take Judea and Mecca (because you'll get Rome eventually, and having all 3 would just be cool. You might not use them much, but it be fun to take them all). Then head off to the Timruids (if they're still around), India and East Asia! The end goal would be to conquer Japan!"

This is another idea I'd like to see bantered about a bit. The time has come to make some long range plans. What we do the next 2 or three stretches will depend alot on where we're trying to go, so let's hear some thoughts on this or other ideas if you want to end up somewhere else.

Malurous: "...I kind of like this idea. Anyway, anything that differs from the "take Europe and colonize America" approach for a European nation."

Austria: There's GOLD in them there hills.

Sir nsahn writes..."Go for Austria sometime down the road. You will certainly have it as an accepted culture when Gorz cores and could possibly have Austrian remain an accepted culture for the rest of the game (also think of the gold)."

The GOLD part of this mission is accomplished. The cultural side is not.

Trading Ideology:

Mercantile: Sir Enewald, quicksabre, Rabid, Sir OrangeYoshi, enkhuush, Sir nsahn, Malurous, antracer
Free Trade: kfijatass

quicksabre says "You have to go merc"... Sounds settled to me...

Mediterranean Empire or Colonizing Force:

Med Empire: quicksabre, kfijatass, Sir Beamed, sjones25, Malurous, antracer
Colonizer...: Rabid
Both of 'em: Sir Enewald, marty99, blsteen, Sir OrangeYoshi, enkhuush, Sir nsahn
Womanizer: -none-

Land or Naval:

Land: quicksabre, kfijatass,OrangeYoshi
Naval: Rabid, Sir nsahn (+1 or +2, just to give the colonies a boost...)
Balanced: Sir Enewald, enkhuush (One slider movement to land.), Malurous, antracer

When to have to engage France:

Early: Sir Enewald, Sir nsahn
Late: kfijatass
If at all: Rabid, Sir OrangeYoshi, sjones25
Whenever they make it necessary: Malurous, antracer
Make all Cosmopolitan provinces a Latin culture!: Sir Beamed
Ignore them for now...!: enkhuush

No New World:

Yes New World: Sir Enewald, Rabid, , marty99, blsteen, enkhuush
No New World: kfijatass, quicksabre, Sir OrangeYoshi, sjones25, Malurous,
Only Islands: Sir nsahn, antracer

Malurous: "No New World. As I stated, we've all seen it and done it enough times. If Yes New World, I trust you to make updates consisting of something else than colony spam fest." -at least the SPAM would go good with the cheese... T

Can't touch Portugal:

Leave her be: kfijatass, Malurous
Just Watch Me: Sir Enewald
Better Earlier: Sir nsahn
Not Until Late: -none-
Just Colonies: Rabid, antracer
You allow to exist...? (ie; destroy... destroy...): enkhuush
Forget them completely: sjones25

The corniness of the AAR:

Appreciating it: marty99 :cool:
Let's see what happens: enkhuush
Don't Care: The rest of the world
Has Never thought it Corny: Malurous
It's Delicious: The one who has to eat his words...

Many hours to go before I sleep...

Till next time...!

T
 

blsteen

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Cultural significance would be a hard row to hoe in some aspects but could be very worthwhile. As for the Med empire, Alexandria is great but you'll need a lot of WS to take it plus another province to provide a firm beachhead. I like the idea of checking thrace out to see the situation there. Because realistically, what kind of Med empire would you be without anatolia and the bosphorus at least paying homage if not have you practicing eminent domain and building a palace or two on top of some peasants shack. And India, India is always a cool place for conquerers who bestride the world to go.