On DLCs / your feedback

[Socratatus]

Hey all, thanks for your feedback.

We're really happy we can have this kind of quick feedback. I guess the sprite packs were not exactly what you were looking for at this stage and I think we're learning from this.

When it comes to the sprite packs it is too late to do anything about them specifically since parts of our pre-order (with retail in the US for example) is using these in their campaign. So bear with us this time please.

From the poll result, I understand that most people are interested in expansions with more content and rather pay $9.99 - $19.99 for a fully fledged expansion than $1.50 for smaller packs of content.

I might have misunderstood it, but some people might also be interested in specific small additions to the game (music / battle scenarios) as long as it doesn't take our focus away from "important stuff" (like saving the world, something me and Johan are secretly doing in our spare time).

So what we'll do is ask you when we come up with ideas. For example, Andreas (who is making the music for HoI3 and previously for EU3 etc) has discussed doing a "Music Addition" for HoI3, and we'll ask you in beforehand if you think this is a good idea. We will present it as our "sales pitch" and then you'll be free to give us feedback.

Sounds ok?

Fred

I am most impressed by your post. Not the kind of thing i`m used to seeing (especially after that game that shall not be named- etw\CA).

I juist want to say that I am not a fan of DLCs at all. In fact, I never download DLCS or games off the net. I am a store-purchaser.

I also like good expansion packs that include increased historical gameplay as well as sprites/graphics, music, sounds which are an added bonus. I am happy to pay £20 for a good expansion pack. I am not too bothered about scenarios as long as there`s a good major campaign world to get involved in.

However, I do buy decent DLCs if they are sold instores and are worth the purchase. I would not pay £20 for just graphic, music or sprites. Possibly £10-£15 would be acceptable.

Keep up the good work.

 

[Spoony]

You realize this isn't entirely fair, correct? The cost of making a game since 'before DLC' and 'after DLC' has gone up QUITE a lot. Asking them to make these sprites for 'free' is essentially equivalent to asking Paradox to stuff a 5 note bill in every HOI3 box. A company as small as this should not be expected to do such things.

First of all Paradox isnt that small any more, actually it has grown quite a bit Their publishing side is actually one of the bigger boys, and don't forget GG.

Second and more importantly I grant PI all the money they can get. They do fantastic work and I buy their games ony from GG since I know it goes straight into their pockets.

What I imply is, that DLC in the sense of tiny extras and charges of up to 3 Euro are a Marketing Cheat, like Betheda does with Oblivion. By the way I love Betheda too Its my mistake that I mentioned the past, which is not true at all, since nowadays a lot of great game devellopers give small or tiny extras in their patches and updates still free of charge, to show their customer that they care. Hell, look at The Witcher. Those Polish devellopers gave a ton of free stuff in their updates, from which they could probably have made 5 DLC for 3 Euro each.

I don't want the extra 5 note bill in my game box as you say Takeda. I GLADLY pay extra and if it's worth I would even pay as much as the game costs in the first place, if I don't feel like cheated by another marketing ploy, which in the last two years has been growing like a bad tumor.
If it continious like this, it won't take long and all you get is a bare bone game and you will have to pay an extra Euro or Dollar for each little goody you want to have in the game to make it enjoyable or even playable. This might seem a bit exaggerated, but if you look at the trend of DLCs I can clearly see where it is going.

 

[supernova]

The Arab - Israeli war(s) that took place after wwII would be a great scenario. Of course this would mean extending the timeline to about mid 50's but that would also allow Korean war.

Yeah that would be nice, especially now they have smaller provinces, so small-scale wars maybe could be modeled.

 

[unmerged(64229)]

What about slowly, but surely, making the game last longer with more events, like Korea, etc?
I know most people will jsut use a notimelimit patch, but perhaps this would work?

 

[Spoony]

What about slowly, but surely, making the game last longer with more events, like Korea, etc?
I know most people will jsut use a notimelimit patch, but perhaps this would work?

definately a good idea. Either introduce an extended Gand campaign that covers the cold war as before in HOI2, or larger Battle Scenarios that intoduce conflicts like Korea/Vietnam, maybe even a combined "South East Asia Capitalism vs. Communism" Scenario covering the 50s and 60s

 

[DarthJF]

The Arab - Israeli war(s) that took place after wwII would be a great scenario. Of course this would mean extending the timeline to about mid 50's but that would also allow Korean war.

If they make it into battle scenario ala HOI2 they could just make it into single scenario with dates from 1948 - 50's something, and without having to expand end date of the whole game.

I'm not going to buy any sprite or music packs, but battle scenarios might be something I could think over. Maybe not any individual scenarios, but scenario package with several different settings I could imagine myself willing to pay few euros. Cold War conflicts, some fantasy scenarios and maybe few concentrating solely on individual WW2 fronts would make great package or two.

 

[Spoony]

If they make it into battle scenario ala HOI2 they could just make it into single scenario with dates from 1948 - 50's something, and without having to expand end date of the whole game.

I'm not going to buy any sprite or music packs, but battle scenarios might be something I could think over. Maybe not any individual scenarios, but scenario package with several different settings I could imagine myself willing to pay few euros. Cold War conflicts, some fantasy scenarios and maybe few concentrating solely on individual WW2 fronts would make great package or two.

Actually the fantasy scenario is a good one Darth. I liked very much the Armageddon expansion in HOI2, where the world was carved into larger blocks, still somewhat explainable, as in the Turteldove novels. Though it had a few flaws in Hoi2 and wasn't very balanced. I think this would definately be a good add-on!

 

[groan]

I wanted to thank Paradox... I know you guys get this a lot but in my opinion it can't be overstated.

Threads like this let me know that even though Paradox might be a growing company it isn't about to lose what made it great for me in the first place, that incredible customer support any frequenter (or lurker) on this forum knows about.

As far as DLC vs expansions go I don't mind shelling out the occasional few bucks for some interesting DLC, but much prefer those awesome expansion packs you guys have been known to put out (IN and DV to name a couple).

I can't wait to play what looks to be an incredible game. Thank you again.

 

[MadlockUK]

I'd like to see economic and technological expansions. For those who'd like a more in depth industrial task at hand and more in-depth technology. Also, I'd like to a logistical extension. I think there should be option of keeping them automated if your not in the mood but I think these are the only things lacking in the game so far from what I've read. I know I'd be willing to throw down another $30USD for a comprehensive expansion like that!

 

[shnuskis]

First of all Paradox isnt that small any more, actually it has grown quite a bit Their publishing side is actually one of the bigger boys, and don't forget GG.

(

They have said they don't own GG anymore.

I actually woundn't mind buying dlc from a company like paradox that listens to its audience, unlike EA. I would buy sprite packs as well, concidering they said there won't be many modders making them for various reasons.

 

[Spoony]

They have said they don't own GG anymore.

I actually woundn't mind buying dlc from a company like paradox that listens to its audience, unlike EA. I would buy sprite packs as well, concidering they said there won't be many modders making them for various reasons.

If that's true, someone should update the Wiki for Paradox

 

[33Vortex]

Hey all, thanks for your feedback.

We're really happy we can have this kind of quick feedback. I guess we're learning from this.

When it comes to the sprite packs it is too late to do anything about the US. So bear with us this time please.

From the poll result, I understand that most people are interested in more and rather pay $9.99 - $19.99 for smaller packs of content.

I have misunderstood it, but some people might like saving the world, something me and Johan are doing in our spare time.

So what we'll do is ask you when we come up with ideas. For example, Andreas has discussed doing a "sales pitch" and then you'll be free to give us feedback.

Sounds ok?

Fred

There, fixed the post for you. :rofl:

Surely I'm up for saving the world, sounds awesome and I know exactly what needs to be done!

 

[33Vortex]

Btw I love you guys at Paradox you are the best overall software entertainment company I know of. So add a lot of humor to that post if you will, because that's how it was intended. No distortion of truth here... I'm a seeker of truth...


"The love of truth lies at the root of much humor."
- Robertson Davies

 

[Nimic]

At least you're listening to the customers (and very quickly as well!). That's a far cry from the vast majority of game developers. My stance on this is, as I've said in a couple of threads already, that I'm fundamentally against small DLC packages, however small and cheap they are. They often give the impression that they could just as well have been part of the game from the beginning.

I much more prefer proper expansions, of the recent Paradox kind. All the expansions I've got, NA and then IN, and VV, have significantly improved the base game. And the base game was already pretty good from the start (though in the case of Rome the gameplay was too sparse, something the expansion remedied fairly well).

Again, thanks for listening to us. Even though I'm a huge fan of most of the Paradox games, I'll still speak out when I feel I have some fair critizism. The fact that you apparently even want that sort of feedback is a very good thing. Well, obviously you'd rather have confirmation of your brilliance, but I've given that over IN already. HoI3 is looking terribly good, but I'll have to wait and see

 

[Chief Savage Ma]

The style of expansions so far is perfect for this game. I see vanilla HoI3 as an unfinished product. Just as vanilla EU3, HoI2, Vicky, and CK all generated huge volumes of feedback, we the community will be like thousands of testers, giving you suggestions. Then PI will create expansions that improve the gameplay tremendously. The best development process is one that continues far beyond the release date. PI seems to have the model down pat with EU3.
1. Release game.
2. Listen to feedback.
3. Release expansion.
4. Release another expansion if needed.
5. Let modders do the rest and move on to next project.

 

[Takeda Kenshi]

If it continious like this, it won't take long and all you get is a bare bone game and you will have to pay an extra Euro or Dollar for each little goody you want to have in the game to make it enjoyable or even playable. This might seem a bit exaggerated, but if you look at the trend of DLCs I can clearly see where it is going.

I'll focus on this aspect of your post as it has the most relevance to this thread. I think you're being a bit dramatic here. If this were the upcoming trend as you say, people would simply stop buying games. The last thing the game producer wants is to alienate its fans to the point of being unable to sell their product. What Paradox is doing is a)incredibly transparent and b) completely optional. As we have seen from the AAR from Singleton Mosby and previews on websites, the game is far from incomplete and barren. Asking an additional fee for content that takes additional development time and money is fine by me, especially when it is getting more and more cost prohibitive for companies to produce games (ESPECIALLY niche games.) While all the ire from the fan base about charging extra for additional(yet optional) content is understandable, Paradox must do all that is necessary to remain in business. The last thing we should be doing is lambasting them for attempting to draw in additional income via revenue streams from completely optional content. If we put walls up every time they try to draw in money from other areas, this could have an extremely negative impact on Paradox's ability to make money which in turn effects their ability to make games. I for one understand this; as long as Paradox continues to provide support for the main game absent of any required monetary transaction.

Optional content that can bring in extra income for Paradox to continue operation and pursue new games and expansion packs should not only be accepted, but encouraged.

 

[unmerged(134661)]

I love that the developers are asking the customers.

Personally, I like DLC and would be likely to purchase:

* sprite packs
* battlescenarios
* gameplay tweaks

More than anything, I would purchase any item that helped build out the Pacific War experience.

I love your games and the community they foster.

Cheers

 

[Alexander Seil]

It should be pointed out that non-expansion DLC would never contain gameplay tweaks according to Johan, as that would change the checksum (which he doesn't want).

All the non-expansion DLC discussed so far amounts to sprites, battlescenarios and music.

 

[Pablius]

Give us a 50s/60s cold war scenario, with some kind of scalation meter (defcon or whatever...), limited war is already implemented somehow...

An extended research tree (spy planes, satellites, early warning radars, integrated air defenses, the nuclear triad, etc) and a few new political, economical and diplomatic options...and there you go, either go the conteinment policy way or blow everything up and grab the pieces...

I would pay $20 for that, I will never pay $2 for sprites

 

[unmerged(11982)]

Here's what I think -

All counters should be removed from the game and added as an 'optional' dlc for $5 cost. After all they are an optional part of the game and as I never use them it wouldnt bother me in the slightest.

Oh, that would bother some of you eh?

Yet for some reason it seems to be perfectly fine to do this to the 'sprite' users.