So I am back again to try and advocate stronger espionage ideas.
However, after watching the pdox official response to Arumba's excellent proposals, I understand why my previous ideas were not at all likely to be adopted or supported: they made the game considerably more complex.
Thus, I instead propose a different set of ideas to replace/enhance the current espionage ones.
Let me first point out the problems with espionage
Espionage ideas do not seem to have a general purpose and they are generally quite weak.
If you look at most idea groups, you see a definite purpose emerge. All the military ideas save Arist/Plut are about winning wars, fair and simple. Diplomacy and Influence let you play the game of thrones (if you are a monarchy) and generally help relations with other countries (preventing coalitions) and also let you have more allies/vassals/PU's/marches. Thus, they are about limiting the main in-game barriers to expansion. Expansion and Exploration are about colonial expansion. Trade is about trade. Maritime is about sea trade and naval warfare. Religious and Humanism are both about lowering revolt risk (albeit in different ways).
There are six idea groups besides espionage with no definite a single purpose, but all save Economic (which could use a moderate buff) make up for it by being quite potent with their generally applicable bonuses.
But Espionage is different. It appears to be all about weakening your enemies, but it does not do a particularly good job at doing it. If you need to beat down France or Russia, you are generally better served by a military idea group. Lets break down every individual idea.
Privateers: The concept is interesting, but it is not very strong and forgets that a player's worst enemy is often a big land power, like France, Ottomans, Austria, or Russia, that has little reliance on trade income from sea nodes.
Vetting: This is mostly useless since almost nobody takes espionage and there is little benefit from AE to be gained by catching non-human players in the act of
fabricating a claim.
Rumourmongering: Since enemies and rivals already hate the target and the same is usually true of neighbors of any clout, this is also somewhat redundant.
Efficient Spies: Moderately useful.
Shady Recruitment: Already rendered redundant by +25% spy offence from previous idea that makes it far less likely for you to be caught.
Destabilizing Efforts: This is rendered redundant by Support Rebels, which also happens to give you PP.
Espionage: Simply not all that useful, even in war. Strong enemy armies are strong enemy armies and you will know where they are soon enough when they attack.
Finisher: Again, redundant with Sow Discontent from Destabilizing Efforts.
Thus, I think it is fair to say that this idea group has no real purpose and furthermore does not benefit the player all that much.
The following proposal is based on dealing with two types of very common situations that emerge for the player:
Firstly, the player may often be faced with a land enemy that is very powerful and needs to be taken down a few notches. Second, you may have to deal with a major competitor in trade and colonization.
This would provide espionage ideas with a unified purpose: taking down strong opponents that you are engaged in serious struggle with.
Proposed New Espionage Ideas for 1.9 or a later patch:
1. Trusted Confidants:
Benefit: +25% spy offense, +1 diplomat
Explanation: This is a general boost that is useful to the player in conducting espionage actions. While this may seem a strong starter, remember that several starters are stronger. Levee en Masse, Deus Vult, Additional Colonists, Colonial Ventures, and Tolerance, namely.
2. Secret Police:
Benefit: +25% spy defense, -1 global revolt risk, -20% to harsh treatment cost
Explanation: This protects against foreign espionage and gives a nice side benefit.
3. Rebel Allies:
Benefit: +50% rebel support efficiency, +50% PP from Support Rebels
Explanation: This gives you a straight up PP boost and lets you tack on the unrest in a culturally or religiously divided or war exhausted foe. It historically represents the efforts of various states to ally with specific rebels against a common foe. Examples include the French support for the Jacobites or the English support for the Dutch rebellion against Spain. Also removes redundancy of a second rebel-enhancing action.
4. Privateering:
Benefit: +40% Embargo Efficiency, +50% Privateer Efficiency
Explanation: Now the idea is strong enough.
5. Trade Secret Theft:
Benefit: +1% to Neighbor Bonus to Tech Cost Reduction, grants use of Economic Espionage Action.
Economic Espionage action grants you a 25% embargo efficiency boost vs the faction. It requires a diplomat who may be caught and capture will hinder relations with target.
Explanation: The tech idea comes from a long and sordid history or technology theft. The idea here is that you can piggyback off of others' tech advances and weaken trade competition with espionage just like real countries did.
This is a relevant and sourced wikipedia passage detailing this in the EU time period:
"Economic and industrial espionage has a long history. The work of Father Francois Xavier d'Entrecolles in Jingdezhen, China to reveal to Europe the manufacturing methods of Chinese porcelain in 1712 is sometimes considered an early case of industrial espionage.[27]
Historical accounts have been written of industrial espionage between Britain and France.[28] Attributed to Britain's emergence as an "industrial creditor," the second decade of the 18th century saw the emergence of a large-scale state-sponsored effort to surreptitiously take British industrial technology to France.[28] Witnesses confirmed both the inveigling of tradespersons abroad and the placing of apprentices in England.[29] Protests by those such as iron workers in Sheffield and steel workers in Newcastle,[clarification needed] about skilled industrial workers being enticed abroad, led to the first English legislation aimed at preventing this method of economic and industrial espionage.[30][29]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Origins_of_industrial_espionage
6. Rumourmongering:
Benefit: May Sabotage Reputation
This is a reworking of the Sabotage Reputation mechanic.
This reduces relations with non-colonial subject nations and increases the independence desire of colonies, both by a set amount determined by monetary funding given. This action generates PP.
7. Treachery:
Benefit: May Infiltrate Administration
Infiltrate Administration is reworked. In addition to letting you see all of that country's positions, forces on your side of a war in which that country is involved get a siege bonus vs that country's forts (like in Offensive ideas). Furthermore, that country's ports are easier to blockade while you are fighting them. These effects set in only after six months of the operation unhindered. Furthermore, the enemy gets a large bonus to detecting your spy (think +30% or +45% or a similar value).
Finisher:
+1 Diplomat
Any suggestions are welcome. I conclude this proposed rework of espionage.
However, after watching the pdox official response to Arumba's excellent proposals, I understand why my previous ideas were not at all likely to be adopted or supported: they made the game considerably more complex.
Thus, I instead propose a different set of ideas to replace/enhance the current espionage ones.
Let me first point out the problems with espionage
Espionage ideas do not seem to have a general purpose and they are generally quite weak.
If you look at most idea groups, you see a definite purpose emerge. All the military ideas save Arist/Plut are about winning wars, fair and simple. Diplomacy and Influence let you play the game of thrones (if you are a monarchy) and generally help relations with other countries (preventing coalitions) and also let you have more allies/vassals/PU's/marches. Thus, they are about limiting the main in-game barriers to expansion. Expansion and Exploration are about colonial expansion. Trade is about trade. Maritime is about sea trade and naval warfare. Religious and Humanism are both about lowering revolt risk (albeit in different ways).
There are six idea groups besides espionage with no definite a single purpose, but all save Economic (which could use a moderate buff) make up for it by being quite potent with their generally applicable bonuses.
But Espionage is different. It appears to be all about weakening your enemies, but it does not do a particularly good job at doing it. If you need to beat down France or Russia, you are generally better served by a military idea group. Lets break down every individual idea.
Privateers: The concept is interesting, but it is not very strong and forgets that a player's worst enemy is often a big land power, like France, Ottomans, Austria, or Russia, that has little reliance on trade income from sea nodes.
Vetting: This is mostly useless since almost nobody takes espionage and there is little benefit from AE to be gained by catching non-human players in the act of
fabricating a claim.
Rumourmongering: Since enemies and rivals already hate the target and the same is usually true of neighbors of any clout, this is also somewhat redundant.
Efficient Spies: Moderately useful.
Shady Recruitment: Already rendered redundant by +25% spy offence from previous idea that makes it far less likely for you to be caught.
Destabilizing Efforts: This is rendered redundant by Support Rebels, which also happens to give you PP.
Espionage: Simply not all that useful, even in war. Strong enemy armies are strong enemy armies and you will know where they are soon enough when they attack.
Finisher: Again, redundant with Sow Discontent from Destabilizing Efforts.
Thus, I think it is fair to say that this idea group has no real purpose and furthermore does not benefit the player all that much.
The following proposal is based on dealing with two types of very common situations that emerge for the player:
Firstly, the player may often be faced with a land enemy that is very powerful and needs to be taken down a few notches. Second, you may have to deal with a major competitor in trade and colonization.
This would provide espionage ideas with a unified purpose: taking down strong opponents that you are engaged in serious struggle with.
Proposed New Espionage Ideas for 1.9 or a later patch:
1. Trusted Confidants:
Benefit: +25% spy offense, +1 diplomat
Explanation: This is a general boost that is useful to the player in conducting espionage actions. While this may seem a strong starter, remember that several starters are stronger. Levee en Masse, Deus Vult, Additional Colonists, Colonial Ventures, and Tolerance, namely.
2. Secret Police:
Benefit: +25% spy defense, -1 global revolt risk, -20% to harsh treatment cost
Explanation: This protects against foreign espionage and gives a nice side benefit.
3. Rebel Allies:
Benefit: +50% rebel support efficiency, +50% PP from Support Rebels
Explanation: This gives you a straight up PP boost and lets you tack on the unrest in a culturally or religiously divided or war exhausted foe. It historically represents the efforts of various states to ally with specific rebels against a common foe. Examples include the French support for the Jacobites or the English support for the Dutch rebellion against Spain. Also removes redundancy of a second rebel-enhancing action.
4. Privateering:
Benefit: +40% Embargo Efficiency, +50% Privateer Efficiency
Explanation: Now the idea is strong enough.
5. Trade Secret Theft:
Benefit: +1% to Neighbor Bonus to Tech Cost Reduction, grants use of Economic Espionage Action.
Economic Espionage action grants you a 25% embargo efficiency boost vs the faction. It requires a diplomat who may be caught and capture will hinder relations with target.
Explanation: The tech idea comes from a long and sordid history or technology theft. The idea here is that you can piggyback off of others' tech advances and weaken trade competition with espionage just like real countries did.
This is a relevant and sourced wikipedia passage detailing this in the EU time period:
"Economic and industrial espionage has a long history. The work of Father Francois Xavier d'Entrecolles in Jingdezhen, China to reveal to Europe the manufacturing methods of Chinese porcelain in 1712 is sometimes considered an early case of industrial espionage.[27]
Historical accounts have been written of industrial espionage between Britain and France.[28] Attributed to Britain's emergence as an "industrial creditor," the second decade of the 18th century saw the emergence of a large-scale state-sponsored effort to surreptitiously take British industrial technology to France.[28] Witnesses confirmed both the inveigling of tradespersons abroad and the placing of apprentices in England.[29] Protests by those such as iron workers in Sheffield and steel workers in Newcastle,[clarification needed] about skilled industrial workers being enticed abroad, led to the first English legislation aimed at preventing this method of economic and industrial espionage.[30][29]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Origins_of_industrial_espionage
6. Rumourmongering:
Benefit: May Sabotage Reputation
This is a reworking of the Sabotage Reputation mechanic.
This reduces relations with non-colonial subject nations and increases the independence desire of colonies, both by a set amount determined by monetary funding given. This action generates PP.
7. Treachery:
Benefit: May Infiltrate Administration
Infiltrate Administration is reworked. In addition to letting you see all of that country's positions, forces on your side of a war in which that country is involved get a siege bonus vs that country's forts (like in Offensive ideas). Furthermore, that country's ports are easier to blockade while you are fighting them. These effects set in only after six months of the operation unhindered. Furthermore, the enemy gets a large bonus to detecting your spy (think +30% or +45% or a similar value).
Finisher:
+1 Diplomat
Any suggestions are welcome. I conclude this proposed rework of espionage.
