One disappointing thing about HOI compared to CK,EU,VIC

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CHRIS3169

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Give it 5 years and when V3 and HOI4 are merged into a single game it'll easily be able to manage The Cold War period.

By then they'll be busy working on a world war 3 game though. We all know of Canadian aggressions in remilitarizing the Great Lakes, the debacle that was the Alaskaschluss, and their demands for the territories of New England settled by ethnic Canadians... Obama promised peace in our time, but I think one more territory is all it'll take to set off ww3 now... Trump is the only hope of the free world now...
 
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Pippo Franchino

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I think another game is needed... HOI series are just about war , war and war, there is few about ecnomics and politics despite the fact into Darkest hour Kaiserreich they were able to make you feel trhought decision Economics and politics.

It would be good to see a Victoria 2 style game with Politics and economics well developed for WW2 and his evolution until the 21th century. I think that would be possible to don't touch the war part taking it from HOI series and go on with an advanced system of Vic2 economic and politics. It would be a masterpiece game that would really make millions of player have a wide choice, but of course that would be more sandbox.
 
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Nordlander

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He compared HOI 4 to anything els gag and put the guy in a trunk were goin to the woods!
 

imperial.

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Victoria's Iron Heart? lol
in all seriousness they could just incorporate it into Hearts of Iron just as it has a broader title. Either way would be good to have! Industrial through to Cold War would be sweet
Just like they have with CK or Eu4 for other eras. Then i'd would just be up to Paradox to bring better Quality, depth, and Marketing into each one of these ages of highlights within each game.. that comes with experience!
 
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Axe99

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While I'd love it if they could pull it off, and we should never say never, it would be incredibly difficult to make a game with mechanics that provided the depth most of us look for while still being at least passably appropriate to the period over that timeframe and being accessible enough that enough people would play and enjoy to the point it was profitable. Vicky 2 alone struggles with having appropriate mechanics just for it's own timeline now.
 
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Bobemor

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While I'd love it if they could pull it off, and we should never say never, it would be incredibly difficult to make a game with mechanics that provided the depth most of us look for while still being at least passably appropriate to the period over that timeframe and being accessible enough that enough people would play and enjoy to the point it was profitable. Vicky 2 alone struggles with having appropriate mechanics just for it's own timeline now.
Convsersly I think it will become increasingly easy for them to provide. Computers are better, Paradox is better. To me Victoria needs warfare and HOI needs economics (both need diplomacy but anyway) it is only natural to me they join.
 
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Mannstien

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I really couldn't get into any of the titles you posted but I think HOI4 has more of a chance with it's features for a Cold War mod than previous iterations at least but it will need a real espionage system after release before that can be a possibility of having success.
 

Surimi

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I think a couple of decades would be too long, personally.. It could potentially diminish the importance of the war itself and just make it feel a bit more like "EU4, early 20th century edition". But I do think 1953 (end of the Korean war) would be an interesting expansion of the timeline and allow for dealing with some of the secondary conflicts which stemmed from the aftermath of the war.

I do worry that there won't be much in the way of denoument after the war is over, but at the same time I think making the war central to the focus of the game is probably a stronger idea than just giving players a massive timeline to play around with. It sounds like you can do that anyway, since you can ignore the end date if you so wish, but I don't think it needs to be a recommended or integrated portion of the game.
 

younghwansim

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Wasn't paradox trying to develop another game called East vs. West and was focused on the Cold War but was scrapped? Maybe they could potentially bring in some content from that game? I'm sure they still have files from that lying around somewhere.

On another note, I remember playing HOI 2 and I remember playing HOI 2: Armageddon and I loved playing the alternate universe, where South America was one country, The Confederacy existed, Asia was a super state, among other things. And I loved playing that alternate history scenario. It would be extremely cool if they could also add that as a DLC or something.
 
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fredgiblet

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I'd love to play a world domination game with Spain actually. In Eu4 my Colonial Spain play was the size of Americas! XD

I don't have 4, but the one game of 3 that I've played to near completion I have Norway/Scandinavia covering all of North America and parts of the South Pacific and South America.

well, i dont necesary see problem in sumating korean/vietnam war, after all what was difference in germans sending legion condor to spain in 36 and un sending troops to korea in 50 ? or to us intervention in vietnam ? after all us didnt have posibility to send here thier whole army.

We couldn't send all our forces because the Chinese and/or Soviets would have had to intervene directly. That sort of limited war isn't well represented by the mechanics I've seen in HoI, it probably wouldn't be TOO hard to script them for planned events like Korea of Vietnam, but making an AI that doesn't spin out of control and start WW3 would be a bit harder IMO. Also there's no real mechanics for insurgencies, at least in 3. They have partisans but those are one and dones while the insurgency in Vietnam was present through large parts of the country for an extended period. Doing Vietnam properly would be a lot more difficult. In addition to the above there's also the simple fact that by that point the game will have diverged significantly. They would also need to model things like the decade long slump that permeated most of Europe after the war as they tried to rebuild and demobilize.

All in all doing a proper Cold War seems like it would require far more work than a DLC and DEFINITELY more work than it warrants for a game whose primary focus is WW2. If Paradox had the budget for a AAA game then maybe they could splurge, but I don't think they do, so I don't think they should.
 
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fredgiblet

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Convsersly I think it will become increasingly easy for them to provide. Computers are better, Paradox is better. To me Victoria needs warfare and HOI needs economics (both need diplomacy but anyway) it is only natural to me they join.

Adding a bunch more systems means a TON more balancing and bug testing. Look at how long it took to get HoI4 ready, it'd probably another 6 months to a year if they added in Vicky style economics. That's 6 months to a year where they are spending money instead of making it. Paradox isn't a AAA developer and HoI isn't a AAA series, they aren't making CoD money with their games and they aren't reaching a CoD audience.

Speaking of that making the game grotesquely complex does not, in fact, increase the size of your audience. It actually reduces it. For everyone that wants to combine all the mechanics of every Paradox game into one there's 5 people that will go "Holy shit that's a learning CLIFF, not a learning curve." and bail.
 
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agentgb

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Adding a bunch more systems means a TON more balancing and bug testing. Look at how long it took to get HoI4 ready, it'd probably another 6 months to a year if they added in Vicky style economics. That's 6 months to a year where they are spending money instead of making it. Paradox isn't a AAA developer and HoI isn't a AAA series, they aren't making CoD money with their games and they aren't reaching a CoD audience.

Speaking of that making the game grotesquely complex does not, in fact, increase the size of your audience. It actually reduces it. For everyone that wants to combine all the mechanics of every Paradox game into one there's 5 people that will go "Holy shit that's a learning CLIFF, not a learning curve." and bail.

hypothetically, to make a cold war game if based on using some of the mechanics from viccy2, hearts of iron, perhaps even that of EU4 isn't hugely complex, tbh EU4 mechanic wise is practically just shy of having everything to make a decent cold war game, it just lacks the essence of HOI focus on combat, the difficulty would be in setting the tone & atmosphere of the cold war period, with artwork, historical nods to events throughout the timeline, and research on historical leaders & there alternatives, but that could be generically managed, since EU4, Viccy 2 and CK2 diverges into an alternative reality the moment you press go, HOI3/4 being the only exception were the AI tries to strictly follow a relevances to it's historical counterpart, which also make's it quite predictable if you have historical knowledge and hindsight. EU4, Viccy2 & CK2 ai will adapt diplomatically & militarily to your actions making it more flexable, somthing that would be easier to implement then having a fixed storyline like that of hoi3/4 that are very difficult to drastically change, although for hoi4 there is an unhistorical mode, which i'd imagine will maintain it's novelty.

Viccy 2 and EU4 economics are extremely straight forward, practically automated with the rest being common sense and logic, the populaion demographic/culture can in both be manipulated or guided but aren't again difficult to learn, the only place i might share your concern where it may become a bit more hands on is the combat aspect of it while managing the other aspects, but with the new hoi4 army control system, it lifts that burden somewhat, also not to mention, in the cold war there won't be has intensive drawn out huge periods of war requring you to check multiple frontlines, but generally a couple of hotspots at most, with the main focus of geopoltical shifts resulting from soft power, diplomancy, coups and special activities division (SAD)

I don't really see it being over complicated, perhaps difficult for those who aren't familiar with the period, and therefore feel overwhelmed by what they should be doing in order to achieve victory? Since most wil probably want to turn the cold war hot, which should not be the main focus of the game, but instead appreciate that conflicts between great powers have changed drastically away from conventional warfare and into more proxy efforts of dicking each other over to achieve there geopolitcal aims, which is still true today.

It would probably be the only paradox game to play completely differently from the rest of the franchise where painting the globe your faction colour would not work due to initiating MAD, and would be closer to viccy 2 sphering puppets mechanics without the conquest & colonialism aspect in it fullest. Sure it will be niche, since most of the general public don't have the same amount of knowledge on the cold war as they do other periods that are romanticized, and could be risky to try such a period for that reason, but i don't think it being over complicated in the sense of the mechanics invovled would make it a steep learning curve.
 
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Vicky and HOI joining makes no sense. Games are not about "throw in every mechanic possible", games are about designing a series of mechanics and systems that interact with each other in a fun and engaging way, and then delivering that design to reality making adaptions as challenges come up while realising that design.

its a fantasy to say "i want a game that simulates the time post napoleon all the way up to a realistic world war 2, with extremely in depth combat, economics, politics, research etc and a campaign that spans a very long time doing all of this"

essentially - making hearts of iron 4 and making victoria 3 alone is FAR easier, budget friendly and more possible than trying to merge them both in a horrible frankenstein's creature
 
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agentgb

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Vicky and HOI joining makes no sense. Games are not about "throw in every mechanic possible", games are about designing a series of mechanics and systems that interact with each other in a fun and engaging way, and then delivering that design to reality making adaptions as challenges come up while realising that design.

its a fantasy to say "i want a game that simulates the time post napoleon all the way up to a realistic world war 2, with extremely in depth combat, economics, politics, research etc and a campaign that spans a very long time doing all of this"

essentially - making hearts of iron 4 and making victoria 3 alone is FAR easier, budget friendly and more possible than trying to merge them both in a horrible frankenstein's creature

i think people mean it hypothetically not literally, since some aspects of viccy 2, hoi4, even eu4 mechanics still remain relevant to a cold war period. Viccy 2 covers a 100 years, EU4 covers 300 years plus, CK covers 300-500 years, cold war only lasted 40-50 years.

and of course, who doesn't want to see viccy3
 
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and of course, who doesn't want to see viccy3

vicky 3 is one of my most anticipated games that hasn't been announced. i love vicky2 and can't wait for it to be overhauled and brought to the standard that EU4 and (seemingly) HOI4 have created for modern paradox titles :D
 
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I don't have 4, but the one game of 3 that I've played to near completion I have Norway/Scandinavia covering all of North America and parts of the South Pacific and South America.



We couldn't send all our forces because the Chinese and/or Soviets would have had to intervene directly. That sort of limited war isn't well represented by the mechanics I've seen in HoI, it probably wouldn't be TOO hard to script them for planned events like Korea of Vietnam, but making an AI that doesn't spin out of control and start WW3 would be a bit harder IMO. Also there's no real mechanics for insurgencies, at least in 3. They have partisans but those are one and dones while the insurgency in Vietnam was present through large parts of the country for an extended period. Doing Vietnam properly would be a lot more difficult. In addition to the above there's also the simple fact that by that point the game will have diverged significantly. They would also need to model things like the decade long slump that permeated most of Europe after the war as they tried to rebuild and demobilize.

All in all doing a proper Cold War seems like it would require far more work than a DLC and DEFINITELY more work than it warrants for a game whose primary focus is WW2. If Paradox had the budget for a AAA game then maybe they could splurge, but I don't think they do, so I don't think they should.


Also, could you imagine fighting a war for twice as long as ww2 in a state that has 5 or 6 provinces, and in places like the ho chi min trail are only one thin province across? There's a fine line between having fun and doing chores in video games. It'd work better with the eu4 style combat of putting all your forces into the biggest army possible, battle, disconnect to seige, repeat. HOI needs wide areas to maneuver entire armys(I've been orgasming at just drawing the battle plan lines in hoi4).

For it to work properly, fighting would have to spill over into Cambodia and Laos(we did invade Laos right?) Much sooner than IRL.
 
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Bobemor

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Adding a bunch more systems means a TON more balancing and bug testing. Look at how long it took to get HoI4 ready, it'd probably another 6 months to a year if they added in Vicky style economics. That's 6 months to a year where they are spending money instead of making it. Paradox isn't a AAA developer and HoI isn't a AAA series, they aren't making CoD money with their games and they aren't reaching a CoD audience.

Speaking of that making the game grotesquely complex does not, in fact, increase the size of your audience. It actually reduces it. For everyone that wants to combine all the mechanics of every Paradox game into one there's 5 people that will go "Holy shit that's a learning CLIFF, not a learning curve." and bail.

I'm not saying they should add a clumsy V2 style economics patch to HOI4. I'm saying that in 5 years time after V3 has been released for a few years (I think seeing V3 in the next 2 years isn't a crazy idea) it makes sense to merge the two games. I don't think this would make the game anymore difficulty to learn since as @agentgb points out HOI4 points out there's a lot of new automation features in HOI4 it would be odd to think they'd turn back on this trend.
Although I understand fully why some would want specific games for specific periods I think with the nature of the Cold War better suiting to a Victoria type game and WW1 better suiting to a HOI type game it would not be stupid to merge the relevant aspects. Especially since both so affect the other.
 
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