On The Question Of Communist Variation...

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mdallion446

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Will there be an option, in future DLC perhaps, to specifically choose what type of Communist government you want to turn into? Not for countries like, for example, The Soviet Union, whose political affiliation is pretty much set, but for countries that you choose to become Communist through Political Advisors or National Focuses (Foci?). For example, I play as the United States, I choose Eric Browder as my Political Advisor, and either choose to have a Civil War, or a Referendum to become Communist. During the event where the Communists take over, I would get the choices of becoming Stalinist, Marxist-Leninist, or Trotskyist, each with their own sets of benefits and detriments. There could even be a choice to give Trotsky asylum in the new Communist States of America, or even elect him General Secretary, replacing Browder.
 

Tarnoyan Warrior

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Since Stalin believed in communism in one country, I feel like it make sense that if your country was Stalinist, you would be pressured to join the ussr, and if you didn't you would be politically isolated and everyone around you would hate you. That could also add a proxy war idea with the Trotskyist nations funding and providing troops and volunteers to the opposition of Stalinist forces in a civil war to make sure they don't have a base to expand Stalinist influence that would definitely be cool
 

Tarnoyan Warrior

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Wwww... what????

As for the original question - looks really redundant in a game when outright military dictatorships and French anarchy are rolled into the same generic democracy carpet.
Better political variety would be nice in general. And as far as the thing you quoted, at least you would be invited to the Comintern.
 
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mdallion446

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Wwww... what????

As for the original question - looks really redundant in a game when outright military dictatorships and French anarchy are rolled into the same generic democracy carpet.
That's my point unfortunately.There's no variety in the ideologies at the moment. What i envisioned was something along the lines of an Ideological Struggle between the Stalinist USSR and a Marxist-Leninist Communist States of America, for example. Even though both countries are Communist, they have opposing ideologies within Communism, setting the stage for a future Cold War between the two, where the only difference would be that instead of a Democratic USA vs. a Communist USSR, you would have a Marxist-Leninist CSA vs. a Stalinist USSR. Same Cold War, but ahistorically different ideologies.
 
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cat013

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Stalinism was tailored as a practical response to very particular political challenges of 1920s. In a world where USA turns red there simply wouldn't be a single stalinist, not even Stalin himself. But OK, it is possible to find two branches of communism that would feasibly fight one another (China vs Vietnam for one).

A step in the right direction would be to turn parties/governments into proper game entities, separated from any territories they may or may not control. Say, you could have democratic (sort of) Polish government in London, communist government in Moscow and the entire Polish territory occupied by Germany (as it happened historically). Or alternatively you can have third (fascist) Polish government controlling puppet Nazi Poland. One can make agreements with these multiple governments, support their claims, help them with a coup, etc. And then you realize that you can have any number of parties for any denomination.
 

Liquid Ghost

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Yeeeah, that sort of nuance was scrapped from the transition from HoI3 to HoI4, OP. And even then, you only got different degrees of communism, capitalism and fascism and they weren't really that much of a difference from one to the other save for the shade of color they used.
 

Khevenhuller

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That's my point unfortunately.There's no variety in the ideologies at the moment. What i envisioned was something along the lines of an Ideological Struggle between the Stalinist USSR and a Marxist-Leninist Communist States of America, for example. Even though both countries are Communist, they have opposing ideologies within Communism, setting the stage for a future Cold War between the two, where the only difference would be that instead of a Democratic USA vs. a Communist USSR, you would have a Marxist-Leninist CSA vs. a Stalinist USSR. Same Cold War, but ahistorically different ideologies.

Clinging with our fingernails to common sense for a moment, there is a point here, and you look at the Spanish Civil War to find it. There quite a few competing groups from the Democratic and the non-democratic left competed for influence within the framework of the Republic. It took some time for the Stalinists to gain ascendancy, mainly as they controlled the arms supplies. You have a coup within the Republic. The eventual collapse of the Republic is led by officers who are exasperated and hostile to the Communists control of the war effort.

But if the Republic won, and early, what could have emerged? It is very unlikely it would have been Stalinist. But it would certainly have been more left-leaning than a liberal democracy, even one under an SPD/Labour government. But there is no nuance on the left in HOI4. Not much on the right come to that either!

K
 

aono

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hkrommel

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Same Cold War, but ahistorically different ideologies.

It's very unlikely a cold war would happen the same way, particularly since the US economy would be greatly weakened in that scenario. I also don't see the Marshall Plan happening. Why would the historical NATO countries be on board with commie US either? The war itself, and thus the aftermath, would look very different and would likely entail a victorious Germany (by peace settlement, not surrender), or a USSR-owned Europe sans Britain and the neutral countries with the US on the sidelines because of the chaos and economic atrophy such a revolution would entail. It would likely make the Spanish Civil War look like a relatively mild affair.

Not to mention that Marxism-Leninism was tailored specifically to Russia due to its agrarian economy. The US with its highly industrialized economy would be a poor substitute.
 
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ringhloth

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I don't really think political nuance is really necessary - when you start splitting up countries, they can often get to a point where you have an ideology for every country. I mean, if you want to split up Germany and Italy, for instance, you really need to split up Italy, Germany, and Japan into three separate factions, because in reality, Italy had closer ideological roots with Germany than it did Japan. Split up the democrats and republicans in the US, and you basically need to split up democracies into 5 or 6 different factions, and that can be inaccurate in a lot of countries because they were a lot more homogeneous than that.
 

Khevenhuller

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According to HOI4 the UK is a one-party state far more than the USSR or Nazi Germany. Apparently Stanley Baldwin took time off from talking to his pigs to stage a right wing coup in the mid-thirties.

K