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Daffius

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Victoria is my all time favorite p'dox game and would love to see a sequel. However IMHO the single biggest issue with this game is the name. You just don't sell a game named VICTORIA to gamers! People scroll past without having second thoughts.

Although, I'd live if they'd go for the niche build for Vicky brand aimed at hardcore number/economics junkies. Add strikes, add politics and agendas, add regional trade prices, add corporations, add multiple goods per province, add it all in... I enjoy learning things all the way.
 

blos10

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It's time for V3. The next step for the franchise is a large-scale refinement of the economic system. That means realistic tariffs, corporations, goods transportation/merchant navies, and so on, and all that really requires a new game. CK2 has been a gargantuan success despite CK1 being kind of crappy (I loved the game, but it was kind of crappy, let's be honest), so I think Victoria 3 has the potential to be a big seller even if past Victoria games haven't exactly been cash cows. To my mind, a spiffy new game that lets you import EUIV saves would be very appealing to the larger audience Paradox has brought in over the last few years.

Agree completely, we already have EUIV thatll last till about.. eh... to the end of time i suppose and another Vicky game after EvW with EUIV support has alot of potential and Vicky 2 got me started on gsgs and will be, and still is, my first love.
 

Wookie1

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I do seem to recall, that Paradox have already said that V2 will get another expansion, its just that what with EUIV, CK2 expansions and EvW they havent been the priority in the past year, I'd suggest that only by this time next year can you really talk about farewell patches or a V3 (which I struggle to see how it could be improved).
 

jba8472

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I'd like to see an expansion with a third starting scenario; most likely one that starts you right at the beginning of World War I (3 August 1914-ish). Alternatively an expansion that focuses on the Far East more would be interesting.
 

elcrapo

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A more realisitc representation of South America (with the Peru-Bolivian union, parts of Amazonia and Patagonia to colonize, new small releasable nations to split Brazil or Peru,...) will be my Christmas wish. ^^

Or a scenario starting just before Napoleonic wars (1780'ish).
 

VoodooEconomist

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People keep mentioning corporations. What exactly would corporations do to the game that isn't already represented by Capitalists groups? This wasn't the era of giant multinational companies we know today, so I can't see how inclusion of a microeconomic element in a macroeconomic oriented, country-level game would improve upon it.

And seriously: I'm not dismissive about the idea, I really want someone to convince me, because it sounds intriguing :)
 

wildbillhdmax01

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I do seem to recall, that Paradox have already said that V2 will get another expansion, its just that what with EUIV, CK2 expansions and EvW they havent been the priority in the past year, I'd suggest that only by this time next year can you really talk about farewell patches or a V3 (which I struggle to see how it could be improved).

This is what I'm hoping for!



Id say that with what we have been given in Vic2, it has been more than enough, and more than I expected and enjoy it all. But now its time for the sequel :)

That Time is somewhere before 2020 or after. So we have time to burn. I guess it depends on what PI has planned, and what's going on.
 

Oliver Twopence

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Well I would love Vic3. My understanding it will be, before or around 2020, and that's not set in stone. So it could be after 2020. Same with HOI4. Most think HOI4 will be 1st. So you have 6 years to go, or more. Why not one last Expansion before saying goodbye and abandoning it.

I'm good with what we got. Bring on V3 for 2020!

That better be well before 2020. If I have to wait six years for Victoria 3, I might as well slit my wrists right here and now.

What on earth do you imagine Paradox doing in the meantime, when "one major release a year" seems to be the goal? Since it has been confirmed in a live stream that nothing related to Victoria is being planned (neither a new game nor an expansion), we are left with HoI4 and perhaps something entirely new for the next two years.

I give it three years, and hope that V3 gets the better of "Rome 2", perhaps the only title who's popularity may interfere with this prediction (but didn't Johan shoot that down as well in a forum post?). I mean: what else could possibly get in the way? It would be too early for a new Cursader Kings, and certainly too early for a new Europa Universalis. There are limits to how many new franchises Paradox can cook up, and asuming that HoI4 sees the light of day within the next two years, we are left with Victoria 3 as the only viable option. Imho.

Six years?! I would be seriously pissed. :p
 
Last edited:

nnnn11112

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Truth be told Victoria 2 is one of the best games of all time.it needs a goodbye patch. Anyone remember victoria revolutions? Great game. No goodbyes,
no expansion packs. not alot of patches. never took off. Victoria is "The missing time from the Europa Universalis games to HOI."

Also anyone know how GOVERNMENTS CHANGE FLAGS AND DO SOMTHING IN VICTORIA 2 BUT IN HOI ITS NOTHING. i have to say. Victoria should be from 1821-1980.
 

FOARP

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"We have no plans for a new expansion for Victoria 2."

- Johan Anderson, on a recent Reddit AMA.

And folks, if there's none planned now, there won't be any, so you can forget about more expansions. Judging by previous releases, we can expect HOI4 next year or the year after, and then Vicky 3 the year after that - I think that's what you should focus on.

Victoria is "The missing time from the Europa Universalis games to HOI."

This, by itself, is not a legitimate premise for a game. I loved V1 and V2, but they promised oh so much more than they delivered, and I think they really need to take a long hard look at what they're trying to acheive in the this game and focus in on it.
 

Orlov Kruskayev

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I agree with the people saying that we are better off waiting for Victoria 3.

What definitely NEEDS to change are the trade/economy system, the merchant marine and navy pops. But really, the economy is a must... it should not be so easy to put your products to sell in the international market before you have proper infrastructure, individual provinces should have some kind of geography based values as to how easy it is to flow products through them for the ports, strategic ports should be key in this and rivers. Which is one minor change that I'd love soooo much to see.
I don't think those things are hard at all to make happen and I hope the devs are looking through these forum posts to see what we want. We ARE the niche afterall. :D
 

Rylock

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I think they really need to take a long hard look at what they're trying to achieve in the this game and focus in on it.

I'd have to agree with this. If there's any weakness from which Victoria suffers, it's from trying to be so many types of games at the same time--economic simulator, historical simulator, wargame, etc. Or perhaps these are the things different parts of the fanbase keep urging them to focus on. Either way, they end up not doing any of them really well.

Take Hearts of Iron. Does it suffer by not having a complicated economic simulation, modeling the production and movement of goods? No, because its focus is on being a wargame. The economy is abstracted. Even the will of the people is abstracted into a single unrest stat. And that's fine.

So what is Victoria's focus? The rise and struggle of new ideologies and revolutions? The advent of industrialization and rise of economic powers? The colonization of Africa and Asia? Political struggles and the march towards World War I? Obviously if you were to lose any one of these things, some fans are going to cry out, but trying to do all of them equally is (in my opinion) problematic, and I'm willing to bet those fans underestimate just how much better one of those areas could be if it were focused on, while the others are left more to abstraction.

It's something I'm sure the developers have given thought to. It's their own game, after all. It just seems to me that, as much as I love Victoria, some of the other PI games are conceptually stronger for being more focused--and thus are more popular and get more attention in the long run.
 

Beagá

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Actually I like Victoria more than the others exactly because of its Jack of All Trades approach. The problem is, it´s too abstracted, often on critical points, like how war goods are poorly handled. A 1914 artillery brigade buing artillery from China´s artisans is ridiculous.

Which is why Victoria 2 should RIP and a new game be made. We need a new dog with few old tricks, not an old dog with few new tricks.
 

Lemont Elwood

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I'd rather they just go ahead and make Victoria III with some really radical additions to the economy.
 

EUnderhill

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Truth be told Victoria 2 is one of the best games of all time.it needs a goodbye patch. Anyone remember victoria revolutions? Great game. No goodbyes,
no expansion packs. not alot of patches. never took off. Victoria is "The missing time from the Europa Universalis games to HOI."

Also anyone know how GOVERNMENTS CHANGE FLAGS AND DO SOMTHING IN VICTORIA 2 BUT IN HOI ITS NOTHING. i have to say. Victoria should be from 1821-1980.
I'd much rather a game-start at the end of the 1848 revolts and a sudden-death end with the outbreak of The Great War.
 

Rylock

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Actually I like Victoria more than the others exactly because of its Jack of All Trades approach. The problem is, it´s too abstracted, often on critical points, like how war goods are poorly handled. A 1914 artillery brigade buing artillery from China´s artisans is ridiculous.

And part of that is, in fact, because Victoria tries to do everything. You may like that it does so, but that means that it's going to do each of those things less well.

Personally, I'm not sure what actual benefit there is in trying to model exactly which goods go where--it seems like a hopelessly complex task doomed to break down at some point. I know Naselus disagrees, and likely so would everyone who enjoys the economic model... I'm just not sure how that makes Victoria a better game about the era. Regardless, I'm sure Paradox would never get a single answer from the fans as to where it should focus its effort. I just think they need to decide.
 

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Actually I like Victoria more than the others exactly because of its Jack of All Trades approach. The problem is, it´s too abstracted, often on critical points, like how war goods are poorly handled. A 1914 artillery brigade buing artillery from China´s artisans is ridiculous.

Which is why Victoria 2 should RIP and a new game be made. We need a new dog with few old tricks, not an old dog with few new tricks.

My sentiments exactly, especially the hilighted section.

I'd much rather a game-start at the end of the 1848 revolts and a sudden-death end with the outbreak of The Great War.

There would be much whining on these forums if start/end dates were changed (people would simplistically assume that they were getting "less game" even if that were obviously not true), but the basic fact is that the start/end dates of Vicky 2 were chosen with apparently no real reasoning behind them except that this gives you 100 years before HOI. Personally, I want a game that's going to model WW1 - but if it isn't going to do this properly, I would rather it didn't try at all so as to give space for a game that could.

And part of that is, in fact, because Victoria tries to do everything. You may like that it does so, but that means that it's going to do each of those things less well.

Personally, I'm not sure what actual benefit there is in trying to model exactly which goods go where--it seems like a hopelessly complex task doomed to break down at some point. I know Naselus disagrees, and likely so would everyone who enjoys the economic model... I'm just not sure how that makes Victoria a better game about the era. Regardless, I'm sure Paradox would never get a single answer from the fans as to where it should focus its effort. I just think they need to decide.

Personally (and again, this is because I want a game that will model WW1 properly) I'd like to see a trade-route system implemented, but you are of course right to say that no single game can cover all the the things that Vicky has attempted to cover.
 
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Icendoan

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And part of that is, in fact, because Victoria tries to do everything. You may like that it does so, but that means that it's going to do each of those things less well.

Personally, I'm not sure what actual benefit there is in trying to model exactly which goods go where--it seems like a hopelessly complex task doomed to break down at some point. I know Naselus disagrees, and likely so would everyone who enjoys the economic model... I'm just not sure how that makes Victoria a better game about the era. Regardless, I'm sure Paradox would never get a single answer from the fans as to where it should focus its effort. I just think they need to decide.

Actually, I've thought a little about how you'd implement things like supply lines and flow of goods, and it's actually a fairly quick graph implementation, which uses shortest path algorithms that we already see for traversals of militaries and so on. It's not difficult or slow to implement, and the shortest paths are recalculated every now and again, and if we get a VicIII on multiple cores, it won't be a big slowdown.

The benefits are adding supply lines and price differentials to trade, which makes protectionism a viable policy, as well as blockades mattering in war, as well as allowing regional competition (buying all your cloth from China shouldn't be a thing: Britain's mills ought to be able to outcompete them in Europe from the game start, simply because of shipping costs), as well as focussing on local supply chains for all your goods.

Why it makes sense for the era: Britain's interests in the era have a very key focus: maintaining trade routes to India. They need this. India bankrolls the empire, almost by itself, and everything would cave in the moment India's trade is threatened. This is why we see an aggressive prevention of Russian access to the Indian ocean, through the British-Afghan war in the 1870s, designed to buffer Russia from India. This is why Suez becomes such a big deal. At the moment, in VicII, it's a convenience. In history, it was a project of inestimable importance, and one which Britain exerted itself to build and maintain its control over well into the 20th century. British trade with India and naval trading supremacy is so important that it creeps into literally every aspect of British foreign policy, which undoubtedly then becomes the world's foreign policy. This isn't modelled at the moment, because there's no process where cash crops, such as cotton, or opium, get on a boat in Calcutta, or Hong Kong, or Osaka and then sail to London, or Liverpool, or Hamburg, or New York, through the Suez or Panama canals. There's literally no reason to maintain a strong naval presence globally, except for a couple of ports in Africa for later colonisation. There's no reason to maintain a large navy, even at the expense of individual unit strength, except for military points. Historically, the expenditure on the navy was a matter of enormous importance to Britain, and to any global colonial power (IE, everyone but the US, Germany and Russia), precisely because it safeguarded this flow of goods around the world.

Germany collapsed in WWI because they couldn't import things. They had the infrastructure to keep materiel flowing to the fronts, and prioritised this, but their civilian drafts prevented the sort of agricultural production that they needed to maintain their civilian populations, and they had a revolution. They were retreating after the battle of Amiens, and were reaching the end of their abilities, but they still weren't actually beaten at the front. Germany collapsed from within. This almost happened to Britain as well. The difference? Britain managed to import enough food, through naval superiority.

We see through exceptionally basic analysis of the period that naval superiority is important precisely because of the flow of goods, which the game doesn't model, and thus it misses out on a colossal aspect of the period in terms of interests of great powers, such as Britain, and international relations. If this isn't an "actual benefit" I'd really quite like to know what is.

On the period: I'm quite happy for 1821-1929. The period is about the colonisation of the world by Europe, the industrial revolution, the rise of democracy and socialism, and the fall of monarchies. It opens in 1821 because we need to close the Napoleonic wars quite cleanly, and it sets the prelude for the period: Russia and Britain are the really strong powers, France has just been beaten, and all the tensions that we see creep up again and again are all still there. If anything, France being a republic is probably quite an important facet, but French republicanism can also be included (not quite hardcoded, but something a player would have to work hard to avoid). Britain is sort-of industrial, and has the colonial presence it should have.

Why 1929: the Great Depression and the rise of Fascism in Germany is something that leads very very smoothly into HoI-type politics, and the prelude to WW2. I don't think we can really go further than 1929 because of how the depression completely reshapes the world. If you went further, you'd have to include until ~1960. War changes so much in the period 1821-1960 that I don't think it's realistic or even plausible that we can have a game that covers both world wars. We also have to start moving to a post-industrial society in the 1960s, which is again something too big for the game to do. We also wrap up in 1929, as opposed to earlier, because we have given space for WW1 and the social and industrial impact that has, as well allowing for the rise of the USSR and autocratic communism, which shapes the period to come (in much the same way that the French Revolution and US' independence sets up the period to come). We also start to get the fall of Britain, which is a nice facet to close on, especially for a game named Victoria.
 
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