Omen power underpowered?

[Denkt]

Obviously these numbers are not the ones that is nessicarly going to be in the release version but I use them to simply showcase how Little omen Power may be Worth.

The numbers are taken from the 12 november 2018 DD and I have translated them into the base values. For a base cost of 200 religious Power you get for a base of 5 years one of these:

• +5% discipline
• +20% Manpower
• +10% research Points
• +33% tax modifier
• +3% aggressive expansion decay
• +20% Commerce income
• -2 national unrest
• +0.20% population growth

Thus +10% omen Power would add:

• +0.5% discipline
• +2% Manpower
• +1% research Points
• +3.3% tax modifier
• +0.3% aggressive expansion decay
• +2% Commerce income
• -0.2 national unrest
• +0.02% population growth

Which is quite minimal even if you consider the advantage of the flexibility omens is countered by having to pay around 200 religious Power to start one.

 

[MohawkWolfo98]

I’m not sure where u got the numbers from, but I’ve attached a pic the benefits u could get from just 55% Owen Power (I got in from the Nov Dec diary as well).

Those look like insane buffs to me, abit too OP. Has the numbers changed since then, or is there something I’m missing? Feel free to correct me.

 

[Denkt]

I posted the base values in the first post which I calculated by simply Dividing the values with 1.55 (because 55% omen Power). For 55% these stuff is kind of weak, compare how much impact 55% extra tax rate would have or 55% extra discipline. If you want to see big bonuses, check the Egypt stream, Egypt start with 130% omen Power (I do not know how).

The gain from 10% omen Power is rather low. It is Worth for example the same as 3.3% tax rate if you use omen to increase your taxes.

Most omen Power increase come in quite high number to counteract the low value of each %. Religious technology seems to be the exception which only give 4% omen Power in the latest stream which seems underpowered compared to 5% Commerce and -1% wages or 0.1 morale and -25% military tradition cost. Maybe the innovations make up for the what to me seems like least valueable technology, but with these values it seems religious technology is the one that is least important.

Obviously omen Power have more flexibility but -1% wage is Always useful and probably very much so for large nations who maybe pay like 50% of their income in wages. Commerce income is also quite good. Morale if very useful in battles as it make it easier to avoid stackwhipe and probably easier to stackwhipe enemies. Tradition cost reduction is also very useful to get these rather powerful bonuses. Don't know how omen Power stack up with the Civic technology 2% country civilization increase. Civilization value give alot of good things and only drawback I know of is it make tribesmen unhappy but more civilization value mean happier Citizen and freemen which increase both Manpower and research speed and it also increase population growth.

 

[Denkt]

It seems there have been some balance Changes to omens as the values have been changed in the latest latest stream and are:

• +5% discipline
• +20% Manpower
• +10% research Points
• +20% tax modifier
• +5% aggressive expansion decay
• +20% Commerce income
• -2 national unrest
• +0.20% population growth

However more importantly it seems like the omen Power sources have been reduced, like the job now only give +2% omen Power instead of 5% which seems a bit like a move in the wrong direction because let look at how much 2% omen Power is actually Worth:

• +0.1% discipline
• +0.4% Manpower
• +0.2% research Points
• +0.4% tax modifier
• +0.1% aggressive expansion decay
• +0.4% Commerce income
• -0.04 national unrest
• +0.004% population growth

These numbers seems extreamly low, like the tax job give 5 times as much tax efficiency than the omen Power job give if omen is used to improve tax income. Even with the flexibility, omen Power seems to be Worth very Little. Maybe there is something Im missing here? With these numbers I can hardly see a reason why I would want to increase my omen Power at cost of pretty much anything else.

Maybe Im looking to much at the numbers and too Little at the larger Picture but I had much the same problem with EU: Rome as well (however it also had the problem of omen backfire).

 

[ow592]

extreamly low?
what you expect? give Egypt an omen with 100 % research bonus instead von 20 % and Egypt would have tanks and planes before the end of the game

 

[Denkt]

extreamly low?
what you expect? give Egypt an omen with 100 % research bonus instead von 20 % and Egypt would have tanks and planes before the end of the game

What are you talking about???

What Im saying is that the omen Power modifier seems to give very small bonuses. The base for the research omen is 10%. If you have +10% omen Power you will get 10%*1.1 = 11% research bonus instead of 10%, so the 10% omen Power is Worth +1% research speed if you choose the research omen. If you have +100% omen Power you will get 20% from the research omen.

Which is not much consider that I have seen one innovation give +10% research for example.

The omens themself are fine but Im not so sure about the value of omen Power as the numbers seems to be on the low side. And even if you consider flexibility, they are maybe too low to make it Worth picking innovations and such boosting it as you will most certainly give up something else to increase omen Power.

Maybe omen Power could have other benefits such as making it easier to convert pops to your religion.