Old Hoi2 player confused

[The Rain Man]

Hi!

It's been a while, but I have now downloaded Hoi4 with the latest patch (but no expansions) from Steam.

As an old Hoi2 player, I thought I would figure it out quite easy. However, I find the game confusing, strange and boring.
I now play as the Soviet Union. Sending 6 divisions to help the Republican Span went fine, but it was very difficult to spot the frontline. All I saw was some divisions "walking around". Is there a button I can click to make the front line easier to see?
The game itself feels very boring since nothing much happens during the years 1936-1939. Very few events poping up. Some do, but makes often little diffence too me. Some of can be possbily critical, like war-mongering Japan on my border, but this isnt portrayed very well.
In 1940 I attack Finland. Even if I manage to **** up with giving my generals the wrong orders, it's very easy, since the Finns have no fortifications and just 3 divisions guarding the Karelian Isthmus, so it was very easy to brush them aside and walk to Helsinki.

Overall, it have been a great disapointment to play Hoi4, as an old Hoi2 player. Is it just me doing something wrong or is the game?

 

[Harin]

If you are playing Russia, on normal difficulty, and historical turned on, the time between 36-41 is mostly getting ready for the German invasion. That can seem boring as you fast forward at speed 5 until then. I just played Russia recently, so I know.

Have you played your game long enough for the Germans to attack yet? That is when those years of preparations are tested. For many of us, our first play through as Russia saw us lacking, requiring a new economic and military build strategy. I know it took me several games before I got the Purge timed right and had a military that did not get steamrolled. I could have saved myself time by looking for Russian strategies on the internet, but to me, learning a winning strategy is most of the game for the Russians.

 

[Eh up me duck]

Well I have been playing HOI since HOI 1, so I don't think it's anything to do with being "old school".

Learn to actually play the game before casting aspertions on it. The best way to do this is by watching youtube videos and some trial and error.

 

[safe-keeper]

Welcome to the forums!

Yes, 4 is a very different beast from HoI2.

Firstly, I wonder why you have problems seeing the frontline. The frontlines are these big zipper-like things that clutter up my screen, and shouldn't be hard to spot. Are you sure you set a frontline for your troops? Or do you mean that all the stuff going on (3D models, counters, etc.) obscured the frontline?

No, there isn't much to do until the war starts. I haven't played HoI2 too much, but maybe there's more going on there. You'll have to busy yourself setting up production and research, but mostly it's just waiting for the war to begin.

The AI isn't that good yet, sadly, so walking over minors is pretty easy ATM.

I personally think HoI4 can be great fun, but to be honest I haven't played too many full campaigns, and when I do, I usually win way before 1945, and I've lost interest in favour of newer games. I'll wait for the next patch and DLC to pick it up again.

That said... it has enormous potential and some great innovations (IMO). The new production system is great, and the battle planner, if given some more love, can be a real game-changer, and playing with historical AI turned off can be surprisingly interesting, even if some bizarre things happen. I especially like to play with the US behaviour set to random and the US given some bonuses, to make them a kind of wildcard that might just turn against me.

Here is the roadmap of the devs if you want to know what they're planning for future updates. Tl;dr version is they're making it more realistic/challenging with each update. There's a reworked supply system coming, for example.

 

[enigma_]

Overall, it have been a great disapointment to play Hoi4, as an old Hoi2 player. Is it just me doing something wrong or is the game?

I have played all 4 of the HOI series since 2004 which shows that I am no spring chicken!!

Also, have played hundreds of hours of HOI-4 and unfortunately it is my least favourite of the entire series. For example, the fact that the USA can field 400+ full strength divisions during the war is nothing short of ridiculous IMHO. This is called “division spam” and the list could go on of the things that bug me about HOI-4

All of the HOI series have advantages and disadvantages but I feel that HOI-4 does not live up to its potential.

 

[him_15]

I play all HOI 2, 3 and 4. And yes It was difficult and confusing when I first switched to HOI4, but once you get used to all the new feature mechanic it is a very enjoyable game.

 

[Leinad965]

I have played all 4 of the HOI series since 2004 which shows that I am no spring chicken!!

Also, have played hundreds of hours of HOI-4 and unfortunately it is my least favourite of the entire series. For example, the fact that the USA can field 400+ full strength divisions during the war is nothing short of ridiculous IMHO. This is called “division spam” and the list could go on of the things that bug me about HOI-4

All of the HOI series have advantages and disadvantages but I feel that HOI-4 does not live up to its potential.

USA had bigger industry and bigger population than SSSR, so historical USA is probably capable of fielding 800+ divisions, if they want. Historical USA just only focused on different strategy (focus on lot of weapons, sending lot of lend lease, soldier life is most important).


Edit: sorry, USA had cca 10% smaller population than SSSR

 

[The Rain Man]

Thanks for the replies, specialy to safe-keeper.

Firstly, I wonder why you have problems seeing the frontline. The frontlines are these big zipper-like things that clutter up my screen, and shouldn't be hard to spot. Are you sure you set a frontline for your troops? Or do you mean that all the stuff going on (3D models, counters, etc.) obscured the frontline?

When I zoom out, its quite easy to see the frontline. However, when Im close, it's difficult and confusing do the the stuff going on (3d models etc). In Hoi2 this was always very easy.

Are there any expansions that are considered a "must have" by the comunity? Or any mods that manage to better the AI?

In my current game Germany doesnt attack me after I have annexed Finland. This is perhaps to due the restricted front that they can attack trough (Poland only, I have not attacked the baltic countries) and my high density of divisions lined up (80 or so).

 

[Secret Master]

All I saw was some divisions "walking around". Is there a button I can click to make the front line easier to see?

I'm not sure about seeing the front line, but I find the "soldiers walking around" to be distracting. I advise swapping to NATO counters under the game options menu.

 

[The Rain Man]

I'm not sure about seeing the front line, but I find the "soldiers walking around" to be distracting. I advise swapping to NATO counters under the game options menu.

Thanks, I will try.

 

[BloodAsp]

Hi!

It's been a while, but I have now downloaded Hoi4 with the latest patch (but no expansions) from Steam.

As an old Hoi2 player, I thought I would figure it out quite easy. However, I find the game confusing, strange and boring.
I now play as the Soviet Union. Sending 6 divisions to help the Republican Span went fine, but it was very difficult to spot the frontline. All I saw was some divisions "walking around". Is there a button I can click to make the front line easier to see?
The game itself feels very boring since nothing much happens during the years 1936-1939. Very few events poping up. Some do, but makes often little diffence too me. Some of can be possbily critical, like war-mongering Japan on my border, but this isnt portrayed very well.
In 1940 I attack Finland. Even if I manage to **** up with giving my generals the wrong orders, it's very easy, since the Finns have no fortifications and just 3 divisions guarding the Karelian Isthmus, so it was very easy to brush them aside and walk to Helsinki.

Overall, it have been a great disapointment to play Hoi4, as an old Hoi2 player. Is it just me doing something wrong or is the game?

Old HOI2 veteran here (I still play it from time to time, always majors for quick fun )
First of all:
1. I totally understand. I used to manage whole fronts in HOI2 manually, now you have to use AI or go mad.
2. I loved to play as SU in HOI2 just because you had so much peace to build up you dream army . Why would you attack anybody anyway? You have plenty of IC, tons of resources and very low GDE. Just sit down, smell the roses, purge, prepare for Barbarossa

 

[Eh up me duck]

I have played all 4 of the HOI series since 2004 which shows that I am no spring chicken!!

Also, have played hundreds of hours of HOI-4 and unfortunately it is my least favourite of the entire series. For example, the fact that the USA can field 400+ full strength divisions during the war is nothing short of ridiculous IMHO. This is called “division spam” and the list could go on of the things that bug me about HOI-4

All of the HOI series have advantages and disadvantages but I feel that HOI-4 does not live up to its potential.

I fail to see how America being able to field 400 divisions makes HOI 4 fun. America certaintly could have fielded 400 divisions if they'd had the need to, but they didn't.

More importantly, how does this make HOI 4 unfun?

 

[Jays298]

Press and hold ALT and all you will see are front lines. Very handy for editing them.

I never played 2, but three was cool but I just couldn't trust the system to move troops for me nor manage a front line manually.

Hoi 4 fixes a lot of that by having fronts that are easy to make but a little annoying to maintain.

The civil war in Spain can be fun to play around in - three panzer divisions can actually have an outsized effect.

I find what works best for me is to have a field Marshall assigned to a front without sub army lines. And then use one or two armies within him as spearheads by giving them individual narrow fronts and very specific offensive lines.

 

[enigma_]

More importantly, how does this make HOI 4 unfun?

A very high lack of realism perhaps?

Players who prefer more historic campaigns based on "as close as possible" proximity to actual country military capability may prefer the previous HOI series compared with HOI-4

I read in a dev diary once that PDX wanted to make playing minor countires more interesting in HOI-4 (maybe Trinindad & Tobago?) and division spam was a key method of achieving this outcome. Personally, this has meant the game is more of a free-for-all than I would like.

 

[MR2]

Welcome Rain Man. I too was a big fan of HOI2. This HOI4 is a different animal. At first I did not like it at all. But with patience, practice, lots of testing, playing, revamping, etc. I've managed to win most games at successively harder levels and even starting to play against a Enhanced AI that is pretty darn tough (for me). The HOI4 Wiki is your friend - use it (start with Jargon) . Search youtube for HOI and view all the beginning videos you can stand. After discarding the immature and obnoxious ones, pay particular attention attention to whose videos help and subscribe to them. Play a little, then re-watch some, and then start on the intermediate videos. If you're an old fart like me, take notes. I have an accordion file of TTP (Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures. Search this Forum (first) and then ask questions. Most everyone here is most accommodating.

Figuring out the interface, where everything is, and finding/interpretation of the information is a key beginner skill. Next is figuring out the economy, trade, and research are the next skills to understand. Then combat - land, sea, and air each is different. Repetition is the key to learning and practice makes you proficient. Welcome!

The DLC's are a real value add to the game. Like everything else, there are sales on/around holidays - take advantage of them!

 

[Eh up me duck]

A very high lack of realism perhaps?

Players who prefer more historic campaigns based on "as close as possible" proximity to actual country military capability may prefer the previous HOI series compared with HOI-4

I read in a dev diary once that PDX wanted to make playing minor countires more interesting in HOI-4 (maybe Trinindad & Tobago?) and division spam was a key method of achieving this outcome. Personally, this has meant the game is more of a free-for-all than I would like.

But America could build 400 divisions IRL if they wanted to. How is that unrealistic?

The Soviet Army IRL had over 500 divisions by the end of WW2 ( source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Army ) the Americans could have easily matched that if they had the need to.

Sounds to me like you're complaining that HOI 4 is too realistic. Do you have any examples of fantasy worlds that you'd rather HOI 4 was similar to so that we know where you're coming from?

 

[enigma_]

fantasy worlds

.....

Yor are trying to prove what the USA would have done in WW2 with a link to the USSR military???

For your argument to be credible please actual PROOF of the capability of the USA during WW2 to produce 400+ divisions.

BTW, what about other nations besides the USA (e.g. Mexico) for realism for in-game context?

Sounds me like you have no idea what you are talking about with regards to actual military history

 

[SophieX]

For your argument to be credible please actual PROOF of the capability of the USA during WW2 to produce 400+ divisions.

The USA had the manpower and the industry to "equip" them. What cannot be prooved is the political will to do that.

But only "calculating" the USA was capable to field 400+ divisions ( whether this had made sense is a different question )

 

[enigma_]

But America could build 400 divisions IRL if they wanted to. How is that unrealistic?

The Soviet Army IRL had over 500 divisions by the end of WW2 ( source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Army ) the Americans could have easily matched that if they had the need to.

Sounds to me like you're complaining that HOI 4 is too realistic. Do you have any examples of fantasy worlds that you'd rather HOI 4 was similar to so that we know where you're coming from?

The USA had the manpower and the industry to "equip" them. What cannot be prooved is the political will to do that.

But only "calculating" the USA was capable to field 400+ divisions ( whether this had made sense is a different question )

ACTUAL PROOF:

“On the surface, it was hard to understand, given this pool of manpower, why there should be any manpower problem at all. Why, if Germany could maintain a military establishment of 9,835,000 or 10.9 percent of its population and Britain could support 3,885,000 or 8.2, did American manpower officials insist in late 1942 that 10,500,000 or only 7.8 percent would be the maximum force that the country could sustain without incurring serious dislocation to the American economy? [5] The problem as well as the answer stemmed basically from the fact that the Allies had from the beginning accepted the proposition that the single greatest tangible asset the United States brought to the coalition in World War II was the productive capacity of its industry. From the very beginning, American manpower calculations were closely correlated with the needs of war industry.”

AND

“In January 1943, G-3 warned that the 8,208,000-man Army might approach the limit of manpower available and that adjustments from within would have to be made to secure the kind of Army needed to win the war.”

AND

“In consonance with this economy drive, Marshall approved-in February-a new Army troop basis that called for an enlisted strength of 7,500,000 and between 120 and 125 divisions, for June 1944”

AND

“In late April the committee scaled down its estimates of the ultimate strength from 185 to 155 divisions and accepted an 8,200,000-man total as the planning ceiling figure-the "maximum strength" for the Army imposed by manpower limitations. It recommended that the U.S. Army, and especially the Air Forces, be developed to the maximum strength practicable within the estimated limitations on armed forces and be deployed as quickly as possible”

90-Division Gamble

I would strongly recommend you read the article in its entirety to see that the USA was definitely constrained in its ability to field full strength divisions. Any comparisons to the USSR is ridiculous (and laughable )

 

[SophieX]

ACTUAL PROOF:

Sorry, but this does not refute the capability to field 400+ divisions.
Your quotations only shows a political statement, not to field such a large number of divisions. Whether this "view" was indeed a will or only the statement to not upset the voters remains an assumption.