You do know that the price of a car is set where it covers the cost of the parts right?
On the ethics and practicalities of DLC
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Really? How does that work? That's unreal!
Same as the games we're talking about, but in this situation I have to pay more to get what is essentially part of the product. Certain parts were taken out and then offered back at an extra charge.
So think about it, cars that have more stuff essential or not, cost more. Same thing with games.
Certain parts are taken out, making the cost of the car to you, the consumer, go down. The parts taken out are difficult to fit and will greatly increase the time until the car is made, there for also increasing the cost if they are left in. The parts taken out are added in later, but are easier to fit and hence cost you less in the long run while also not increasing cost for the manufacturer of the car.
or, you know, the cost is primarily based upon what people think other people will buy it for and has very little to do with the sum of the 'value' of all its parts
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this is a pretty weird analogy to begin with
And this is the debate.
I agree that certain additions do warrant a charge, expansions. Something that adds greatly to the product that enhances the experience by time and sheer enjoyment. However when something adds just some simple graphics, or events, colors for a nation, a flag or two, or a couple of unit sprites, and charge for it. I do not agree with it. Plus when something like this is offered at release, it is obvious such things could have been, and were part of the game to begin with. Now it's advertised as an "added bonus" for a price. When it's obvious those things were left out in the hopes of getting more people to spend more money on something that is already part of the game. Yet again, taken out to just to make more money.
It is not a game breaker, but for many it is part of the atmosphere, the experience. And to some the principal of the fact.
Except that doesn't apply at all. Nice to think it is does and convince yourself, but that's not reality.
So basically you are saying that for years now, since DLC came out, people have just been too stupid to know what they are buying, & are continually getting scammed? Umm ok sure.
Also, how do you know they make "plenty" of money? Whats plenty to you & plenty to me might be two totally different things.
Here is my take on Paradox's approach to DLCs and why I don't mind it.
I stopped buying paradox game for two main reasons. Disclaimer these reasons are relative to me only, while these things are factually true my dislike of them is subjective. EU3 was the last game I bought and I bought it twice (Physical Collectors and then a physical copy of EUIII complete.) Yet While I bought Victoria, HOI, EU, EUII, HOII. I stopped buying other games.
1) Digital downloads only.
2) EU3 approach to support. (Main reason)
In EU3 there was a rather major problem with China getting past the urals as they gobbled up the steppe nomads. We got three patches that all failed to solve the problem but attempts were made, they just weren't effective. Then Nappy's Ambition came out and all support for EUIII stopped. Don't get me wrong you could get support for EUIII+Nappy's Ambition but you were shit out of luck for getting any bugs fixed for EUIII alone. So if you wanted flaws fixed you had to further invest in the game. This to me felt like paradox was holding me hostage for fixing their game.
Along comes the DLC approach we saw with CK2. Lots of DLCs but now I truly DONT have to buy any and I can still get my game improved, tweaked and bugs fixed. This DLC approach means that CK2 is still patched not just CK2+all the expansions getting patches. I have no problem with the DLC system because I stated I still get support for just the base game and I can cherry pick those DLCs that have content I find interesting. The Aztec invasion DLC has little interest to me but I can see why other players would love it. Those players that want it can get it and those players who don't want it suffer no ill effects for opting out.
This new approach has made me a customer again. Enough that I can ignore the digital download version as my only option. Companies don't always get it right with their business models but when they make changes for the better I feel its not out of line for me the customer to change my stance on the company. When I see the other approaches to the whole expansion/DLC issue I have to say paradox has improved.
Also one of the things I like was that the difference between the deluxe/standard edition was only $5 and they did not make it exclusive. I am of the opinion that in the DLC era of games you shouldn't make things exclusive but if you advertise that an item is exclusive to me you damn well better make sure it stays exclusive because it paid for this exclusivity. This allows people the (likely) ability to get the DLCs at a late date. This is a great option for the player and the company. I did not find the paradox day one DLC egregious not compared to mass effect's 3 day one DLC which was a main bloody character/companion to the story so perspective is needed I think.
I stopped buying paradox game for two main reasons. Disclaimer these reasons are relative to me only, while these things are factually true my dislike of them is subjective. EU3 was the last game I bought and I bought it twice (Physical Collectors and then a physical copy of EUIII complete.) Yet While I bought Victoria, HOI, EU, EUII, HOII. I stopped buying other games.
1) Digital downloads only.
2) EU3 approach to support. (Main reason)
In EU3 there was a rather major problem with China getting past the urals as they gobbled up the steppe nomads. We got three patches that all failed to solve the problem but attempts were made, they just weren't effective. Then Nappy's Ambition came out and all support for EUIII stopped. Don't get me wrong you could get support for EUIII+Nappy's Ambition but you were shit out of luck for getting any bugs fixed for EUIII alone. So if you wanted flaws fixed you had to further invest in the game. This to me felt like paradox was holding me hostage for fixing their game.
Along comes the DLC approach we saw with CK2. Lots of DLCs but now I truly DONT have to buy any and I can still get my game improved, tweaked and bugs fixed. This DLC approach means that CK2 is still patched not just CK2+all the expansions getting patches. I have no problem with the DLC system because I stated I still get support for just the base game and I can cherry pick those DLCs that have content I find interesting. The Aztec invasion DLC has little interest to me but I can see why other players would love it. Those players that want it can get it and those players who don't want it suffer no ill effects for opting out.
This new approach has made me a customer again. Enough that I can ignore the digital download version as my only option. Companies don't always get it right with their business models but when they make changes for the better I feel its not out of line for me the customer to change my stance on the company. When I see the other approaches to the whole expansion/DLC issue I have to say paradox has improved.
Also one of the things I like was that the difference between the deluxe/standard edition was only $5 and they did not make it exclusive. I am of the opinion that in the DLC era of games you shouldn't make things exclusive but if you advertise that an item is exclusive to me you damn well better make sure it stays exclusive because it paid for this exclusivity. This allows people the (likely) ability to get the DLCs at a late date. This is a great option for the player and the company. I did not find the paradox day one DLC egregious not compared to mass effect's 3 day one DLC which was a main bloody character/companion to the story so perspective is needed I think.
I have decided not to complain about DLC for a game that costs 40€ on release. Paradox DLC are generally worth the money anyway and often on sale.
Considering that there are two threads on this topic going on at the moment could a moderator merge them please?
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-convinced-me-to-not-buy-the-game-quot/page18
-Other thread on this topic.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-convinced-me-to-not-buy-the-game-quot/page18
-Other thread on this topic.
Wouldn't be the first time, would it? People still fall for the 411 scams on a daily basis. I mean just look at people grocery shopping.
True, but I doubt they are struggling to cover their bills.
A DLC Thread - Abridged Verison
"Expansions are way better than DLC."
"If you don't like it don't buy it."
"EA is evil."
"I live in (insert economically poor country) and can't afford DLC."
"Companies exist to make money"
"Leave Paradox alone, they're good guys."
"Casual gamers are ruining gaming."
"DRM doesn't stop piracy."
"(insert some argument about communism)"
"(insert random flaming)"
"(insert four pages of two posters arguing about one point)
Locked
The End
"Expansions are way better than DLC."
"If you don't like it don't buy it."
"EA is evil."
"I live in (insert economically poor country) and can't afford DLC."
"Companies exist to make money"
"Leave Paradox alone, they're good guys."
"Casual gamers are ruining gaming."
"DRM doesn't stop piracy."
"(insert some argument about communism)"
"(insert random flaming)"
"(insert four pages of two posters arguing about one point)
Locked
The End
There is literally no difference between something like old gods and something like napoleon's ambition. and you know what? I didn't buy hymn to the old gods or the sprite pack because I found them useless.
Tell me the difference between an "expansion" that is only available digitally and DLC like the old gods without resorting to semantics.
The other thread deals with many issues and ebs and flows over the issues. I think DLCs getting their own thread isn't unwarranted.
But Car's do do the same thing (hell most things do)
You have Options and Accessories for the Car.
What are designed and developed alongside the Car.
Pointless for the actual use of the Car
The Car does not need leather seats, a GPS, Fancy sunroof whatever but if you want it you will pay for it.
I quite like the fact that Paradox and other developers are able to bring us inceased gameplay through DLCs rather than simply trusting to the mod community to do it for us. This way we get the best of both worlds.
It has been echoed over and over, these are not cut out parts. They are simply extras that were worked on because the rest of the work was finished. This was not content that was already in and just removed and marked for sale. If it weren't going to be sold as DLC, it wouldn't exist in the first place.
EDIT: Edwardianed is on to something here.