Old World Map - (Arabia Universalis)

[Third Angel]

Okay so Basileios if you make a list of who gets a tribe name and which nations can be created later on by tribes, then I'll begin to rework naming of Irish and British provinces. Seems like they were named based on various languages? And if we use the English rule then it should be Ulster and not Uladh which in it self is wrong compared to how the others are spelled it would be Ulaidh if I'm not wrong. Thus the nations will also gain English names.

I think I'll rework the provinces of Ireland to something that will show this better:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Ireland_early_peoples_and_politics.gif

I think we should merge Munster into one province, it was not untill 1119 that it was seperated into Desmond and Thomond so instead I would give the province to Airgíalla in the north. Thus we split the current Airgíalla in Ailech and Airgíalla.
Meath and Ailech will be ruled by the Southern and Northern O'Neil's.

So... it sounds like you are reworking the map after all. Should we begin posting our minor requests here?

On topic, that map you are linking to does not take into acount the Viking settlements, maybe at least some of them should be kept. I don't know much about this area though so I will let other people speak up about it. I'll reserve myself for Spain and France.

 

[Basileios I]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Ireland_early_peoples_and_politics.gif

I think we should merge Munster into one province, it was not untill 1119 that it was seperated into Desmond and Thomond so instead I would give the province to Airgíalla in the north. Thus we split the current Airgíalla in Ailech and Airgíalla.
Meath and Ailech will be ruled by the Southern and Northern O'Neil's.

Ok. But keep the provinces along the coast for settlement by the Vikings.

Oh and I have a request:

On province 1106, remove this "peninsula" and attach it to province 1105 instead. It's a pain in my eyes.

 

[cool-toxic]

So... it sounds like you are reworking the map after all. Should we begin posting our minor requests here?

On topic, that map you are linking to does not take into acount the Viking settlements, maybe at least some of them should be kept. I don't know much about this area though so I will let other people speak up about it. I'll reserve myself for Spain and France.

Well you are welcome, we'll look at it.

Yes of course I did not intent to remove those, maybe just scale them a bit.

Oh and I have a request:

On province 1106, remove this "peninsula" and attach it to province 1105 instead. It's a pain in my eyes.

But the Byzantine had control of Cherson untill 980 when the Kiev ruer captured it.

The rest of Crimea was under Khazar rule.

 

[Basileios I]

But the Byzantine had control of Cherson untill 980 when the Kiev ruer captured it.

The rest of Crimea was under Khazar rule.

No no no, you are misunderstanding me ...


Just remove the small peninsula which is attached to Kherson in the North and attach it to Crimea proper. It looks better then.

 

[cool-toxic]

No no no, you are misunderstanding me ...


Just remove the small peninsula which is attached to Kherson in the North and attach it to Crimea proper. It looks better then.

Oh heh I understand and agree.

 

[Third Angel]

Well you are welcome, we'll look at it.

Well, since you are asking for it, here it goes.

The county of Nantes did lie on both sides of the Loire, and was quite often united with the county of Vannes. This is impossible to model actually (note that I may argue longer about it if needed).





I already told you about my issues with Iberia by PM, I may do so again here if people feel like debating about them (luckily enough, for you, so far we don't seem to have started again the heated map-discussions there used to be on these forums a couple of years ago, that was my biggest fear when coming up with my small changes).





These changes would require no new provinces and, while I don't think they would be detrimental to your early timeframe, they would help alot for people interested in later medieval periods. Thanks again.

 

[cool-toxic]

The March of Brittany controlled all the way south of Rennes to the Loire, it only controlled little south of Loire namely Retz.
So in order to show Brittany correct and have the river defence, Nantes is in Harbauges.

About Iberia, I think the only reason for doing these changes would be to prevent an attack from the sea through 54 to Toledo(59). Anyway Deira should not gain more land, only Todmir can get land from 57.

Btw, Irish monarchs are done now. I'll start on putting countries on the map again.

 

[cool-toxic]

Okay here is Britain.

I have not yet added Scotland and Ireland as you see. '

I made Devon under Cornwall anyway just to make them live longer.

Btw, I think the cultures should be Celtic/Gaelic, Brythonic and Pictish. And I was thinking giving Anglian, Jutish and Saxon their own culture in England might be wrong.. I don't think there should be such penalties between them. This is thinking of gameplay. Maybe just add Anglo-Saxon(Britain) and Saxon(Continent) which was proposed earlier I think.

EDIT: Monarchs for East Anglia, Lombardia, Byzantium and Visigothia are done. Visigothia got fantasy monarchs all the way till 1031. I think countries which are most likely to be played or survive to 1031 should gain fantasy monarchs. Does make it more fun. I even gave them an interregnum period to make it plausible.
By combining the monarch lists from 476 mod and AJFIFU we have the whole time frame and a lot more. So monarch files won't take much time. We just have to give new ID's and make sure they fit and then also edit some values were needed.

 

[cool-toxic]

I made the Iberian, Irish and British changes. Also Crimea will be done.

Here is Ireland and Britain:

 

[cool-toxic]

New ID map and new 711 setup map.

http://www.abtirsi.com/arabiauniversalis/AU_IDmap.jpg

http://www.abtirsi.com/arabiauniversalis/AU_711Scenario.jpg

 

[Mad King James]

Hey cool-toxic.

I've been doing a lot of research and I've realized my setup needs to be changed, it is too modern, and also the role the Caliphate played in the horn is not stated.

What I have modelled is the horn in the post-Ummayad era, and having researched the matter I discovered that the Caliphate actually conquered a good chunk of the horn in the pre-Ummayad era. Most of the Arabs who went to the horn were from prestigious Quraishi families, or at least claimed to be, so when the Abbasids deposed the Ummayads in 750, many Ummayad loyalists fled to the horn and established themselves at Zeila.

It is from the influence, and direct descent of these people that the Somali and many Afar are descended.

Many of the states I put originally are far too late. The Somali did not really even exist as a nation until about 1200, which was when the sultanate of Mogadishu was founded as an independent entity, which is well outside the time of the game.

One major factor in this early timeframe is the initial expansion of the Galla, a name nowadays associated with Oromo people as a pejorative term, but referring rather to their ancestors. The Galla conquered most of Shewa, moving their capital there in 867 to found the Kingdom of Sawa. Sawa became Muslim in 1108 when King Harba'ir converted to Islam.

I am also, in my original setup, trying to hard to represent the political subkingdoms, which I don't think really rate independence. They were constituent parts of their respective states.

Axum in this timeframe is in a lot of trouble, and will end up losing territory to Jabart and the Galla until the warlord Yekuno Amlak came to the throne in 1270 and reconquered much of southern Ethiopia and retaking the coast from Jabart.

Jabart expanded into the highlands in 1285 under Umar Walashma, finishing off Sawa and then moving his capital inland to Ifat, founding the Sultanate of Ifat (still Jabart).

Also, the seperate Cushite cultures were not differentiated at this point. Hadiya, Somali and Afar should all just be Cushite I think. Agaw was a seperate identity from ancient times though, and they are a seperate culture. The religion and terrain setup remains unchanged.

Here is my revised map:

 

[cool-toxic]

Hey.

Okay thank you very much. The dots you have made do they show the cores ?
This setup sure does free up a lot of tags.

Should Zaghawa and Alodia share a common border? And do you got some ideas about the rest of Africa?

Speaking about the relgion setup, do you got that map? I seem to have forgotten to save it, it seems. I got the rest but not this one. Or is it the nation religions as you wrote previously?

 

[Third Angel]

Cool-toxic, thank you so much for the Iberian changes.


About the Breton March, I understand your point of view but I still think it's a mistake to focus so heavily on an institution that lasted for less than a century, between mid-eighth and mid-ninth centuries.

Your map, as it stands, leaves us with two options for the nearly two centuries after that, up to 1031 for your timeframe: having Nantes and Rennes in the same province 207 or putting Nantes in 205 but leaving the province outside of Britanny. Both are equally wrong, I think, if one considers respectively the intense rivalry between the two Counts during this later period and the importance of Nantes as a Breton city in that same period.

The only other option I could come up with and which I will personally use is to have Harbauges stand as the County of Nantes. Yes, it is too big, but that is not a real concern to me. The real concern is that it does not lie at all on the Northern bank of the Loire and, as a consequence, that it does not border the province which contains Vannes.

The minor (the slight coastal band that would make 205 and 206 adjacent needs not be as large as I made it in my above post) change I am requesting would not be detrimental to your modelling of the Breton March while it would allow me to have an acceptable County of Nantes, and that without having to redraw the whole area.


Of course you are the one doing the real hard work, so be assured that whatever you decide, there'll be no hard feelings. Thanks again for all your efforts.

 

[Mad King James]

The Galla need to be set up to be very strong, they should be a very poweful group that defeated and conquered Shungwaya and Axum.

Jabart breaks away from the Abbasid empire during the disintegration period about 900 CE.

I have king lists for these:

Jabart:
Aqeeli or Jeberti dynasty:
Ibrahim ibn Abd al-Rahman (c.890-c.920)
Isma'il ibn Ibrahim (c.920-c.950)
Abd al-Rahman ibn Ismail (c.950-c.980)
Mohammed ibn Abd al-Rahman (c.980-c.1010)
Abdirahman ibn Mohammed (c.1010-c.1040)
Amtalo ibn Abdirahman (c.1040-c.1070)

Galla:
Raabo (c.700-c.730)
Hadeya (c.730-c.760)
Shara (c.760-c.790)
Oofa (c.790-c.820)
Dawwaaro (c.820-c.850)
Jilicha (c.850-c.880)
Walaabu (c.880-c.910)
Biite (c.910-c.940)
Uttee (c.940-c.970)
Daadhii (c.970-c.1000)
Maya (fem.) (c.1000-c.1030)
Budit (fem.) (c.1030-1063)
Waaqo (c.1063-c.1090)
Harba'ir (c.1090-c.1120)

 

[Mad King James]

Hey.

Okay thank you very much. The dots you have made do they show the cores ?
This setup sure does free up a lot of tags.

Should Zaghawa and Alodia share a common border? And do you got some ideas about the rest of Africa?

Speaking about the relgion setup, do you got that map? I seem to have forgotten to save it, it seems. I got the rest but not this one. Or is it the nation religions as you wrote previously?

West Africa should be quite interesting in this period. They are indeed cores, and the purple dots denote core areas of Jabart.

Alodia was quite big and powerful, and controlled Kordofan right through until Alodia came under the Funj dynasty and moved to Sennar. Alodia and Zaghawa were indeed neighbors. The Sultan of Darfur conquered Kordofan briefly in the early modern era, but that's well outside our timeframe. Kanem controlled Kordofan for a time as well I recall.

I'll make a new culture and religion map tomorrow.

 

[cool-toxic]

Third Angel, at the moment I do not intent to change this area. I just looked the issue up and Vannes/Gwened was ruled by the Bretons, while Nantes and Rennes were under Frankish control untill around 843 when they were conquered by the Bretons. I know the march was made up by two counties, but as we hit the limit we can not add more provinces. And changing the borders would be historical uncorrect. Have a look at this map.

http://www.maproom.org/00/46/present.php?m=0029

Thank you very much MKJ this helps a lot!

EDIT: And the cities will be the following:

Brittany - Gwened
Breton March - Rennes
Harbauges - Olonne

 

[unmerged(93862)]

Hey C-T,
sometimes I find You on messenger ...
how can I insert that blue texture about sea in sea zones?
Is it due to a file?

 

[cool-toxic]

I used a texture from a file and actions, but please next time use MSN, email or this group http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/group.php?groupid=136.

This is not the place to talk about this. We have enough of posts to keep track with.

 

[Basileios I]

Third Angel, at the moment I do not intent to change this area. I just looked the issue up and Vannes/Gwened was ruled by the Bretons, while Nantes and Rennes were under Frankish control untill around 843 when they were conquered by the Bretons. I know the march was made up by two counties, but as we hit the limit we can not add more provinces. And changing the borders would be historical uncorrect. Have a look at this map.

Wait?

Did you hit the limit in that region or the total province limit? I find the latter hard to believe.

After all the map should be extended to China/India/SE-Asia at a later point in time as well.

 

[cool-toxic]

Wait?

Did you hit the limit in that region or the total province limit? I find the latter hard to believe.

After all the map should be extended to China/India/SE-Asia at a later point in time as well.

We hit the limit in that region and the bordering aswell. And there are enough IDs for the rest of the world, however, I find it highly unlikely that this part of the map will be finished in this year. o

Now we have to get going with the mod. I'll keep on adding nations to the scenario and put Elvain's edits to the province.csv into the updated. Then you could do the manpower, tax and populations ?

EDIT: At the moment we have the religons as following:

CATHOLIC;Muslim;;;;;;;;;;2234
PROTESTANT;Zoroastrian;;;;;;;;;;2235
REFORMED;Christian;;;;;;;;;;2240
ORTHODOX;Jewish;;;;;;;;;;2236

But should we not make it:

CATHOLIC;Christian;;;;;;;;;;2234
PROTESTANT;Muslim;;;;;;;;;;2235
REFORMED;Jewish;;;;;;;;;;2240
ORTHODOX;Zoroastrian;;;;;;;;;;2236
This way we can seperate Zoroastrian from the Abrahamic religions. It would make no sense if the Christians have to convert through Zoroastrian before being able to go Muslim. So now Christians can convert to Muslim, Muslim to Jewish and vice versa. Maybe we could use the "HRE" as some sort of Caliphate. We make the MER tag have highest relations with the Caliphate as nation thus they will become "HRE" each time. The HRE borders could then extent over the territory which the Caliphate conquered in this period.

The last thing about HRE is just an idea. Needs to be tested of course.