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Mad King James

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I believe that MKJ's latest setup is the best and I support that setup. With the latest setup the Orthodox churches can convert to each other as well. ;)

However, I believe maybe Oriental Orthodox should be Nestorian instead? The Oriental and Orthodox churches after all, all agreed Jesus being one person. And Nestorian who believed Jesus was two persons. And today the churches are close to a communion again. ;)

I don't think we need Orthodox as a separate religion, the East-West Schism was in 1054, and didn't have much significance until 1204.
I'd say just have Catholic, but substitute Apostolic Catholic where I put Orthodox.

The Nestorians don't actually believe there are two Christs, that's what they were accused of believing at the Council of Ephesus by Cyril of Alexandria.
The whole thing is basically about whether the human birthed aspect of Christ, the fleshy man, contains the hypostases or aspects of Christ thus making Mary "Mother of God", or if the fleshy man is one aspect that Mary birthed and that the other aspects are part of Christ but exist seperate from the body, thus merely making her "Mother of Christ".
Ironically the Council of Chalcedon then went on to say that Christ had two natures, one divine and the other human, thus seemingly vindicating Nestorius, which is why Cyril's successors then broke communion and formed the Oriental Orthodox churches, since they condemned literally everyone else as being Nestorians.

Basically it boils down to:
Catholics and Eastern Orthodox: Christ has two natures (divine and human) within his body and his divine nature survived crucification (could not be killed)
Oriental Orthodox (Coptic, Ethiopian Tewahedo, Armenian Orthodox): Christ has one nature (a divine human) both of which were crucified and killed
Assyrian (Nestorian): Christ has two natures (divine and human) but his body is wholly human, and his divine nature was not crucified.

CATHOLIC;Catholic;;;;;;;;;;2234
PROTESTANT;Assyrian Catholic;;;;;;;;;;2235
ORTHODOX;Jewish;;;;;;;;;;2236
SUNNI;Sunni;;;;;;;;;;2237
SHIITE;Shiite;;;;;;;;;;2238
PAGAN;Folk Religion;;;;;;;;;;2239
REFORMED;Oriental Orthodox;;;;;;;;;;2240
CREFCATHOLIC;Counter-Schismatic;;;;;;;;;;2241
MOSLEM;Moslem;;;;;;;;;;2242
CHRISTIAN;Christian;;;;;;;;;;2243
KONFUCIAN;Ditheist;;;;;;;;;;2244
BUDDHIST;Polytheism;;;;;;;;;;2245
HINDU;Dharma;;;;;;;;;;2246

religions.bmp


This is why the anti-Chalcedonian churches use the term "Orthodox", as they consider the other churches to have gone against the Council of Ephesus and are heretics.
 
Last edited:

Mad King James

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cool-toxic:
We don't need seperate tags for Ife, Oyo and Yoruba. At this point in time all Yoruba, Oyo included, were ruled by the same king at Ife. The king of Ife moved his capital to Oyo only in the 1400s. The Yoruba did not actually build Ife, but conquered it from the Igbo some time prior to 500 CE.

The proper name would be Yoruba, as the Yoruba were still a clan-based society under a semi-divine king. It was only late into the 11th century when the Yoruba cities dissolved the clan system and established a new order of centralized city states, rather than the previous loose confederacy centered at Ife.
 
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cool-toxic

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Okay I must say I find it hard to try to make head and tail out of this. :) But I think we should agree upon this last one which all can agree upon I think.

About West Africa I did not add you changes on last page. ;) If you got time after doing the cultures and religion for Ethiopia would you be kind to make a proposal on map for West Africa ? :)

Thank you very much.
 

Emperor_krk

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Byzantium shouldn't have direct land access to Epirus.
The thing is, if they don't get access to Epirus, I think the AI won't be able to handle this. Those provinces would revolt away from them all too quickly, or f.ex. BYZ will have its army trapped there and won't be able (due to AI stupidity) to transport it back to, say, Constantinople, which would be besieged by someone.

Another possibility is to give BYZ military access through the Slavic tribes of central Greece - which would also be quite historically plausible, because in the middle ages it wasn't that unusual for armies to march through neutral territory.
 

Basileios I

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Another possibility is to give BYZ military access through the Slavic tribes of central Greece - which would also be quite historically plausible, because in the middle ages it wasn't that unusual for armies to march through neutral territory.

Agreed.

And they did historically send armies through this (nominally imperial) territory.
 

cool-toxic

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Link to a interactive map of Francia.

http://www.francia.ahlfeldt.se/maps.php?zoom=90&city=49&divisio=768&layer1=a1

I've been working on the monarch lists for the various Frankish states. The civil war starts in 714.

Code:
711 - Neustria and Burgundy unified under Grimoald II, 
Austrasia under Pepin of Herstal.
Aquitaine under Odo the Great.

714 - Grimoald II dies and soon after also Pepin of Herstal.
Neustria and Burgundy is taken by Pepin of Herstal's first wife Plectrude for her son Grimoald II's infant Theudoald. 
Austrasia elects Charles Martel as Mayor of the Palace.

715 - Neustria and Burgundy is ruled by Ragenfrid.

718 - Charles Martel has united the kingdom.

741 - Charles Martel dies and his two sons inherit.
Neustria and Burgundy is ruled by Pepin the Short.
Austrasia is ruled by Carloman.

747 - Austrasia is ruled by Drogo.

751 - Pepin the Short declares, with support from the nobility and the Pope, himself King of the Franks thus the kingdom is unified.

768 - Pepin the Short dies and his two sons inherits.
Francia is ruled by Charles I the Great
Burgundy is ruled by Carloman I

771 - Carloman I dies and is succeeded by Charles I the Great.
Charles is now sole ruler.

781 - Charles I the Great gives land to his sons. [COLOR="YellowGreen"]#Charles the Younger should gain nothing however.#[/COLOR]
Italy is created and ruled by his son Pepin of Italy.
Aquitaine is created and ruled by his son Louis the Pious.

810 - Pepin of Italy dies and is succeeded by his son Bernard of Italy.

814 - Charles I the Great dies and is succeeded by his son Louis the Pious.
Francia and Aquitaine is united under Louis the Pious.

817 - Louis the Pious gives land to his sons.
Italy is ruled by Lothair, Bernard is deposed.
Bavaria is ruled by Louis the Great.
Aquitaine is created again and now ruled by his son Pepin I.

From then on the Kingdom is split in Francia, Italy and Germany.
Italy is split in three in 755, Italy, Lotharingia and Burgundy.

Later Germany, Italy, Burgundy and Lotharingia are united under Otto I in 951.
 

Basileios I

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May I ask, what's MER?

Wasn't the Hab tag the preferred tag? Just make Byzantium HAB and they become Emperor by default?


BTW, shouldn't Ravenna have cores on all of Italy?

And Thessaly/Boetia should be occupied by a Slavic State.
 

elvain

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Great progress, guys!

I feel so sorry that I don't know how to help you right now...

Anyway, still watching :)
 

cool-toxic

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May I ask, what's MER?

Wasn't the Hab tag the preferred tag? Just make Byzantium HAB and they become Emperor by default?´

MER is mercenaries. They are always ingame and nothing except events can change relations towards them. Thus Byzantium will always be best friends with MER the only elector just before each election. ;)

HAB only gets a bonus, but if another nation is on better terms with the elector then that nation will be Emperor. This may not happen.

BTW, shouldn't Ravenna have cores on all of Italy?

And Thessaly/Boetia should be occupied by a Slavic State.

Of course, but atm I'm only adding the sketch. We need to speed up things. The province.csv still needs a great overhaul..
I'll add the cores for Ravenna.

Great progress, guys!

I feel so sorry that I don't know how to help you right now...

Anyway, still watching :)

We couldn't have come this far without you. :) I hope you soon get EU2 so that you can play and help us. ;)
 

Mad King James

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MER could furthermore make random worldwide decisions.
One final variation on the religion list, Jewish should be more than just Jewish but Monotheist, including Judaism but also Samaritans, Elamites, Druze, Arians, Alawis, monist Gnostics, and other single-god religions like Waaqa.

Graphics should remain the same, just change Jewish to Monotheist.
 

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Okay. Thanks. ;)
About Shungwaya what were they? Not Zoroastrian I would guess?

Btw, just making sure you saw my post about religion map of Ehtiopia and a political map of West Africa.?

No Shungwaya is most certainly Zoroastrian, or I guess Ditheist under our new setup. They are a Swahili successor kingdom to the Bazrangid Empire.

Banadir, while conquered by the Caliphate, was also Zoroastrian as well, though that was never a center of Swahili civilization and was still Persian at this point, though rapidly turning Arab.

I guess for rule of thumb, Axum's territory and the area it has cores on in Caliphate held territory along the north coast are Oriental Orthodox EXCEPT the provinces that directly border the lake that the Blue Nile flows into and the provinces that Galla has cores on. Shungwaya is Ditheist, and everything else is Monotheist (either Jewish or Waaqa).

The only weird exception to this is Bari, which is Oriental Orthodox at this point as well,
 

Mad King James

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I've started work on the northern half of east Asia.
Asia.png
 

elvain

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wow! that loks great!

btw if you want to continue I think I can find some maps for India, especially the north and maybe also Tibet