Old World Map - (Arabia Universalis)

[cool-toxic]

Guys have you considered asking AGCEEP to adopt this map?

This map is fantastic and I hope you complete it! I am staying on EUII rather than EUIII and you have a LOT of fans.

How about a petition for AGCEEP to adopt this map when it comes out?

The map is finished per see. It is only the text files now that needs to be tweaked. But our map fits the Dark Ages. 1419-1820 will need America, Australia and rest of Africa. So no that would not be a good idea to have AGCEEP use our map. It is used for our mod and people who wants to use it are welcome, but mostly mods that takes place in the same timeframe as Arabia Universalis.

 

[cool-toxic]

Here is the new screenshots. Nations are now finished in Europe. Now Asia lacks and some more in Africa.

 

[Emperor_krk]

Here is the new screenshots. Nations are now finished in Europe. Now Asia lacks and some more in Africa.

Yeeeeees.

 

[Frank5]

seems very promising...

 

[elvain]

great, Alex

could you then upload the mod? I will test it for the first time
(or you can just send it to my email adress, if possible)

and then - if the events are not too hard to make - I can do also the events

 

[cool-toxic]

Good I will upload the mod when I am done making an installer.

 

[cool-toxic]

Here it is. I will upload on MKJ's page later.

http://files.filefront.com/Arabia+Universalisv102exe/;13722909;/fileinfo.html

 

[elvain]

great!

thanks

 

[cool-toxic]

I uploaded 1.02 on MKJ's page aswell. Link is here:

http://www.abtirsi.com/arabiauniversalis/Arabia_Universalisv102.exe

 

[Third Angel]

Thanks again, cool-toxic.

I thought maybe I could help you again by naming the sea zones at least in the West, unless you want to have medieval sounding names for them too.

I am also in the process of finding Indian city names, so maybe that could be of some interest to you as our time frames are very close.


Lastly, I know you don't want to redraw the map now but, in my opinion, this Odra province looks very weird.

Did anyone ever held the Orissan backcountry together with this tiny part of the Ganges' valley? As far as I have seen, some Empires used to control the whole valley without necessarily extending that far South. Also, it makes it very fast to reach the Himalayas from the coast.

 

[cool-toxic]

The map is based on these which we use for the country placement.

http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_700ad.jpg

http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_800ad.jpg

http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_900ad.jpg

http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_1000ad.jpg

Oh and yes that would be very much welcome.

 

[Mad King James]

Thanks again, cool-toxic.

I thought maybe I could help you again by naming the sea zones at least in the West, unless you want to have medieval sounding names for them too.

I am also in the process of finding Indian city names, so maybe that could be of some interest to you as our time frames are very close.


Lastly, I know you don't want to redraw the map now but, in my opinion, this Odra province looks very weird.

Did anyone ever held the Orissan backcountry together with this tiny part of the Ganges' valley? As far as I have seen, some Empires used to control the whole valley without necessarily extending that far South. Also, it makes it very fast to reach the Himalayas from the coast.

The province is definitely meant to be a Ganges valley province, despite the fact the majority of its territory is outside the Ganges valley.

Technically there could have been two provinces here, but that was just me being a province limit nazi.
Having made several maps before this project, I am much more brutal in terms of province trimming than most people.

There just isn't a heck of a lot there in that part of Orissa, especially in this era.
Wouldn't really hurt though I suppose to split that guy up.

 

[Third Angel]

The province is definitely meant to be a Ganges valley province, despite the fact the majority of its territory is outside the Ganges valley.

[...]
Wouldn't really hurt though I suppose to split that guy up.

Sounds like you are kind of agreeing with me that the province is strangely shaped. I don't think we need another province though.

If cool-toxic would consider it, I was thinking about something like this (I hope the map is clear enough, the northern bank should go to Anga and the southern one to Magadha.):

Also, I am now working on South-East Asia, and I have found two (minor) problems concerning provinces' names. When redrawing Odra, you may seize the opportunity to do something about them.

1. The "Sukhotai" province cannot possibly include the Sukhotai city which seems to have been a hundred miles west of the Mekong, so somewhere in the middle of the "Thap Chumphon". I have no precise idea for now about a new name for the province but I will think about it if you agree to change it.

2. The second issue concerns the "Bagan" province. I remember what you told me about the "Calabria" province which I thought was misnamed: that Calabria was the ancient name for the "heel" and only later came to designate the "tip" of the boot. From what I have read, Pagan is the ancient name here, or Pukam, while Bagan is the modern form. For consistency's sake, I thought maybe we should stick to ancient names everywhere.

Now, if I am just being annoying with my humble requests, please just tell me so and I'll stop. I am already very much grateful for the map you provided.

 

[cool-toxic]

I need to edit Morocco anyway so I can edit this. Riksha will gain some more of Odra when I am at it.

And I just found out that Sarkel near in Volga Bulgars is named wrong. It should be Kazan.

 

[Third Angel]

I need to edit Morocco anyway so I can edit this. Riksha will gain some more of Odra when I am at it.

This is just great. Thanks a lot, again.

Now, if I understood correctly that you will take into account all of my proposals, how about renaming "Sukhotai" to "Nakhon Phanom"?


Or should it be "phnom" instead of "phanom" (like you have "Phnom Chisor" further south)? Or should it be "Nagara Bhnam" (I can't find out if this an older form, or sanskrit, or both)?

Now it's late and I am confused. :wacko:

 

[Mad King James]

Sounds like you are kind of agreeing with me that the province is strangely shaped. I don't think we need another province though.

If cool-toxic would consider it, I was thinking about something like this (I hope the map is clear enough, the northern bank should go to Anga and the southern one to Magadha.):

This would not work though because Odra is a city by the Ganges.
Better to trim off the unimportant bottom than the top of Odra.

Also, I am now working on South-East Asia, and I have found two (minor) problems concerning provinces' names. When redrawing Odra, you may seize the opportunity to do something about them.

1. The "Sukhotai" province cannot possibly include the Sukhotai city which seems to have been a hundred miles west of the Mekong, so somewhere in the middle of the "Thap Chumphon". I have no precise idea for now about a new name for the province but I will think about it if you agree to change it.

2. The second issue concerns the "Bagan" province. I remember what you told me about the "Calabria" province which I thought was misnamed: that Calabria was the ancient name for the "heel" and only later came to designate the "tip" of the boot. From what I have read, Pagan is the ancient name here, or Pukam, while Bagan is the modern form. For consistency's sake, I thought maybe we should stick to ancient names everywhere.

Now, if I am just being annoying with my humble requests, please just tell me so and I'll stop. I am already very much grateful for the map you provided.

1) There have been more than one city named Sukhotai, and the one I am referring to is in modern Cambodia, not Thailand.
2) Bagan is the modern (correct) pronounciation, the actual spelling of the kingdom and city has always remained the same in Burmese.

 

[Third Angel]

This would not work though because Odra is a city by the Ganges.
Better to trim off the unimportant bottom than the top of Odra.

I'm sorry but I can't find anything about an Odra city upon the Ganges river. As far as I am aware, Odra was a region of Northern inland Orissa which would fit quite well with the Southern part of our Odra province.

1) There have been more than one city named Sukhotai, and the one I am referring to is in modern Cambodia, not Thailand.
2) Bagan is the modern (correct) pronounciation, the actual spelling of the kingdom and city has always remained the same in Burmese.

1. Sorry again but I can't find anything about a Cambodian Sukhothai. The Thai one seems to be pretty well documented. See here and there for instance.

2. A minor point really. I don't know anything about pronounciation but did the Burmese ever used the Latin alphabet? If not, how can you argue about correct spelling? Again, most English-speaking sites give Bagan as the modern form and Pagan as the ancient kingdom (see also the maps I provided).


Lastly, I find you to be very assertive about a subject (location of places mentioned in ancient texts in India and Indochina) that seems to be very blurry to even specialized historians.

 

[cool-toxic]

Well we also use other names which are modern in latin, though it is the correct name. Just like the whole Iran/Persia thing.

About Odra, we can just split the province in two which would be easiest.

 

[Mad King James]

You are probably right about Odra, never mind me, it's been a long week.

In regard to Cambodia though, the Khmer Empire renamed everything after they conquered most of southest Asia, including what was at the time called Sukhotai (not Sukhothai), I think they renamed it Yom or something.

The whole city no longer exists today, though there are a few ruins.

 

[Third Angel]

If cool-toxic would consider it, I was thinking about something like this (I hope the map is clear enough, the northern bank should go to Anga and the southern one to Magadha).

Riksha will gain some more of Odra when I am at it.

You are probably right about Odra, never mind me, it's been a long week.

Ok, so hopefully we can divide northern "Odra" between "Magadha", "Vanga" and "Riksha".

In regard to Cambodia though, the Khmer Empire renamed everything after they conquered most of southest Asia, including what was at the time called Sukhotai (not Sukhothai), I think they renamed it Yom or something.

I'll trust you on this, but we'd have to rename "Sukhothai" to "Sukhotai" then.

Well we also use other names which are modern in latin, though it is the correct name. Just like the whole Iran/Persia thing.

I am fine with "Bagan" here if this is your decision. Like I said, it is quite an unimportant issue.